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War Dec, Kill Reports and New Modules discussion

First post First post
Author
Dwindlehop
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2012-05-03 01:35:24 UTC
Should the fueled shield booster be receiving bonuses to boost amount from ship bonuses and shield boost amplifiers?
Raze Zindonas
TYR.
Exodus.
#122 - 2012-05-03 01:38:34 UTC
The new drone damage mod fitting seems idk, not enough. for 40tf you should be getting a better damage %. Its going to be really tough to fit some ships with that mod.

:-/
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#123 - 2012-05-03 01:52:40 UTC
Raze Zindonas wrote:
The new drone damage mod fitting seems idk, not enough. for 40tf you should be getting a better damage %. Its going to be really tough to fit some ships with that mod.

:-/


It also doesnt double-dip like all the other damage boosters (rof + damage)

Basically its a terrible module at the moment.
Lithalnas
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#124 - 2012-05-03 02:25:28 UTC
The cost of wardecs is a little harsh don't you think?

50m starting plus 500k per person x1 = 50.5m
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/20120503021901.jpg
50M starting plus 500k per person (xxdeathxx) = 789.5m
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/20120503021125.jpg
50M starting plus 500k per person (Goonswarm) = 4.297 Billion
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/20120503020931.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/RipSeanVileRatSmith shoot at blue for Vile Rat http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73406

Goatfather
The Dark Space Initiative
Initiative Mercenaries
#125 - 2012-05-03 04:03:44 UTC
Lithalnas wrote:
The cost of wardecs is a little harsh don't you think?

50m starting plus 500k per person x1 = 50.5m
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/20120503021901.jpg
50M starting plus 500k per person (xxdeathxx) = 789.5m
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/20120503021125.jpg
50M starting plus 500k per person (Goonswarm) = 4.297 Billion
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/20120503020931.jpg





And so... it ends....


I hope not...
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#126 - 2012-05-03 04:09:09 UTC
Goonswarm and Death have thousands of pod pilots, you're asking concord to allow aggression against thousands of pilots.

Of course its going to be expensive. You're paying for targets, lots of targets, lots of targets means lots of money.

Besides you can go to null space where you can shoot them for FREE.
Goatfather
The Dark Space Initiative
Initiative Mercenaries
#127 - 2012-05-03 04:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Goatfather
Soon Shin wrote:
Goonswarm and Death have thousands of pod pilots, you're asking concord to allow aggression against thousands of pilots.

Of course its going to be expensive. You're paying for targets, lots of targets, lots of targets means lots of money.

Besides you can go to null space where you can shoot them for FREE.



I disagree. Size shouldn't = immunity via game mechanics.


Not saying I'd dec Goon etc. But the system in general, and even when decs are placed. If it is a contract to achieve such and such goal at a price like that, and the ability for targets to dock up and ride out... its over.

Im not the only one who feels this way, im just frustrated enough to get on the forums.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#128 - 2012-05-03 04:29:45 UTC
Goatfather wrote:
Soon Shin wrote:
Goonswarm and Death have thousands of pod pilots, you're asking concord to allow aggression against thousands of pilots.

Of course its going to be expensive. You're paying for targets, lots of targets, lots of targets means lots of money.

Besides you can go to null space where you can shoot them for FREE.



I disagree. Size shouldn't = immunity via game mechanics.


Not saying I'd dec Goon etc. But the system in general, and even when decs are placed. If it is a contract to achieve such and such goal at a price like that, and the ability for targets to dock up and ride out... its over.

Im not the only one who feels this way, im just frustrated enough to get on the forums.


Then what do you think is a fair price to war dec goons? Can you measure how much each player should be worth?
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#129 - 2012-05-03 04:30:17 UTC
Size should not cause the wardec cost to scale linearly - that's fundamentally unbalanced given how EVE works. If size is a factor, then there needs to be diminishing returns (such as cuberoot() or quadroot() scaling).

And I have to give a big thumbs-down to any idea of introducing new T1 modules which do not come with BPOs. Why should these modules be "special" compared to the other thousand T1 meta-zero modules? If you're only going to do them as BPC drops then those BPCs should be for the meta 1-4 or faction variants. Not the base meta-zero item.
Goatfather
The Dark Space Initiative
Initiative Mercenaries
#130 - 2012-05-03 04:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Goatfather
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Size should not cause the wardec cost to scale linearly - that's fundamentally unbalanced given how EVE works.


This ^^

If anything size after a certain point should cap/reduce cost.
Large size should = ability to defend

Furthermore IF this system stays in place all corps/alliances in game should have to pay concord a fee for concords protection, in which that could scale costs... but I made a post about that in the actual dev blog..

I dunno im to tired atm...
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#131 - 2012-05-03 04:50:24 UTC
You must admit that current wardec fees are simply too cheap. 50 million to wardec an alliance for a week, thats like mining for 2 hours in highsec or an hour of missioning. With the ease of making isk, costs must come up to compensate for inflation.
Lithalnas
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#132 - 2012-05-03 04:51:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lithalnas
A 70 account alliance which uses all 3 members for each account can have 200 members in the alliance, that means it cost 50mil + 105 mil to wardec them. So a relatively small alliance can bump its cost to 155m a week just by padding its members. There are 100 alliances in game with more than 200 members.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/memberCount

50mil is too cheap, but thats war 1, war 2 is 100, war 3 is 150, war 4 is 200 and if they have a war from someone else at the same time it goes up by an additional bracket.

https://www.facebook.com/RipSeanVileRatSmith shoot at blue for Vile Rat http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73406

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#133 - 2012-05-03 05:03:10 UTC
Is the new resistance-shifting module actually named 'Armour Adaptive Hardener'? There's already an 'Adaptive Nano Plating' and an 'Energised Adaptive Nano Membrane'.

Active modules are named hardeners and omni-resist modules are named adaptive.

'Armour Adaptive Hardener' sounds like a capacitor-using (hardener) omni resist (adaptive), but it acts differently to omni-resist modules?
LaserzPewPew
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#134 - 2012-05-03 05:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: LaserzPewPew
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Drone damage module - the main reason to add this was to have all the main weapon types have a corresponding damage amplifying module. Plus, it's not like drones are overwhelming anything at the moment, so giving them a bit of love is ok. It's a low slot module. I'm at home, and I can't remember the exact fitting requirements, will post them tomorrow (for this and other modules).




The new drone damage modifier has a CPU cost of 40. Drone boats have very constricted CPU's and the new CPU rigs will affect them the least because of it. Please look into this.

Also, I'm sure this has been said, but the module itself increases drone dps by 12%. Running the math, this looks very lackluster. The BCU, Mag stab, and Heat Sink are a 22.9% increase to damage. I understand drone boats get a substantial boost to damage, but like you said, drones aren't exactly shifting the metagame at the moment. Could we pick up some insight?
Goatfather
The Dark Space Initiative
Initiative Mercenaries
#135 - 2012-05-03 05:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Goatfather
Soon Shin wrote:
You must admit that current wardec fees are simply too cheap. 50 million to wardec an alliance for a week, thats like mining for 2 hours in highsec or an hour of missioning. With the ease of making isk, costs must come up to compensate for inflation.


First In no way am I trying to spit on the work and time that was put into these new systems, I thank you guys for all your time and effort, that is one of the many reasons I play EVE still to this day, and trust me there are many things that have changed since I started early '04 to now that I dislike A LOT.

but...

Let's be straight and honest no candy coating.
The entire present war system is "cheap", as in low quality on many levels, cost and how cost is determined being one.
The new system should have caps, so that "large" groups are not immune, otherwise it will have a major ripple effect.


Also the present system isn't all that bad, we spend 400+ mil on decs weekly, plus contracts blah blah, and sometimes net very few kills per those contracts.... The present cost system isnt all that flawed, it could have used fine tuning, not a complete over haul.


IMO

This new war system should be done in stages.

Stage 1: LOCK the war system, evaluate loopholes, exploits, etc, fine tune. -- Listen to feedback --
Stage 2: Fine tune costs system, evaluate loopholes, exploits, etc, fine tune. -- Listen to feedback --
Stage 3: Evaluate all systems, listen to feedback from actual high-sec alliances/corps that utilize the system FULL TIME
Stage 4: Fine tune (dont wait 5 years to re-vise the system, get it right, and be done with it so other things can be resolved)

Have CSM round table alliance/corp leads from well known HS groups, which is very simple, we've been down this road already.


and now onto this part

Soon Shin wrote:
thats like mining for 2 hours in highsec or an hour of missioning. With the ease of making isk, costs must come up to compensate for inflation.


MERCS do not make much money outside kills/contracts. This is to say if we consider each merc has 1 account, certainly some of us like myself have many, but typical Joe Blow might not have time/resources to make the money to make a start-up MERC corp, thus he can not play the game the way he'd like to experience it. Experienced players may have alts/access to WH/Missions/Incursions,0.0 sure, but let's not take this beyond the basic. Because once passed basic, a cost system doesn't matter.

Time is also a factor, especially for groups that need all their pilots. Not everyone has time to devote to being a combat pilot, and a pver, some depend on PVP for isk.

There are a lot of factors to consider outside of typical assumption, assuming is easy, fact finding is not.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2012-05-03 05:48:16 UTC
Well those prices will certainly kill just about all of the merc corp out there.

I don't charge much to go after people, but people will not pay people anymore to go after somebody if the have to hand over a couple hundred mil more.

50 to dec a corp is good, 500k per member is a bit steep. I see alts being used to buff member counts.

The idea to get people to move out of highsec will become mute since it will be safer to live there now. No small war dec corp will be able to survive. If any I see the really small corps suffering the most from this since they will then be the prime targets of wardecs.



"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2012-05-03 06:06:05 UTC
Rynnik wrote:
I hope there is some sort of 'slim' option for cargo bays so when you are fighting and want to monitor remaining cap boosters etc you can do so with minimal wasted space. Bonus if it could be made even smaller then the current TQ cargo bays.


Just type 800 into the cargo bay filter. Presto.. only items with 800 (like cap booster 800) will show.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-05-03 06:09:54 UTC
That pricing on war decs is absolutely ********. Characters not actively training a skill should not count towards the total when figuring out the cost to ward dec a corp/alliance. That will take care of entities filling the ranks to avoid a war dec.

There is several ways to come up with a nice scaling solution. Didn't you guys think at all on this one? Only thing you have done is just handed out tinfoil hats to everyone so they can say that goons were behind the mechanic change to make them immune to war decs.

There is no way that current mechanic should be allowed to hit TQ at all.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#139 - 2012-05-03 06:13:08 UTC
That drone damage module is a joke. Every drone ship out there is already strapped for CPU and the module has a very high CPU requirement, just like the other drone upgrade modules that never see the light of day for any actual combat. Also drone rigs take away your CPU.

What the hell are you guys smoking up there?!
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#140 - 2012-05-03 06:42:27 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
Goatfather wrote:
Soon Shin wrote:
Goonswarm and Death have thousands of pod pilots, you're asking concord to allow aggression against thousands of pilots.

Of course its going to be expensive. You're paying for targets, lots of targets, lots of targets means lots of money.

Besides you can go to null space where you can shoot them for FREE.



I disagree. Size shouldn't = immunity via game mechanics.


Not saying I'd dec Goon etc. But the system in general, and even when decs are placed. If it is a contract to achieve such and such goal at a price like that, and the ability for targets to dock up and ride out... its over.

Im not the only one who feels this way, im just frustrated enough to get on the forums.


Then what do you think is a fair price to war dec goons? Can you measure how much each player should be worth?


Dynamic scale as progressive taxing reverted the more pilots the less per person charge.