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War Dec, Kill Reports and New Modules discussion

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Author
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#501 - 2012-05-26 10:53:29 UTC
Quesa wrote:

I didn't notice (correct me if I'm wrong) an NPC cost associated for defending another Alliance. Won't this open up the field for defender corp griefing and dodging the war-dec cost by simply signing up to defend another alliance?


Yes, but does it matter? You can't pick which corps decide to be the aggressor against your target. So if you try to go the "get hi-sec wars for cheap by being an ally", you're going to have limited selection of potential wardecs to pick from.

(I still think there should be a 10-20M ISK NPC fee, paid by the defender, for each ally brought into the war. Maybe even a 5-10M ISK NPC fee for the ally to apply to participate in a war. Mostly as an ISK sink and a minor limiter on the number of allies brought in. But I don't feel there should be limits on # of allies accepted or the # of wars that you can join as an ally. Not until the system matures and we can cancel ally contracts and ally contracts have contracted time limits of 2-7 days with renewals.)
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#502 - 2012-05-26 11:14:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
The wars in the 'all wars' and corporation's war history should also show allies. Currently this is only show for the 'our war' tab of the corp panel. So basically only the parties involved are able to see the current allies, but I think this should be publicly available for obvious reasons.

Also please add some way for corporations to track which Director or CEO handled wardec related actions. At the very least add their name in the War mail.

Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Quesa wrote:

I didn't notice (correct me if I'm wrong) an NPC cost associated for defending another Alliance. Won't this open up the field for defender corp griefing and dodging the war-dec cost by simply signing up to defend another alliance?


Yes, but does it matter? You can't pick which corps decide to be the aggressor against your target. So if you try to go the "get hi-sec wars for cheap by being an ally", you're going to have limited selection of potential wardecs to pick from.

(I still think there should be a 10-20M ISK NPC fee, paid by the defender, for each ally brought into the war. Maybe even a 5-10M ISK NPC fee for the ally to apply to participate in a war. Mostly as an ISK sink and a minor limiter on the number of allies brought in. But I don't feel there should be limits on # of allies accepted or the # of wars that you can join as an ally. Not until the system matures and we can cancel ally contracts and ally contracts have contracted time limits of 2-7 days with renewals.)


I think you guys seriously overestimate the 'problem' here. Could one of the devs please poke CCP Diagoras to share some statistics with the community on the impact of the new war dec system?

Also for the attacker having to deal with numerous opportunist 'allies' (that won't be any useful for the defender other then chaff, "If you're good at something, never do it for free"), is one of the consequences that come with a bad choice in wardec victim. Making choices and having to deal with their consequences is EXACTLY what makes this new wardec system such a big improvement.

Aggressor corporations NEED to run the risk of pissing off a corporation that isn't impressed, calls the war mutual and then swamps the attacker with pesky allies. If you don't want that to happen, either behave nicely, or pick better targets. Besides, any decent corp should be able to deal with most of these some opportunists effortlessly.

Adding a substantial cost to accepting allies is 100% counterproductive. It be like adding an entry-fee in Crimewatch for people who want to shoot a criminal or a suspect. It totally ruins the 'make-yourself-a-target' deterrent mechanic that is supposed to act as a balance for the aggressor's huge advantage of initiative.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#503 - 2012-05-26 15:24:46 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
The wars in the 'all wars' and corporation's war history should also show allies. Currently this is only show for the 'our war' tab of the corp panel. So basically only the parties involved are able to see the current allies, but I think this should be publicly available for obvious reasons.


it is available for all.

I'm guessing you're a director so you'll get the window to send your ally offer to the defender if you click the ally button, but the mouse hint tells you how many allies are at the war.

If you double click on the entry you'll get a war report and there's also a ally button you can click to see the allies at that war.

If you're not a director, the ally button will pop up a list of allies.

It's on my backlog to make it easier for directors to see the list of allies from the war list Big smile


By the way, the team is gathering data on wars.

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#504 - 2012-05-26 16:10:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
The wars in the 'all wars' and corporation's war history should also show allies. Currently this is only show for the 'our war' tab of the corp panel. So basically only the parties involved are able to see the current allies, but I think this should be publicly available for obvious reasons.


it is available for all.

I'm guessing you're a director so you'll get the window to send your ally offer to the defender if you click the ally button, but the mouse hint tells you how many allies are at the war.

If you double click on the entry you'll get a war report and there's also a ally button you can click to see the allies at that war.

If you're not a director, the ally button will pop up a list of allies.

It's on my backlog to make it easier for directors to see the list of allies from the war list Big smile

By the way, the team is gathering data on wars.


Ah I see it now, VERY NICE!!! I was confused mainly because of the nested view of 'our wars' showing the allies and was looking for something similar with the other wars. Lol Perhaps adding more of a button on the entry for opening the war report?

While I'm totally against public killboards for the amount of effortless intel and the incentive to stupid e-peen behaviour they provide, I'll admit that the war-report looks very good.

But the goal of setting empire ablaze certainly seems to work. There are so many wars, the '50 most recent wars' only goes back a single day. It would be nice if we could scroll back a bit further then that, perhaps similar as to how we can jump back to earlier entries in the transactions log of the Wallet.

I hope to see that data shared with the community. I'd love to know if any corporations are using the 'mutual' option to nail the attackers to the wall Lol

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#505 - 2012-05-26 16:16:13 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
The wars in the 'all wars' and corporation's war history should also show allies. Currently this is only show for the 'our war' tab of the corp panel. So basically only the parties involved are able to see the current allies, but I think this should be publicly available for obvious reasons.


it is available for all.

I'm guessing you're a director so you'll get the window to send your ally offer to the defender if you click the ally button, but the mouse hint tells you how many allies are at the war.

If you double click on the entry you'll get a war report and there's also a ally button you can click to see the allies at that war.

If you're not a director, the ally button will pop up a list of allies.

It's on my backlog to make it easier for directors to see the list of allies from the war list Big smile

By the way, the team is gathering data on wars.


Ah I see it now, VERY NICE!!! I was confused mainly because of the nested view of 'our wars' showing the allies and didn't see something similar with the other wars. Lol

While I'm totally against public killboards for the amount of effortless intel and the incentive to stupid e-peen behaviour they provide, I'll admit that the war-report looks very good.

But the goal of setting empire ablaze certainly seems to work. There are so many wars, the '50 most recent wars' only goes back a single day. It would be nice if we could scroll back a bit further then that, perhaps similar as to how we can jump back to earlier entries in the transactions log of the Wallet.

I hope to see that data shared with the community. I'd love to know if any corporations are using the 'mutual' option to nail the attackers to the wall Lol


Thank you:) I'm also very happy about the War Report!

We didn't want to clutter the "All wars" list too much, that's why we don't list allies directly there while "Our Wars" is something that's more informal to you, I guess, so we display everything there.

We also have in our backlog to be able to see older wars than the 50 most recent! It used to be so that you'd open the All Wars tab and nothing would show up until you had searched for a specific corp/alliance so displaying 50 most recent wars was just our first try.

In my opinion the data won't be too useful for everybody until the new system has been out for a few weeks, my guess is that the first week is more of people just testing how everything works and such.

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#506 - 2012-05-26 16:23:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
I do think however that the kill-categories are a bit poorly organized. Having T1 cruisers, HACs and T3 in a single category doesn't makes it very useful. Better would be allowing the main categories to fold out further into subcategories.

And perhaps adding a button on the entry for opening the war-report? It shames me to say it, but I wasn't aware of the war-report, simply because it didn't occur to me to try double-clicking it. And the entries don't have any context menu's either.

I agree on the data, though. It's just that CCP isn't always keen on providing actual statistics for ongoing discussions in the the community.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#507 - 2012-05-26 16:25:29 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
I do think however that the kill-categories are a bit poorly organized. Having T1 cruisers, HACs and T3 in a single category doesn't makes it very useful. Better would be allowing the main categories to fold out further into subcategories.

And perhaps adding a button on the entry for opening the war-report? It shames me to say it, but I wasn't aware of the war-report, simply because it didn't occur to me to try double-clicking it. And the entries don't have any context menu's either.


whaaaaat! your new mantra should me "when in doubt, double click"

we're trying to stay away from too much right clicking Blink

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#508 - 2012-05-26 16:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
I do think however that the kill-categories are a bit poorly organized. Having T1 cruisers, HACs and T3 in a single category doesn't makes it very useful. Better would be allowing the main categories to fold out further into subcategories.

And perhaps adding a button on the entry for opening the war-report? It shames me to say it, but I wasn't aware of the war-report, simply because it didn't occur to me to try double-clicking it. And the entries don't have any context menu's either.


whaaaaat! your new mantra should me "when in doubt, double click"

we're trying to stay away from too much right clicking Blink


Nit-picking here: Double-clicking on the entries opening the war-report a tad of loading-lag feels a bit unresponsive. So I still think adding a little war-report button to the right would be nice. That would also take away right-clicking. Besides, I like the new wardec icons, they look very good.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#509 - 2012-05-26 16:38:50 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
I do think however that the kill-categories are a bit poorly organized. Having T1 cruisers, HACs and T3 in a single category doesn't makes it very useful. Better would be allowing the main categories to fold out further into subcategories.

And perhaps adding a button on the entry for opening the war-report? It shames me to say it, but I wasn't aware of the war-report, simply because it didn't occur to me to try double-clicking it. And the entries don't have any context menu's either.


whaaaaat! your new mantra should me "when in doubt, double click"

we're trying to stay away from too much right clicking Blink


Nit-picking here: Double-clicking on the entries opening the war-report a tad of loading-lag feels a bit unresponsive. So I still think adding a little war-report button to the right would be nice. That would also take away right-clicking. Besides, I like the new wardec icons, they look very good.


hey I fixed the loading lag (I think) - you'll get the new version on Tuesday!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#510 - 2012-05-26 16:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Another good idea would be adding fold categories to the war history for ongoing wars and finished wars. Just look at RvB's war history and try to find their open war against all the other closed ones, to see why this would be nice.

Also, older pre-Inferno kills are available in the war report, but they don't seem to always be added tot he graph. How far back are these added anyway?

And what does the 0 ISK, left opposed to the total kill value, stand for? Mouseover tooltips!

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#511 - 2012-05-26 16:46:06 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Another good idea would be adding fold categories to the war history for ongoing wars and finished wars. Just look at RvB's war history and try to find their open war against all the other closed ones, to see why this would be nice.

Also, older pre-Inferno kills are available in the war report, but they don't seem to always be added tot he graph. How far back are these added anyway?


If you search for them in "All Wars" you get only active wars. We wanted to list the whole thing when you show info.

Old kill reports are in the war report yes, but we didn't have ISK value in kill reports until Tuesday and that's what displayed in the graph.

I've really want RvB to start a new war so they'll have more accurate data, and so that red isn't colored blue and blue colored red Sad

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#512 - 2012-05-26 16:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
Another good idea would be adding fold categories to the war history for ongoing wars and finished wars. Just look at RvB's war history and try to find their open war against all the other closed ones, to see why this would be nice.

Also, older pre-Inferno kills are available in the war report, but they don't seem to always be added tot he graph. How far back are these added anyway?


If you search for them in "All Wars" you get only active wars. We wanted to list the whole thing when you show info.

Old kill reports are in the war report yes, but we didn't have ISK value in kill reports until Tuesday and that's what displayed in the graph.

I've really want RvB to start a new war so they'll have more accurate data, and so that red isn't colored blue and blue colored red Sad


Will those ISK values of old kill reports be added retroactively? That would be pretty awesome.

But looking at RvB's prolific slaughter, I notice it's not hard to reach a point where the kills are no longer shown (50 kills or so?). Is this going to be extended, searchable/filterable, etc? IMHO too much easy access to info like that sucks, but it's not like most of it isn't already available on public killboards anyway. Evil

As for the pwetty war-report button... please?! Cry

I bet though if you'd ask nicely Mangala will perhaps even consider rebooting the RvB war for Inferno. They owe CCP one for showing the RvB splash ad the very day they wardecced EVE- Uni (and they got their new allaince logos).

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#513 - 2012-05-26 16:57:24 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
Another good idea would be adding fold categories to the war history for ongoing wars and finished wars. Just look at RvB's war history and try to find their open war against all the other closed ones, to see why this would be nice.

Also, older pre-Inferno kills are available in the war report, but they don't seem to always be added tot he graph. How far back are these added anyway?


If you search for them in "All Wars" you get only active wars. We wanted to list the whole thing when you show info.

Old kill reports are in the war report yes, but we didn't have ISK value in kill reports until Tuesday and that's what displayed in the graph.

I've really want RvB to start a new war so they'll have more accurate data, and so that red isn't colored blue and blue colored red Sad


Will those ISK values of old kill reports be added retroactively? That would be pretty awesome.

But looking at RvB's prolific slaughter, I notice it's not hard to reach a point where the kills are no longer shown (50 kills or so?). Is this going to be extended, searchable/filterable, etc? IMHO too much easy access to info like that sucks, but it's not like most of it isn't already available on public killboards anyway. Evil

As for the pwetty war-report button... please?! Cry

I bet though if you'd ask nicely Mangala will perhaps even consider rebooting the RvB war for Inferno. They owe CCP one for showing the RvB splash add the very day they wardecced EVE- Uni.



no those are ISK values at the time of the kill so it's not really possible to go back in time with it.

You can see all kills, I don't know what you're talking about with only 50 kills..

If you want to see a list of all kills at once, you have to uncheck the show graph box, because we can't have an "all kills" option in the graph because it would ruin the display of it, obviously.

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#514 - 2012-05-26 17:02:57 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:



no those are ISK values at the time of the kill so it's not really possible to go back in time with it.

You can see all kills, I don't know what you're talking about with only 50 kills..

If you want to see a list of all kills at once, you have to uncheck the show graph box, because we can't have an "all kills" option in the graph because it would ruin the display of it, obviously.


Uhm, graph or no graph, the list of entries below it is pretty finite in the number shown. Ofcourse for RvB for examply you can't really go and display 50.000 kills in that list. But with the currently limited number of kills show, I can't even go back and see what they killed yesterday.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#515 - 2012-05-26 17:05:22 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
Another good idea would be adding fold categories to the war history for ongoing wars and finished wars. Just look at RvB's war history and try to find their open war against all the other closed ones, to see why this would be nice.

Also, older pre-Inferno kills are available in the war report, but they don't seem to always be added tot he graph. How far back are these added anyway?


If you search for them in "All Wars" you get only active wars. We wanted to list the whole thing when you show info.

Old kill reports are in the war report yes, but we didn't have ISK value in kill reports until Tuesday and that's what displayed in the graph.

I've really want RvB to start a new war so they'll have more accurate data, and so that red isn't colored blue and blue colored red Sad

Can you open up two war reports at once on Sisi i could not when I tested it a min ago.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#516 - 2012-05-26 17:11:41 UTC
Pre-Inferno there was also a nice timeline showing kills&losses, I think it was on the Kill Report tab of the Corporation panel. This seems to have disappeared. Will it return at a later point as a part of the war report?

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#517 - 2012-05-26 17:14:43 UTC
you can only open one War Report at a time

you should be able to see all kills, I don't understand why you're only seeing 50

and I have no idea what timeline you're talking about. there were 4 tabs under Wars pre inferno
- our wars
- all wars
- kills
- losses

I combined kills and losses to war reports and added a drop down box to choose between kills or losses so no change except fewer tabs

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#518 - 2012-05-26 17:19:57 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
you can only open one War Report at a time

you should be able to see all kills, I don't understand why you're only seeing 50

and I have no idea what timeline you're talking about. there were 4 tabs under Wars pre inferno
- our wars
- all wars
- kills
- losses

I combined kills and losses to war reports and added a drop down box to choose between kills or losses so no change except fewer tabs

Graph like on the war reports would be a great forth tab

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#519 - 2012-05-26 17:21:15 UTC
Salpun wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
you can only open one War Report at a time

you should be able to see all kills, I don't understand why you're only seeing 50

and I have no idea what timeline you're talking about. there were 4 tabs under Wars pre inferno
- our wars
- all wars
- kills
- losses

I combined kills and losses to war reports and added a drop down box to choose between kills or losses so no change except fewer tabs

Graph like on the war reports would be a great forth tab


graph for all corp kills/losses?

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#520 - 2012-05-26 17:24:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
you can only open one War Report at a time

you should be able to see all kills, I don't understand why you're only seeing 50

and I have no idea what timeline you're talking about. there were 4 tabs under Wars pre inferno
- our wars
- all wars
- kills
- losses

I combined kills and losses to war reports and added a drop down box to choose between kills or losses so no change except fewer tabs

Graph like on the war reports would be a great forth tab


graph for all corp kills/losses?

yes like the war report has so it can be tracked would be better over time though like most War reports have.

Most trackers have a time element to it
we killed two ships 2 days ago and lost 3 to day and there isk value type story.

Our wars needs to show past wars then have a green back ground for the active ones.

Edit:

Searching for an alliane/ corp in the "All Wars" tab in the corp interface does not show the clicked results this is on sisi do I need to bug report this?


Number of entrys show or how far back the list goes is needed

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.