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Warfare & Tactics

 
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More FW changes on SiSi

First post
Author
Andiedeath
Konvict Cartel
Solyaris Chtonium
#741 - 2012-05-16 05:24:17 UTC
Just to add... Many of the people that have joined so far have ground their rep from -5.0 with the appropriate faction to +0.5 to get in... Hate to say it but there are plenty of peeps interested in these new changes. Doomsdayers just need to take a step back... Or Register for the Apocolypse Afterparty on facebook... One of the 2. :P

As Mike said, the future of the Militia's will be written by the old leaders that stick around and the new people that come... And there are plenty of those new players...

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#742 - 2012-05-16 11:21:14 UTC
Andiedeath wrote:
Just to add... Many of the people that have joined so far have ground their rep from -5.0 with the appropriate faction to +0.5 to get in... Hate to say it but there are plenty of peeps interested in these new changes. Doomsdayers just need to take a step back... Or Register for the Apocolypse Afterparty on facebook... One of the 2. :P

As Mike said, the future of the Militia's will be written by the old leaders that stick around and the new people that come... And there are plenty of those new players...
I keep hearing things like "Plex farming" from everybody I talk to. Getting a bit concerned, tbh. Fearing massive amounts of offensive plexing in far off systems that don't matter, no defensive plexing, no fights since it will be more efficient to go for isk instead. We'll see what happens soon enough.


BolsterBomb
Hell House
Hell Dawn
#743 - 2012-05-16 11:36:11 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Andiedeath wrote:
Just to add... Many of the people that have joined so far have ground their rep from -5.0 with the appropriate faction to +0.5 to get in... Hate to say it but there are plenty of peeps interested in these new changes. Doomsdayers just need to take a step back... Or Register for the Apocolypse Afterparty on facebook... One of the 2. :P

As Mike said, the future of the Militia's will be written by the old leaders that stick around and the new people that come... And there are plenty of those new players...
I keep hearing things like "Plex farming" from everybody I talk to. Getting a bit concerned, tbh. Fearing massive amounts of offensive plexing in far off systems that don't matter, no defensive plexing, no fights since it will be more efficient to go for isk instead. We'll see what happens soon enough.





But now you have a better option to prevent them from making isk...kick them out of the plex

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#744 - 2012-05-16 11:44:26 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
I keep hearing things like "Plex farming" from everybody I talk to. Getting a bit concerned, tbh. Fearing massive amounts of offensive plexing in far off systems that don't matter, no defensive plexing, no fights since it will be more efficient to go for isk instead. We'll see what happens soon enough.


*ahem*. C'mon now, no head starts on it now. Wait for Inferno and a solid anecdote before you make the thread.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#745 - 2012-05-16 13:12:59 UTC
Andiedeath wrote:
Just to add... Many of the people that have joined so far have ground their rep from -5.0 with the appropriate faction to +0.5 to get in... Hate to say it but there are plenty of peeps interested in these new changes. Doomsdayers just need to take a step back... Or Register for the Apocolypse Afterparty on facebook... One of the 2. :P

As Mike said, the future of the Militia's will be written by the old leaders that stick around and the new people that come... And there are plenty of those new players...

Problem is that if you are right and the militias all get a massive surge of active pilots due to the new farm-friendly mechanics then the FW we have bled for and moaned about the past 3 years ceases to exist .. hell it will do so even without a surge due to the farms necessitating blobs to keep them pristine.

We are already close to having zero solo/small-gang fights these days .. in the years after it kicked off, majority of fights was <10 man per side with big romps on weekends only (almost) .. add your hundreds on all sides and no fight will be with less than 50 per side, lockouts take care of that as offense will always aim for superiority from the start due to not being able to reship.

I seriously miss the days when I could take a Punisher or Nomen out and fight 1-3 people in contests of skill and determination over the right to irrelevant VP .. "GF"'s were abundant then. Now you need to check Titan's for people waiting to drop you, keep a looooong list of all the enemy neutral boosters/scouts and then hope to find an enemy that doesn't outnumber you 4:1.

What I and most others have lobbied for since 2010 (current trend started back then) is mechanics that encouraged staying small and challenged the individual on an hourly/daily basis .. problem of course is that CCP didn't read anything FW related until last December onwards and at that point in time all people could talk about was how poor they were (FW LP devalued in preceeding year) and wouldn't it be great if there was pay involved and some effect of taking space ..

FW truly held promise beyond anything CCP has released since I started playing; Small scale fighting, ideal RP/PF/Lore platform .. purpose. What it is about to become is a blobby farm fest with almost no redeeming features .. even the once :awesome: size restriction on plexes has been killed of by the new pirate/navy hulls and T3 boosters.

R.I.P Factional Warfare. Thank you for teaching me which is the pointy end.

PS: How is that for Doom Calling? Do I win something!!!! Big smile
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#746 - 2012-05-16 13:43:20 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Andiedeath wrote:
Just to add... Many of the people that have joined so far have ground their rep from -5.0 with the appropriate faction to +0.5 to get in... Hate to say it but there are plenty of peeps interested in these new changes. Doomsdayers just need to take a step back... Or Register for the Apocolypse Afterparty on facebook... One of the 2. :P

As Mike said, the future of the Militia's will be written by the old leaders that stick around and the new people that come... And there are plenty of those new players...

Problem is that if you are right and the militias all get a massive surge of active pilots due to the new farm-friendly mechanics then the FW we have bled for and moaned about the past 3 years ceases to exist .. hell it will do so even without a surge due to the farms necessitating blobs to keep them pristine.

We are already close to having zero solo/small-gang fights these days .. in the years after it kicked off, majority of fights was <10 man per side with big romps on weekends only (almost) .. add your hundreds on all sides and no fight will be with less than 50 per side, lockouts take care of that as offense will always aim for superiority from the start due to not being able to reship.

I seriously miss the days when I could take a Punisher or Nomen out and fight 1-3 people in contests of skill and determination over the right to irrelevant VP .. "GF"'s were abundant then. Now you need to check Titan's for people waiting to drop you, keep a looooong list of all the enemy neutral boosters/scouts and then hope to find an enemy that doesn't outnumber you 4:1.

What I and most others have lobbied for since 2010 (current trend started back then) is mechanics that encouraged staying small and challenged the individual on an hourly/daily basis .. problem of course is that CCP didn't read anything FW related until last December onwards and at that point in time all people could talk about was how poor they were (FW LP devalued in preceeding year) and wouldn't it be great if there was pay involved and some effect of taking space ..

FW truly held promise beyond anything CCP has released since I started playing; Small scale fighting, ideal RP/PF/Lore platform .. purpose. What it is about to become is a blobby farm fest with almost no redeeming features .. even the once :awesome: size restriction on plexes has been killed of by the new pirate/navy hulls and T3 boosters.

R.I.P Factional Warfare. Thank you for teaching me which is the pointy end.

PS: How is that for Doom Calling? Do I win something!!!! Big smile


They actually did a good thing with the Crucible plex changes. It increased small gang a lot. I think they need to tweak capture times down to 3x current, but we will see.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#747 - 2012-05-16 14:22:02 UTC
Hrett wrote:


They actually did a good thing with the Crucible plex changes. It increased small gang a lot. I think they need to tweak capture times down to 3x current, but we will see.


Uhmm .. more times spinning buttons ? Three times more ?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#748 - 2012-05-16 14:38:42 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Andiedeath wrote:
Just to add... Many of the people that have joined so far have ground their rep from -5.0 with the appropriate faction to +0.5 to get in... Hate to say it but there are plenty of peeps interested in these new changes. Doomsdayers just need to take a step back... Or Register for the Apocolypse Afterparty on facebook... One of the 2. :P

As Mike said, the future of the Militia's will be written by the old leaders that stick around and the new people that come... And there are plenty of those new players...
I keep hearing things like "Plex farming" from everybody I talk to. Getting a bit concerned, tbh. Fearing massive amounts of offensive plexing in far off systems that don't matter, no defensive plexing, no fights since it will be more efficient to go for isk instead. We'll see what happens soon enough.





Well I think a big part of the question is how much of a part will the "lp upgrades" play in the 16x multiplier. If by you doing a plex in my system I lose the lp I put into it and therefore may have to pay 2xs as much in the lp store we may see these offensive plexes being defended.

The problem is CCP has not spelled out how much the lp upgrades really count toward the 16x multiplier.

Now lets say minmatar have 50 systems. If the 16x multiplier is more dependant on the numer of systems you have sov in and not very dependant on how much lp is invested in those systems then they will not upgrade many of those systems. Because the updrades themselves are fairly worthless. This will mean that the minmatar will not uprade those systems and therefore will not really be losing anything if I go and plex them. Hence there won't be much fighting until the actual system is in jeopardy of flipping and then it can be addressed 35 hours later.

From the amarr side I will have no additional incentive to plex in a system that was upgraded if the amount of isk invested is not the main driving force in determining the 16x multiplier. Therefore I were a greedy carebear I will go ahead and get my lp from a system that is not upgraded and unlikely to get a pvp response because I am not taking lp from them.

However if the lp upgrades play a very very large role in the 16x multiplier both sides will have a bigger incentive to focus their plexing on those systems and fight for those systems.


I make this point here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1305327#post1305327
and in the next post.



Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#749 - 2012-05-16 14:42:27 UTC
Lock out wrote:
Hrett wrote:


They actually did a good thing with the Crucible plex changes. It increased small gang a lot. I think they need to tweak capture times down to 3x current, but we will see.


Uhmm .. more times spinning buttons ? Three times more ?



Inferno is going to require 5xs the button spinning to flip a system. Haven't you heard the advertisement "Faction war now with 5xs the button spinning" Smile

Hrett thinks 3xs the button spinning is plenty. I think 1/6 the button spinning is plenty.



Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
Plexodus
#750 - 2012-05-16 14:48:29 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Lock out wrote:
Hrett wrote:


They actually did a good thing with the Crucible plex changes. It increased small gang a lot. I think they need to tweak capture times down to 3x current, but we will see.


Uhmm .. more times spinning buttons ? Three times more ?



Inferno is going to require 5xs the button spinning to flip a system. Haven't you heard the advertisement "Faction war now with 5xs the button spinning" Smile

Hrett thinks 3xs the button spinning is plenty. I think 1/6 the button spinning is plenty.






nanofited dramiel spins faster BTW ..... can I flip system by spining my ships in hangar?
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#751 - 2012-05-16 14:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lock out
Cearain wrote:
Lock out wrote:
Hrett wrote:


They actually did a good thing with the Crucible plex changes. It increased small gang a lot. I think they need to tweak capture times down to 3x current, but we will see.


Uhmm .. more times spinning buttons ? Three times more ?



Inferno is going to require 5xs the button spinning to flip a system. Haven't you heard the advertisement "Faction war now with 5xs the button spinning" Smile

Hrett thinks 3xs the button spinning is plenty. I think 1/6 the button spinning is plenty.




I think tagging them should be enough. FOr example, how awesome would it be if it would be 10 man plexes, where a 10 man fleet will start a timer in, let's say enaluri, then have to tag 10 buttons across FW area and get back to Enaluri in an hr and tag the plex again in order to get victory points . That would actually, y'know .. .encourage roaming.

Granted, that beeing said, I haven't slept in ages so what seems like a good ideea to me atm might be in fact the dumbest thing ever.

Ninja edit : Oh, it would also take NPCs out of the equation. Also, inb4 "omg, 10 man blobs, etc." . The minors could be done solo, the mediums with 3-4 guys, etc. The main point is that it would be better if plexing would encourage ppl to roam rahter than forcing them to stay in one place.
BolsterBomb
Hell House
Hell Dawn
#752 - 2012-05-16 14:59:50 UTC
Lock out wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Lock out wrote:
Hrett wrote:


They actually did a good thing with the Crucible plex changes. It increased small gang a lot. I think they need to tweak capture times down to 3x current, but we will see.


Uhmm .. more times spinning buttons ? Three times more ?



Inferno is going to require 5xs the button spinning to flip a system. Haven't you heard the advertisement "Faction war now with 5xs the button spinning" Smile

Hrett thinks 3xs the button spinning is plenty. I think 1/6 the button spinning is plenty.




I think tagging them should be enough. FOr example, how awesome would it be if it would be 10 man plexes, where a 10 man fleet will start a timer in, let's say enaluri, then have to tag 10 buttons across FW area and get back to Enaluri in an hr and tag the plex again in order to get victory points . That would actually, y'know .. .encourage roaming.

Granted, that beeing said, I haven't slept in ages so what seems like a good ideea to me atm might be in fact the dumbest thing ever.

Ninja edit : Oh, it would also take NPCs out of the equation. Also, inb4 "omg, 10 man blobs, etc." . The minors could be done solo, the mediums with 3-4 guys, etc. The main point is that it would be better if plexing would encourage ppl to roam rahter than forcing them to stay in one place.


Thats why they are scattered through the fw systems .....you cant sit in one place

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#753 - 2012-05-16 15:03:15 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:

Thats why they are scattered through the fw systems .....you cant sit in one place


Well, as long as you are running the button, you are sitting in one place aren't you ? But this way if everyone was on the move all the time, think how many skirmishes would happen en route with guys or gangs running in to eachother.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#754 - 2012-05-16 15:29:34 UTC
I don't mind the actual timer. I think it puts up a beacon that basically says the same thing Bohemond said: "If today they wish to fight, let them come."

I don't have any great urge to shoot red crosses while I wait.

Each side should have reason to fight for *every* plex. Not just wait 35 hours so they can prepare a blob.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#755 - 2012-05-16 15:45:56 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
*ahem*. C'mon now, no head starts on it now. Wait for Inferno and a solid anecdote before you make the thread.
Not whining yet. Not going to chase stabbed condors 23/7 either. Big smile We have other plans for them.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#756 - 2012-05-16 16:04:28 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Kuehnelt wrote:
*ahem*. C'mon now, no head starts on it now. Wait for Inferno and a solid anecdote before you make the thread.
Not whining yet. Not going to chase stabbed condors 23/7 either. Big smile We have other plans for them.



Why not just award the lp in a plex to the pilot that:
1) was there the longest and
2) was on grid when the plex was captured

The lp could then be divided between all the people he is in fleet with who are also on grid when the plex is captured.
Isn't that how vp and standings are awarded now anyway?

As far as lp for kills give the lp to the pilot who did the most damage and divide that with his fleet.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#757 - 2012-05-16 17:04:20 UTC
Warhammer Online started to wear you down when you started running after every battle objective that was being capped for the xp. But there were always people trying to beat the clock because all you had to do was get there.

The good thing about EVE is the acceleration gates make it much easier to pick off the inevitable stragglers, and known leaching jerks will get ostracized.

Besides lockouts taking away tactical reshipping and pushing low sec dwellers to go neutral I'm fine with the coming changes.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#758 - 2012-05-16 19:09:05 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Each side should have reason to fight for *every* plex. Not just wait 35 hours so they can prepare a blob.


They do. You either want the rewards of taking the plex and hurting the enemy, or you plex to keep yourself and your faction from suffering further. Waiting 35 hours to prepare a blob is foolishness, I don't know why you think that everyone will just sit till the last possible minute to defend themselves when your faction's pricing and such is being affected the entire time if you sit their complacently. Not to mention the price to pay if you fail in an eleventh-hour defense effort. I'd much rather engage aggressors when my system is at 5% contested instead of 95% contested, but maybe that's just me.

Besides, it doesnt take 35 hours to prepare a blob. We've been doing it every night, apparently. Classic example: Last night's engagement, which prompted much blob accusations in local. Roll

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#759 - 2012-05-16 19:18:53 UTC
As I understand the idiocy coming, losing plexes in a non-upgraded system has zero impact on warzone control unless it actually flips. So as long as its a 'chaff' system you can wait for as long as you want (until flipping) before dropping a blob in there to counter with no adverse effects .. as they are still not killing of the DT shuffle, I reckon the post-DT action will be back in full force for defenders as they get no immediate benefit so will want to minimize time spent plexing.

PS: You just ran out 20 Amarr with a 50 man triple neut boosted fleet .. calling you Shakorites for blobbers in very appropriate Smile
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#760 - 2012-05-16 19:40:08 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
As I understand the idiocy coming, losing plexes in a non-upgraded system has zero impact on warzone control unless it actually flips. So as long as its a 'chaff' system you can wait for as long as you want (until flipping) before dropping a blob in there to counter with no adverse effects .. as they are still not killing of the DT shuffle, I reckon the post-DT action will be back in full force for defenders as they get no immediate benefit so will want to minimize time spent plexing.

PS: You just ran out 20 Amarr with a 50 man triple neut boosted fleet .. calling you Shakorites for blobbers in very appropriate Smile


My apologies, perhaps my math was a bit off. When I counted I thought I saw 49 individual Amarr pilots involved in that batle report. But seriously, complaining about boosters? Do you understand how silly it sounds to complain about an enemy fleet using command links? Is this what Faction Warfare has come to, where we sit around asking each other politely to not use certain ships and than calling each other cheaters if we do ? This is war, Veshta.

Also, I don't give a crap about Shakor, whoever that is. He can go frak himself, I answer to Bahamut420. Cool

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary