Intergalactic Summit

Because it makes good business sense to sell to those who have need of your goods.

The Amarr Holder market represented, at the time, the single largest market for the Zainou modified TCMCs. To ignore that market on moral grounds would be both foolish and naive, especially for a megacorporation that has already found itself in dire financial straits for exactly that reason. Ishukone sold to Holders in bulk because they needed to buy in bulk, not piecemeal. Ishukone offered a discount for those bulk sales to ensure that the most could be made of that market while it was still active and fresh.

The Holder Market exhausted itself of need for TCMCs after that initial rush, since comparatively few new slaves enter the Empire in any legal quantity. Most Holders who wanted TCMCs already have all they need, and one chip lasts many lifetimes.

In simpler terms, yes Ishukone still sells TCMCs to Amarr Holders, though in much smaller quantities than it did two years ago. Ishukone also sells TCMCs to any qualified entity who requires them, including bulk sales in the Minmatar Republic for industrial bio-robotics usage. They were not designed for slavery, they simply have uses in it.

Is Ishukone enabling slavery by providing tools for it? Yes, technically. Has Ishukone also provided equally powerful tools against it? Yes.

The onus is not on Ishukone Corporation or any other Caldari megacorp to free your enslaved brothers and sisters, nor is it on Ishukone to purposefully ignore willing trade partners because they use Ishukone product on slaves. Ishukone is a business, and its primary concern is profit that benefits Ishukone and trade partners, which do include both your political friends and enemies. If you do not agree with that, I'm afraid that's your choice on the matter.

All of that said, I-RED is not Ishukone Corporation, and Ishukone Corporation is not I-RED. We are a capsuleer subsidiary who's majority shareholder is Ishukone Corporation. That may not seem like much of a difference to those who don't understand basic corporate economics, but it is.

I-RED - not Ishukone Corporation - is looking to help the Republic economy by stimulating increased trade, improving existing infrastructure, and providing employment and contracts for Republic citizens. Of course, this is not a humanitarian effort. We seek profit. Even so, it's a win-win situation for both parties. Simply put, the Republic benefits from working with I-RED, as we have shown with our other dealings with other organizations.

Those who are willing to set aside the moral squeamishness of Ishukone Corporation's business dealings and look toward the betterment of the people they have already freed with an improved Republic economy through open trade with willing and friendly partners... you're welcome to contact us.

Heh

I'll say two things before i get heckled off with claims (some true) of my treason and war mongering.

Firstly, i would not trust John as far as i could throw him, i don't think its a secret about our bad blood, or the fact we haven't spoken or made contact with each other since our little war, the fact he can re-write history as he pleases. but to the victors the spoils i guess... *smirks*

You are all expendable, he says it himself, but lets not start throwing mud at each other, and beat the dead dog further.

Secondly, its nice to see the Cal-Matar still lives on, my hopes and my dreams, a set of ideals forged many moons ago with sincerity and respect. its a shame to see John put his grubby little mitts on my child and turned it into a profit scheme.

However...

Korsavius is a good man, sometimes misguided but he has heart, and allot of it, for him to take the reigns of an organization that was forged with the same fire and passion that burns inside him, well i have high hopes for the Cal-Matar again.

Just remember old friend, do not allow this to become a puppet of one mans lies and greed.

You have the potential to do great things and succeed where i have failed.

Good luck old friend.



With respect and best wishes.

-Cheiftan

This is foolishness couched as pretentious wisdom. The obvious truth is that for the Caldari business is politcs, and vice versa. To be ignorant of this is to be utterly ignorant of the Caldari.

As for leaving, I will do so. Mine is a poor and often coarse voice, but it the only one I have. But it is at least a voice, which is more than our enslaved kin posses. And while I never claimed to speak for all or even most Matari, at least it is a Matari voice.

This is not a distant or past event. Even now, somewhere within the vast Empire, it is all but certain an Ishkuone machine is being forced into a Matari slave. Even now the Caldari aid their allies against those who would try to stop it. This is a present evil, not an ancient grudge.

Someone must speak unpleasant truths. The Minmatar pilots considering this proposal needed to know abou the realities of what they were being asked to do. Now they do, and they are better for it. Indeed, many of the Caldari pilots themselves seemed blissfully or willfully ignorant to the reality of the situation.

The simple truth is that if you harm a helpess people for no better reason than greater profits, those people will remember. Many of them will likely not forgive or forget easily, nor should they. Some will possibly seek vengence or war. Caldari accountants would do well to include that simple truth into their profit statements.

Some people find simple truths to be offensive or rude. But it is a common right of passage for adolescents to be upset when they discover their parents are not, in fact, the flawless heroes they thought they were as children.

Sorry dear, I'm spoken for.

I thank Captain Oniseki for the honest answer.

For the record, I do not think I-RED is dishonorable in their dealings here, in the sense that I do not think they are betraying what they believe in or trying to deceive the people they seek trade with. I believe this is an honest offer, and that they are genuinely baffled and frustrated about our reasons of advising turning it down.

That said, the Caldari ideal where organizations or individuals seemingly cannot be judged by who they associate with, is equally baffling to me.

Yes, Ishukone does not sell only to slavers - but I cannot see how that makes targeting them with special offers and discounts somehow less "supporting" them. Yes, the TCMC "workforce control" markets have been satisfied and so Ishukone probably has less income from that now than they had three years ago - but why would that mean we should ignore that it was Ishukone who flooded those markets with cheap gadgets, so that every Holder had an access to the technology, and they can make profits of it? Yes, I-RED is reaching out to Matari now - but how does that mean we should ignore the fact that as long as it can be made profitable, the Enemy is still who Ishkone sides with?

Just because you are also reaching out to Minmatar, does not in my books make it irrelevant that you are part of Ishukone.

If Ishkuone wouldn't have sold them, and a market existed someone else would have, it is as simple as that. Blame the politics that make TCMCs a reality, after all concord could easily ban them, of course it seems a fair bit more humane than vitoc but that isn't the point.

The question as I see it is this, should the matari embrace free markets or not? There are alternatives of course, I know even Rek Jaiga himself used to do lots of things off the market. Isk doesn't even have to be the end all currency, after all tritanium has intrinsic value that isk doesn't.

However, in this Interconnected economy that is New Eden, unless you have a top class workforce, such as Sansha's Nation, you will be left behind if you don't pursue a free market system. So does the republic want to play second fiddle to the other empires for the sake of their morality or will they forsake their morals for power, only time will tell. I have no horse in this race, so this is how I view it.

It's worth pointing out that I mentioned Ishukone sold at a discount because of the sheer bulk of product Holders were willing to buy, not because they own slaves. There's a distinct difference in intent.

Yes, I suppose in your eyes it is still damning, but do not mistake those bulk sales as anything more than simple business. Ishukone didn't sell the TCMCs because they want to see your brethren in slavery. Ishukone sold TCMCs because it doesn't care.




This is what concerns me. I think you're misunderstanding business and sales as 'picking a side' in your war.

I never mentioned my definition of 'free-market' nor have I complained about the market not doing what I want it to. Nobody has
asked Electus Matari specifically to participate in this endeavor, yet EM seems speak as though they represent the entire Matari market.

However, since everyone seems to be tossing around half baked definitions of the term, I'll take a moment to correct some of you.

Your understanding of Free-Market is incomplete at best, flawed at worst. Yes, it also means you are free to choose not to buy from who you don't want to, but that isn't the true definition of the term. In fact, the true definition of the term refers to a market where prices are determined by supply and demand.

Yes, supply and demand. Just like the supply and demand regarding TCMCs. There was a demand in a certain market, and Ishukone adjusted prices as part of good business sense. There was no regulation or impediment to selling into a market known to be tainted with slavery. Sorry, but that's the reality of Free-Market economy.

Furthermore, your Fedo analogy is poor. There was nothing deceptive or underhanded about Ishukone's TCMC sales. Comparing it to selling fecal matter as chocolate is ridiculous at best. Please do not insult my intelligence by comparing the two.

EDIT: You actually dodged my question.

How is selling to everyone including Amarrian Holders construed as 'siding with Amarr'? Enable them, yes. Side with them? No.

It's also amusing that only the militant Capsuleer organizations have spoken up in this thread.

By calling EM "militant" you make the standard capsuleer mistake where you think "militant" and "industrial" are mutually exclusive.

This is not the case.