EVE General Discussion

Well, Eve already meets the criteria for all the definitions you posted, so I am not sure exactly what you are looking for here.

It is a sandbox because there is no linear progression, no structured play, etc. You sign into the game and it basically says "Here is a Frigate, here are some things you can do, now go entertain yourself."

However, to wax philosophical, I guess to me a Sandbox game is merely one where the players, collectively and individually, define the play experience, within the loose framework of the game's mechanics and systems.

Or to put it in even more basic terms.

A "Sandbox" doesn't mean you can do what you want.

A "Sandbox" means you can TRY to do what you want, but there are no guarantees.

If what you want to do in the sandbox conficts with what another player wants to do, it's up to you to try and prevail.

The sandbox won't sort the issue out for you.

Xython wrote:
A few reasons why they support it.

1. EVE is a Sandbox. That means there is no official rule requiring people to play nice or even be civil to each other. CCP has upheld this belief through thick and thin, albeit with some recent missteps (the 180 on the Boomarang tactic, for example). Simply put, they don't really "support" it per say, they support the rule framework and the culture of the Sandbox that allows us to do it if we want.

2. EVE is unique amongst the MMOs because it is a Sandbox. It is literally it's biggest selling point. No other MMO comes even close to offering what EVE offers -- and stories like this are perfect examples that CCP can point to and go "You can't get that experience in WOW."

3. The EVE Economy is absolutely ******. Years of RMT, of Botting, of "free" minerals have done an absolute number on the economy. While CCP would never directly intervene, they certainly welcome player self correction. Goons attacked the Gallente Ice fields not because it would **** off highsec kids -- well, not entirely so -- but because our logistics guys looked at the economy as a whole and realized that the entire economy is based on a few hundred people cheating using ice bot accounts. That's ****** up, and you don't have to be a Goon to agree. Ice needs to be moved to lowsec or even Nullsec, and moved fast.

4. The risk/reward balance between Highsec and Nullsec is even more ******. Hulkageddon, the Ice Interdiction, Burn Jita, these are all symptoms of a bigger disease -- the death of the PVP Ecosystem in Nullsec. This is going to be hard for some Highsec players to understand, but there are Nullsec players who do enjoy Mining, Crafting, and other Logistics roles. Hell, The Mittani originally was a miner. The problem is, with botters and other cheaters, as well as the flood of "Nullsec Minerals" coming from other sources (Drone Poo, Refining, etc) there was literally no reason to ever mine in Nullsec. It just didn't make any sense at all in comparison to mining in Highsec, even with the minerals being slightly less valuable.

5. EVE is, at it's heart, a PVP game. Everything in EVE is a zero sum game, save some Isk Faucets that CCP are desperately trying to plug. Everything you do in EVE is either working with (in temporary partnership) or working against other players. Crafting, Mining, Market Shinanigans, even if you never fit a gun to your ship, you are PVPing.

7. Highsec players feel they are too safe. Simply put, there are those out there who read the warnings and thought that they were bunk, because Jita's a "safe" system. They were wrong. If you want to be safe in EVE -- fit a tank. Get a friend to fly a combat ship or a logi ship with shield reps to keep you safe. Don't just think you can streak naked across the Jita sky carrying a huge sack of money and holding a sign saying "Bite me, Goonies" and not expect to be mugged.

8. If you fell prey to the Goons in Burn Jita, you deserved it. CCP (and Goons!) literally did everything they could to warn people not to fly big ships in Jita. We announced it a month ahead of time. There were hundreds of threads premptively complaining about it before we even began. And CCP put a warning up on the freaking login screen, which bent the spirit of the Sandbox. Simply put, if you did get ganked, you had no excuse. EVE is a multiplayer game, and ignoring the entirety of the playerbase outside of spreadsheets is not the spirit of any MMO.

You do know, right, that Security Status of systems and pilots, aggression mechanics (and Hi/Low/Null) were added? That "in the beginning" there was only mining and shooting each other? There may have been belt rats (I'm pretty sure there were - but not 100% - older players will have to correct me on that if I'm wrong).

But there was *no* "hi-sec".

CCP have added them over the years to accommodate a larger player base - but CCP is fully aware that other players *CAN* block you from doing x, y or z activity and have actually coded that specifically into the game.

CCP *added* an 11% corp tax to the NPC corps to encourage players to not congregate there, but instead encourage those who it bothered, to leave those corps and either join existing corps, or form their own (and I would LOVE to see the numbers on that, as I don't believe it produced the intended results...)

CCP recently buffed Destroyers (pretty much across the board), even though those same ships are *VERY* popular with "gankers" because of the high return on DPS/ISK spent - were you aware of that?

So really, CCP is fully aware of the game mechanics, and have pretty much specifically made a game, wherein we can be interfered with, or interfere with others. In effect saying to each and every player (not specifically saying, but rather saying with the actual structure of the game):

"Yes, this *is* a pvp game, as almost *every* activity you engage in, can be interrupted by another player, or players".

That is what the game is designed for.



Mining is an activity taken place outside of stations and so is therefore an activity that *can* be interrupted and interfered with by other players, by design. There are steps you can take to minimize the overall risk of actually having to confront another player (or be confronted by) - but it *cannot* be conducted purely "solo" (in the sense that no one *can* bother you) because of the mechanics that CCP have put in place, on purpose.

Let me ask you this, when you modify an order, why do you do that? I imagine you do that to place your (buy or sell) orders in a more positive position to be filled. But you do realize that while doing so, your interfering with another players ability to have *his/her* orders in that same position?

You're actually engaging in PvP here (player conflict within the structure of the game sandbox walls). It may *not* be all "blasters and lazors" - but it *is* pvp in the modern sense of the word.


Welcome to Eve!

Without a box it's just sand.