Player Features and Ideas Discussion

With the speed that CCP makes balance changes I wouldn't get my hopes up.

I don't have much experience with hybrids, but I just got large lasers (a day away from spec 4), lucky me, they nerf incursions right as I get T2 lasers for my nightmare...

I can say with the nightmare, the cap is a problem, T2's are using 30% more cap. I used to be able to last 10+ minutes with all my hardeners on shooting faction multi - not so anymore. (Its not that my cap skills are horrible, the nightmare essentially has a built in 50% reduction in laser cap use due to having 4 lasers do the work of 8, controlled bursts is lvl 4, energy operation lvl 5, energy management lvl 4, a +5% to cap capacity implant, and a -5% to cap recharge time implant)
I can't imagine trying to fly an Abaddon with T2s and no cap booster.

Unlike other modules where T2 is not the best, with guns, they are the best - and saddling the best weapons for hybrids and lasers with 30% more cap use while nothing comparable is done for projectiles is pretty poor IMO.
Yes, I know scorch is one of "the best" T2 ammo choices (ie offers one of the best improvements over T1 ammo)

Note that with these proposed changes, even at ""bittervet" lvl 5, T2 guns would still use more cap than meta4.

I *suppose* that to be "fair" one could give advanced projectile skills a 2% reduction to reload time per level (not weapon cycle time/ROF, but the time it takes you to reload a magazine/change ammo).

Hybrids now can probably feasibly change ammo types in combat since the reload time was halved, and lasers switch ammo very fast. We could throw a bone to projectile users, and let them reload in 9 seconds at spec V
Another option (though it would make less lore sense) would be to have a 2% increased magazine capacity per level.
An Autocannon that held 120 rounds would then hold 132 rounds at lvl 5.
For artillery, this would give more incentive to get lvl5, as at lvl 4, you would be just shy of holding another round if your base capacity was 20 rounds

If you think the nightmare cap is horrible, look at the Abaddon, its firing 8 lasers with no cap bonus - its no wonder they are often fit with arty

Lets look at the Amarr BSs + Nightmare + Bhaalgorn
Abaddon*:
6375 GJ/1250 s 5.108 ratio

Apocalypse/Apoc Navy issue/Bhaalgorn (same cap stats):
7500 GJ/1154.88 s 6.494 ratio

Armageddon/IN Geddon/Redeemer:
5312.5 GJ/1087.5 s 4.885 ratio

Paladin:
5625 GJ/923.9 s 6.088 ratio

Nightmare:
6950 GJ/1154.88 s 6.018 ratio

*The Abaddon is the only ship without either a half cap usage bonus, or a double turret bonus + half the normal number of turrets.

We see that the Nightmare has a better capacity than everything except the Bhaalgorn, and the Apocalypses.
It has a regen on par with the Paladin, and better than everything but the Paladin, Bhaal, and Apocalypses.

If the Nightmare has a bad cap (I actually agree that its cap is a bit weak), then that basically means the entire laser BS lineup is underpowered in terms of cap, except the Bhaalgorn (which is meant for capacitor warfare) and the Apocalypse (no wonder the Apoc is recommended for beginner amarr mission runners).

If the Nightmare has a bad cap, then how can you expect any other Amarr BS except the Apocalypse, to deal with the 30% increase in cap use of T2 lasers?
The Apoc, by the way, due to its range bonus, is the one that least needs Scorch....

Note: Nightmare also needs its cap to run its tank (invulns, etc) and is usually active-tanked, which gives it an even worse cap problems than what the other Amarr battleships deal with.



That's a nice comparison you did. However, lasers have (and have always had) three primary downsides: cap usage, fitting cost, and tracking. If it weren't for those lasers would be hands down the best weapon platform.

Again, I don't have the experience using large lasers to say with real certainty that T2 lasers need to use less cap, but I'm trying to point out that reducing their cap draw would significantly reduce the reasons to not use lasers everywhere (i.e. massive buff of massiveness, of the same scale as increasing damage or falloff of autocannons).


Are you kidding me? That's the reason to use Scorch! 60 km pulse lasers without needing any range mods is delicious!

Train weapon upgrades and advanced weapon upgrades to 5, T2 is a must unless you have fat pockets and want faction/deadspace mods

"Train weapon upgrades and advanced weapon upgrades to 5, "
Doesn't help cap consumption

"T2 is a must unless you have fat pockets and want faction/deadspace mods"
Faction guns use the same PG as T2, so AWG doesn't change T2 vs faction stats.
Its also generally accepted that faction guns are inferior to T2 (but there are many other threads on how to "fix" faction guns)

I don't see what either of those has to do with addressing the three points (and priarily #1 and #2) of the original post.

As to the cap reducing rigs - yes, it seems they are a must, they bring the cap use back down to approximately meta-4 levels

Why should Gallente and Amarr need to devote a rig slot just to deal with the T2 weapon cap consumption...
The projectile users don't need to mount a rig for that
-plus that rig increases the PG use of the guns, by at least 5%, meaning that to get rid of the cap penalty for going to T2 guns, you take a -1 rig slot penalty+ increased PG use.

Moved from Ships & Modules