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@CCP - breach of national laws

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Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#61 - 2012-05-01 16:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas
Geil Ding wrote:
Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender.


Ahahaha. Haha. Ha.

Right.

I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed.

Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender.
Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#62 - 2012-05-01 16:34:23 UTC
Surely people have been sharing Evemail-based intel since day one? So just because an API makes it easier we need to remove the feature? Look, any rational person would understand that the problem is not with the API, but people using it to leak mails. After all they could still just copy and paste. For someone with a software engineering degree you are being willfully ignorant. You're supposed to be a proponent of innovation, not a technophobic blowhard.

I like it best when the beats are naked.
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-05-01 16:35:59 UTC
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-05-01 16:36:32 UTC
I am wondering what alliance the OP is in to cause the post. I am sure its on the list.
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#65 - 2012-05-01 16:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas
Geil Ding wrote:
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.


You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.)
Twulf
Thunder Clap Industry
#66 - 2012-05-01 16:43:55 UTC
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option.

My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.



This is true... but its a good thing that Eve is just a game (you know its just a game right?...right?) and not bound by international laws... I will finish with this appropriate ASCII picture:

*snip* - ASCII art - ISD LoneLynx


The game company behind the game is bound by international law you idiot.
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-05-01 16:45:13 UTC
Geil Ding wrote:
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.



Sowhen someone gives their email login to someone else the mail provider is breaking the law?
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-05-01 16:45:48 UTC
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.


You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.)


It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-05-01 16:46:46 UTC
Geil Ding wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.


You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.)


It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.


But the API and your EVEMails are not your property. The EULA says they are CCP's property.

Ergo, this isn't "your email" being exposed. It's CCP's email being exposed. And CCP has no problems letting you fall victim to your own stupidity.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#70 - 2012-05-01 16:49:18 UTC
A. Communications

Except for certain information in your Account (discussed below), all transmissions by you to the System are not private. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms. CCP and/or its designated affiliates and representatives may monitor communications made by or received from you. You should not provide private information to any other player in the Game. CCP shall not be responsible for the consequences of any such disclosure by you.

Also, slap your college teacher for not teaching you to look up accredited services rather than Wiki. The next time you post a wiki article, I'm changing the article to say you suck at research and you smell too.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-05-01 16:49:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas
Geil Ding wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.


You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.)


It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.


If you say it's a law, then you should be able to provide us a link to a government website showing us information about this law. And I mean specifically a law that says mail can not be published without the consent of the sender. I stand by my claim that it is not illegal for a person to publish REGULAR COMMUNICATION (not medical, legal or government files) without the consent of the author in any country on the planet.

Also, it's not illegal to read mail which was sent to an employee IF THEY CONSENT (which is what has been done here). By submitting an API key to the website, the player has consented to all of the emails in their mailbox being published.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#72 - 2012-05-01 16:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
Geil Ding wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.


You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.)


It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.


Still leaves CCP out the loophole, as it is a player who decides to bring it public, hence the player is to blame if at all! The mails are part of the game, don't cry foul now when a gamemechanic doesn't work like you wanted it to.

Eve is a sandbox where you're given options on how to deal with it. If you can't deal with a certain gamemechanic, don't cry and run to CCP to fix it.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-05-01 16:50:40 UTC
Geil Ding wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.


You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.)


It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.


What does that have top do with anything? Evenif the in-game mails we're your property, this isn't the same thing whatsoever. This would be you publishing a mail a friend sent you.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-05-01 17:00:56 UTC
Geil Ding wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.


You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.)


It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.


A corp or alliance takes 100% responsibility for any/all members it invites. If a corp/alliance does not want a player to have access to alliance/corp mail, then said alliance/corp should not invite said player.

If a player gives out an API, said player is 100% responsible for whatever happens with that data.

CCP is just a communications medium. They offer the service, but the users must manage it.

If a player gives out an API to someone and that someone miss-uses the API, then the player takes responsibility for it.

If the alliance does not like that the member gave out the API, it is the alliance's fault for inviting that member.

The alliance/corp, member, and other player are all equally at fault. CCP has nothing to do with this.

If I willingly hand my car keys to someone and they run a red light, I am responsible for that ticket, it would be different if they sole my car. I could take that person to court to force them to reimburse me for the ticket.

Just be aware, anything that exists inside of Eve, CCP owns all rights, including mail.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-05-01 17:03:04 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Internet lawyers...
Aglea Toralen
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-05-01 17:22:51 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1225263

OP... go stick it where the sun don't shine.... Anyone else crying.... LOL
okst666
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-05-01 17:24:59 UTC
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender.


Ahahaha. Haha. Ha.

Right.

I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed.

Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender.


Not a law but I have found a court decision.

http://www.e-recht24.de/news/sonstige/1061.html

In Germany you are not allowed to publish private E-Mails without permission of the sender. As said - this is only a court decision I have found after 3 minutes googleing. I bet if one dives deeper you will find a law.. Be it copyright or "Right on your own words" (translates very badly - basically says you are not allowed to record my voice and play it to othes without my permission - seems easy to adapt to emails)


Anyway, I like the Idea of eveskunk.

[X] < Nail here for new monitor
roboto212
EVE University
Ivy League
#78 - 2012-05-01 17:28:58 UTC
To the op. You do understand that espionage, theft and sabotage are allowable actions in game. Acceptance of the eula says you understand that. All the web page does is publicly publish the results of an act of espionage in game with in the bounds of the game. The mechanic happens to be the Ali key useing the show mail option. By your definition any one who ever organized the killing of another team in a fps should be charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

Every thing being done is with in the bounds of the game htfu and implement a better screening process for spies.
roboto212
EVE University
Ivy League
#79 - 2012-05-01 17:34:02 UTC
okst666 wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender.


Ahahaha. Haha. Ha.

Right.

I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed.

Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender.


Not a law but I have found a court decision.

http://www.e-recht24.de/news/sonstige/1061.html

In Germany you are not allowed to publish private E-Mails without permission of the sender. As said - this is only a court decision I have found after 3 minutes googleing. I bet if one dives deeper you will find a law.. Be it copyright or "Right on your own words" (translates very badly - basically says you are not allowed to record my voice and play it to othes without my permission - seems easy to adapt to emails)


Anyway, I like the Idea of eveskunk.

Except the email sent in game is not private. You accepted the eula which expressly states you waive the right to privacy in game . The reason is because espionage is an ingame activity that is part of the game. So try again.
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-05-01 17:35:16 UTC
okst666 wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Geil Ding wrote:
Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender.


Ahahaha. Haha. Ha.

Right.

I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed.

Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender.


Not a law but I have found a court decision.

http://www.e-recht24.de/news/sonstige/1061.html

In Germany you are not allowed to publish private E-Mails without permission of the sender. As said - this is only a court decision I have found after 3 minutes googleing. I bet if one dives deeper you will find a law.. Be it copyright or "Right on your own words" (translates very badly - basically says you are not allowed to record my voice and play it to othes without my permission - seems easy to adapt to emails)


Anyway, I like the Idea of eveskunk.


That's not really correct. The law regarding publication of the mail in Germany is highly dependant upon the content of the mail.
Even if you take corp mails as actual mails your employee sends you there is no clear law and you would have to get a judge involved. And even then, the person responsible is the guy who gave out his API key.