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If you are going to under cut, do it right no just a single isk!
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karesuto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-01 08:40:43 UTC
All day from downtime last night some bugger has been underr cutting all my sales by a single isk >.<. I know this is apart of eve but come on a single isk is a pain in the arse.

If you are going to do it, do it right. I drop my prices over this guy by around 100,000 isk but he still drops by 1

bit of a run down
I placed some items up for 4.7 mil this person whent 4.699.99, I droped to 4.6 they went 4.599.999 and so forth.

Gaa one dam isk
Tarik ThunderStorm
The Molden Heath Yacht Club
#2 - 2012-05-01 08:48:35 UTC
Welcome to but a taste of market pvp.

You should just do it back. But by 0.01 isk. Until one of you gets too tired to update!
Twisted
Chevalleis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-05-01 09:06:34 UTC
Why would you want to lose 100,000 in profits instead of 1 ISK?
karesuto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-05-01 09:22:26 UTC
Chevalleis wrote:
Why would you want to lose 100,000 in profits instead of 1 ISK?

I tried to be the better man, but If this is the way it is then this is war !
Laveaolous
Paragon Fury
#5 - 2012-05-01 09:29:48 UTC
There are plently of reasons to undercut someone significantly. however you do not seem to following any I know.

Are you trying to extract the least ISK from this, or following some strategy your post is failing to allude to? Your 'single isk is a pain in the arse' reasoning alone doesn't seem like a good motive to sacrifice margin.
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-01 09:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Aina Sasaki
0.01 ISKers are a fact of life, unfortunately. My way of dealing with them is, in short, to not deal with them at all. I've got bigger fish to fry and my trade brings in enough daily revenue to satisfy my growth plans. Until I see my profits take a serious dip, I won't pay them any mind.

If I was going to fight them however, i'd opt for the deep undercut approach just as I did in the past in another game. Ultimately,the winner of that battle is the one who is more willing to accept razor-thin profit margins than the other guy. However, this technique is best done if you can have both the best buy and best sell order. Otherwise... it can turn into a serious disaster.

Just my thoughts. :)

- Rei
Araviel
Epic.
#7 - 2012-05-01 09:41:51 UTC
unless your plan is to push him down in order to buy him up then there is no reason to undercut whit more than 0.1isk
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#8 - 2012-05-01 09:52:05 UTC
Mouse wheel scrolling ftw!

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

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Lt Angus
Goat Herders
#9 - 2012-05-01 10:02:10 UTC
So just do it for him and undercut 199,999.99 each time. Simples Bear
Rengerel en Distel
#10 - 2012-05-01 11:33:40 UTC
If your goal in buying or selling items is to make a profit, how does it make sense then to use any other method than 0.01 isk? If you're trying to sell something, and you drop your price by 100k, you're just giving away 100k. If you're buying something, and raise your bid 100k, again, you're just giving away 100k. The guy is doing you a favor by not undercutting by more.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Ayn Randy
Home For Pugs
#11 - 2012-05-01 11:43:45 UTC
The way i see it, no one person deserves to be the top order! Instead, i see people just taking turns 0.01 isking their order to the top and sharing the wealth. The people who drop by bigger amounts just ruin it for themselves and everybody else.

In jita, consumers dont wait until a better price comes up to buy or sell an item, they will just buy or sell at any price. And as traders, we should be looking to profit out of that.

If theres profit to be made it will be made, whether its 10 isk or 10million isk, if your going to be the person who undercuts someone by a huge amount, dont be upset when they all undercut you by 0.01 isk. they are the ones who are cursing you for ruining everyone elses and your own profit!
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-05-01 11:57:50 UTC
Ayn Randy wrote:
The way i see it, no one person deserves to be the top order! Instead, i see people just taking turns 0.01 isking their order to the top and sharing the wealth. The people who drop by bigger amounts just ruin it for themselves and everybody else.

In jita, consumers dont wait until a better price comes up to buy or sell an item, they will just buy or sell at any price. And as traders, we should be looking to profit out of that.

If theres profit to be made it will be made, whether its 10 isk or 10million isk, if your going to be the person who undercuts someone by a huge amount, dont be upset when they all undercut you by 0.01 isk. they are the ones who are cursing you for ruining everyone elses and your own profit!



In other words... what we have on the markets between traders is an unofficial cartel of 0.01 undercutting.

I don't like cartels very much. I'm not really sure anyone does, to be honest.

- Rei
Johnny Frecko
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-05-01 12:13:15 UTC
what is it with people's opinions "cartels"?

Cartel is several large suppliers working together to prevent competition.
You have a trader cartel just like you have an incursions cartel.

In other words;
Traders don't work together to maximize their personal profits. they do *sometimes*.
you might aswell blame pvpers for using T3 cruisers.
Not all of us can use them, Might aswell tell them "if you're gonna pvp, you better pvp right! in a frigate"

else you'll have a cartel of T3 cruiser pilots.
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-05-01 12:13:33 UTC
What i do is drop my order down in steps till i make no profit. When he 0.1's me i just move my order above his order. I let him and the people who folllow get brought for no profit. He can be the top order but i kill his profit and just wait for the market to bounce back.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#15 - 2012-05-01 12:24:59 UTC
I prefer when they undercut by this 1ISK or 0.01 ISK.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
enterprisePSI
#16 - 2012-05-01 15:12:01 UTC
if the first order is 1 000 000 i click on modify order, type 1 000 000 then mouse wheel scroll down a bit. Just 0.01 Lol

The tears of the many, outweigh the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi©
Ayn Randy
Home For Pugs
#17 - 2012-05-01 15:41:57 UTC
enterprisePSI wrote:
if the first order is 1 000 000 i click on modify order, type 1 000 000 then mouse wheel scroll down a bit. Just 0.01 Lol


WTF, just found out i can do that :D... Happiest person ever now!

/goes and updates all orders
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#18 - 2012-05-01 16:30:41 UTC
Ayn Randy wrote:
enterprisePSI wrote:
if the first order is 1 000 000 i click on modify order, type 1 000 000 then mouse wheel scroll down a bit. Just 0.01 Lol


WTF, just found out i can do that :D... Happiest person ever now!

/goes and updates all orders



Saves a ton of time

If there is such a thing as a "greifer" in competitive markets its the guys that change the price by other amounts and make me take more timei and risk mistakes by changing the price in odd ways.

But, of course their goal is to get me to go away and leave the market to them so there is some sense in them making it a pain for me. But it is more work for them too and they need to decide whether the effort is worth the higher chance of getting me to leave (or on the other hand risking that I crash the markets to spite them for making me use so many key strokes instead of a simple mouse wheel roll)



ALSO... as soon as you comem to grips with the idea that it is a live market where people present get the sales first, the easy it will be to mentally handle not getting the trades unless the market demand trades through your price and order.

.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#19 - 2012-05-01 16:36:34 UTC
High Light, Folders, Mouse wheel..

Market combo of death..

Waiting for Corporate order highlight and cancel function.. then all your humans are belongs to da bots..

Who needs bots when you have hundreds of humans micromanaging their orders..

Solution make orders more sane, remove the upper cap on contracts and outstanding orders.
Repeating the mantra since 2004.
Debiru
Universal Fleet Operations
#20 - 2012-05-01 17:00:12 UTC
To OP;
Something you suggest happened a few weeks ago on the Hurricane market in Dodixie. In the span of around 40 hours prices went from 48 million per Cane to 44.3 million. Sure, the undercutter made a few profits in that time, but all he did was soil the market for himself for two weeks (the prices just now came back up). Not only did everyone else's profit go down, but his did as well. Canes went from 5.5m profit to 435k profit. That's the result of undercutting 100,000 ISK every time. 0.01 ISK saves you and every other industrialist money. Undercutting huge amounts for the reason "0.01 ISK undercuts are gay" just shows how poorly you know about market and finance. Stop complaining about a system that preserves good profit margins for yourself to take advantage of.
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