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What counts as a "Passive Armor Hardener"?
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Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-04-30 23:25:00 UTC
For the purpose of the Armor Compensation skills.

Would an "Adaptive Nano Membrane" count?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2 - 2012-04-30 23:44:35 UTC
Yes.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#3 - 2012-04-30 23:49:41 UTC
Passive armor hardeners - so ANPs, EANMs, etc. Also, offline active hardeners.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-04-30 23:50:12 UTC
Deliciousness!

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-05-01 00:06:28 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Also, offline active hardeners.


I'm fairly sure they need to be online and inactive.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-01 00:23:31 UTC
All the ones you dont have to click to activate.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-05-01 01:06:32 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
All the ones you dont have to click to activate.


I know what "Passive" implies. Roll

Just not clear on what constitutes as a Hardener.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-05-01 01:08:46 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
All the ones you dont have to click to activate.


I know what "Passive" implies. Roll

Just not clear on what constitutes as a Hardener.


A module that increases resistance to only that layer.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-05-01 01:11:30 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
All the ones you dont have to click to activate.


I know what "Passive" implies. Roll

Just not clear on what constitutes as a Hardener.


A module that increases resistance to only that layer.



So in essence the name doesn't matter; as long as it gives any form of Armour Resistance it counts as a Hardener?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#10 - 2012-05-01 01:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Tor Gungnir wrote:



So in essence the name doesn't matter; as long as it gives any form of Armour Resistance it counts as a Hardener?


Technically, no.

Armor Hardeners are active modules. You have to click on them to activate them. Everything in this category is listed under "Armor Hardeners" in the market. When the module is turned off (e.g. if you run out of cap), then the Armor Resistance skill improves this hardener by 3% per level. Thus, when it is activated, an Armor EM Hardener II gives a +55% resistance bonus to armor EM resistances. If I run out of cap, it deactivates. Then if I have EM Armor Compensation V trained, it gives a 15% resistance bonus to armor EM resistances. Better than nothing, but not much.

The other categories are passive modules - Energized Plating, and Resistance Plating. These modules are listed under "Energized Plating" and "Resistance Plating" on the market. Resistance Platings are easier to fit, but less effective than Energized Platings. These get a 5% bonus/level from the Armor Compensation skills.

Armor rigs can also give a resistance bonus to armor, but they do not benefit from the Armor Compensation skills.

The Damage Control also gives a resistance bonus to armor, but it does not benefit from the Armor Compensation skills.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#11 - 2012-05-01 01:56:44 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Also, offline active hardeners.


I'm fairly sure they need to be online and inactive.


Um, yes. Inactive, that's the term these days.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#12 - 2012-05-01 12:31:29 UTC
Because the same misunderstandings tend to go hand in hand, there's one other thing which you haven't asked but need to know...

The compensation skills do not add an absolute 5% to the resistances quoted but 5% of the resistances quoted.

Therefore with all compensation skills at [5] you will not end up with a T2 EANM which provides 50% resists across the board but one which provides 31.25% (25% × 1.25).

I can't recall whether the descriptions got a rewording a while back but this was almost always misunderstood.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#13 - 2012-05-01 14:46:30 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
Because the same misunderstandings tend to go hand in hand, there's one other thing which you haven't asked but need to know...

The compensation skills do not add an absolute 5% to the resistances quoted but 5% of the resistances quoted.

Therefore with all compensation skills at [5] you will not end up with a T2 EANM which provides 50% resists across the board but one which provides 31.25% (25% × 1.25).

I can't recall whether the descriptions got a rewording a while back but this was almost always misunderstood.


You might want to take a look at how active hardeners when they're turned off.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2012-05-01 15:01:15 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jacob Holland wrote:
Because the same misunderstandings tend to go hand in hand, there's one other thing which you haven't asked but need to know...

The compensation skills do not add an absolute 5% to the resistances quoted but 5% of the resistances quoted.

Therefore with all compensation skills at [5] you will not end up with a T2 EANM which provides 50% resists across the board but one which provides 31.25% (25% × 1.25).

I can't recall whether the descriptions got a rewording a while back but this was almost always misunderstood.


You might want to take a look at how active hardeners when they're turned off.

-Liang


Right. Inactice active hardeners get a straight 3% (so they act like a 15% hardener at relevant comp 5). Passives work as described above though (5% multiplicative with the previous bonus).
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-05-01 18:05:30 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jacob Holland wrote:
Because the same misunderstandings tend to go hand in hand, there's one other thing which you haven't asked but need to know...

The compensation skills do not add an absolute 5% to the resistances quoted but 5% of the resistances quoted.

Therefore with all compensation skills at [5] you will not end up with a T2 EANM which provides 50% resists across the board but one which provides 31.25% (25% × 1.25).

I can't recall whether the descriptions got a rewording a while back but this was almost always misunderstood.


You might want to take a look at how active hardeners when they're turned off.

-Liang


Right. Inactice active hardeners get a straight 3% (so they act like a 15% hardener at relevant comp 5). Passives work as described above though (5% multiplicative with the previous bonus).


Oh it's multiplicative.

That sucks.

5% of 15% is nothing...

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Non Servlam
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-05-01 18:21:55 UTC
15% * 5% = 0.75%.

0.75% > nothing

Your math fails
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-05-01 19:54:00 UTC
Non Servlam wrote:
15% * 5% = 0.75%.

0.75% > nothing

Your math fails


Your reading comprehension fails.

When one says nothing in that context they don't literally meant "nothing".

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Non Servlam
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-05-01 19:58:17 UTC
Inflammable means flammable?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#19 - 2012-05-01 21:25:00 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Oh it's multiplicative.

That sucks.

5% of 15% is nothing...


20% on a T2 EANM. With comps at 4, that's 24%. 25% with comps at 5.

Energized explosive II without comps is 37.5%. Comps at 4 that's 45%. Comps at 5 it's 46.875%. Hardener is 55%.

IN energized explosive without comps is 40%. Comps at 4 that's 48%. Comps at 5 it's 50%. Deadspace can get you up to 55.655% with comps at 5, so actually better than T2 hardeners.

Whether that's worth it is up to you, but it's quite a bit considering no cap cost.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-05-01 22:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
The time required to get any real impact is just immense.

Keep in mind there are four skills you need to max, not just one.

EDIT: Though I guess you could skip out on the EM skill. You cah get that up crazy high on Armor level anyhow.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
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