Intergalactic Summit

What corporations do in Republic space falls into the legislation of the Republic. You don't honestly expect us to detach a battalion of the Imperial Navy into Republic space to deal with this, do you?


Just because you don't see anything, it doesn't mean that nothing is happening. If I have a watch ticking at home in my cupboard and no one is seeing it, does it stop to tick? No. I assure you again - as Cpt. Merdaneth already has - that those that go on illegal slave raids are punished if they're catched. Of course the (understandable) unwillingness of the Republic to work with the Empire's institutions makes it hard to do so in every case.


I could give you some amout of occasions on which I've been sent to take care of illegal slavery, illegal slave raids and those that raid salves illegally.


Who's "the Amarr" you talk about here?


You forget to acknowledge here that they equally quickly reveal that the Republic would take at least an equally hard hit to it's economy and social peace. In fact, we've seen that last time a greater number of slaves was freed by the Empress' decree that the Republic was hit quite harder than the Empire. That's actually part of why you and other Republicans speak of a ploy of the Empress' to damage the Republic.

I have never called for this, as I told you before.

I am not complaining about the Empire running slave raids into the Republic. I fully expect them to do so. I fully expect your corporations to subvert our laws and customs, I fully expect you to try and defeat us by whatever means necessary, and I fully expect you to plan to take every single one of my people into slavery. I am, once again, not pointing out that you are doing something I am not expecting, but that some of the Amarr are saying things that simply do not reflect reality.

It is time for Edaine Numenor to eat crow.

First, when Mr. Khross confronted me on this forum, I reacted defensively, but at the same time, I also decided to investigate my assumptions. I told him to find proof but decided to look for it myself too. I was hoping that my employer would be vindicated, but the deeper I dug, the worse it looked. I have found damning evidence against my employer Joint Harvesting and embarrassing evidence of my own ignorance and false assumption.

I wish to both thank Mr. Khross for his response and apologize for my defensiveness. Now here is the story.

I went to work for Joint Harvesting because ambassador Karin Midular assured the Minmatar and the Gallente that Joint Harvesting had apologized for Amarrian slavery atrocities in the past and had turned from those ways. I thought that this would be a good company to work for in Minmatar space to improve my Amarr standing. Because I had trained Diplomacy, I managed to raise my negative standing to - 0.16 and turn it positive of 1.47 enough to get offers from all kinds of Amarr corps.

It turns out that the deal between Midular and Joint Harvesting was all show and all about money. There is evidence, though not conclusive, that the apology was all fluff. While claiming not to use slave labor, it appears that Joint Harvesting has been secretly bringing slave labor into Minmatar space to work on their plantations there. Hjoramold and Barkrik are two systems where strong evidence exists of the presence of plantations that have used slave labor. Since the discovery, it appears that Joint harvesting has ceased those operations to cover their butts. Notorious criminal Atek Vandano also worked with the Angel cartel to transport slaves disguised as contract workers into the Ani constellation to work on Joint Harvest plantations. The Joint Harvesting Plantation in Barkrik was destroyed by Republic operatives and the slaves en-route were rescued.

The fact that I am still a novice and was rather naive to believe Ambassador Midular without any further investigation, is a painful, stinging lesson. I regret my unintentional hypocrisy but I don't regret the original post because it does expose the continued use and abuse of slaves. These things need to reach the attention of the capsuleer community. I have ceased working for Joint Harvesting and will no longer accept missions from their agents. I pledge to be more careful of who I work for in the future.

Thanks again to all the pilots who took the time to press me on this.

Crow eaten,
Edaine Numenor

I am unaware of such an apology having been made. Perhaps you or someone else could provide the text of the announcement?

Suuolo Numenor,

I can state in full honesty that I am saddened by this revelation. It is one thing to be right about something, it is another thing entirely to hope that you are wrong and have suspicions confirmed.

As stated in the mail I sent you, I do sincerely regret my confrontational tone with you, it was not appropriate and should have been reserved for those I was agitated with at the time, not taken out on you. For that, I also extend another apology.

It is a painful thing to be correct about something, at times.

However, you have demonstrated yourself to be the man of integrity and courage that I originally understood you to be and this brings a level of joy to my heart. It is hard to find such qualities in many these days, so I cherish those few that exemplify them.

I pray with sincerity that your future endeavors do not become proverbial roses, whose beauty and appeal often cloak the thorns beneath. If you ever desire respite in company I would hope you can trust, the Kaashivon Public Hall of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard has its doors open to you.

Bright stars and clear horizons in the days ahead.

Found it. Apparently, JH was given access to some stations in the former Nefantar home constellation of Ani (Barkrik, spefically) after certain key figures in the corporation expressed "regret" for their crimes against the Minmatar people. JH was found to indeed have such plantations in breach of Republic laws. I have not found any information on what actually happened after this was found out.

So yes, the Amarr lied, came to the Republic, broke our laws, took slaves here, etc., years before the war broke out. Color me surprised.

(( COSMOS mission description as http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Scandal_In_Barkrik_-_Deliver_The_Ambassador_%281_of_4%29 and following; I have no clue how this fits in the current post-FW storyline :-/ ))

It's incredibly how willfully you misunderstand my words. Of course I meant that the only thing we did say we would do was declaring it illegal. That we've done. I don't want to go again into the details of why the Empire doesn't enforce it's laws within the Republics borders.
Your claim that nothing is done about it - the declaration aside - is outright wrong: Illegal slave raiders are mostly permanently removed from their business (e.g. by death or slavery), whenever seized, and sharply persecuted. And that is something that is part of the everyday business of the legal institutions of the Empire: It happens on a daily basis. Please do your homework before claiming things like that.


Indeed: The difference is though, that the Republic has an entirely different policy on those that infringed on the Empire's sovereignty and CONCORD's status than vice versa.


Your fleeting generalizations are afoot again. Expression of regrets in regard to crimes committed against the Minmatar is equaled to the promise of refraining from slavery? I mean, come on, everyone visiting the farms of JH in the Empire would've been able to see that those regrets have nothing to do with slavery. Everyone knowing a bit about Amarrian culture knows that slavery in and off itself isn't regarded to be a crime. Everyone knowing about how business is done knows it's done so by saying what sounds agreeable to the party you do business with.
Coloring the actions of a corporation that has been granted clearance to operate within Republic space by Republic institutions (and I doubt it has been Midular's alone) as infringements of the Empire only shows how much you're in need of a scapegoat. Also, I haven't seen any evidence that the rumors about JH using slaves in the Republic are really true - are they still operating in the Republic? If so, I'd guess the rumors have been found to be baseless by Republic authorities, until I see contrary evidence.

Not to mention that I'm quite sure there are similar stories to be told about corporations that are based in the Republic and operate in Empire space.

Not as confused as the OP.

I think it is obvious that 'regrets of crimes committed against the Matari' don't equal to not making use of slaves and that JH is obviously using slave labor in the Empire. I agree with Admiral Blake that so far the rumors seem to be just that: rumors.
I agree that you are confused.


Given your accusations are true: Why else should their presence be allowed or rater: tolerated in space held by the Republic?

First thing that comes to mind would be some clauses in the Yulai convention or CONCORD intervention. The Empire surely isn't happy about the RSS stations there, either. This is quite similar to why you can trade slaves in the Republic's public (capsuleer) market; claiming that this is evidence that the Republic condones slave trade is simply folly.

Lack of evidence does not equal eveidence of your favorite theory.

To avoid snippish replies here, I think it is now necessary to take a step back to look at my actual point.

My claim is that the Empire as it is right now is not frowning upon slavery or the enslavement of other cultures via a reclaiming. There is no evidence of the Empire slowly moving towards a better state regarding their imperialism and subjugation of other cultures (for me, the main relevance here being the Minmatar people). The main argument against this as repeatedly brought forth is the law that forbids taking slaves outside of the Empire; hence why I have repeatedly tried to show (with evidence, albeit not infallible proof) that this law is hollow.

Evidence brought forth so far:
- The Empire called for a "new Reclaiming" and started a new crusade to "teach" us Minmatar
- There have been a continuous trek of slave raids out of Empire space into Republic space, taking our people back into the Republic not to be seen again
- The corporations of the Empire have broken the trust put into them when they were allowed to establish themselves in the Republic by blatantly breaking Republic law

The counter-arguments on the silly side here have been that the slave raids from Empire space back into Empire space are the Republic's problem and that the corporations didn't take any slaves at all, breaking the law of the Republic is perfectly fine (which might be true if the argument was about the law only, but this is only part of the argument). The latter also implies that the Empire's corporations basically smuggled slaves from the Empire into the Republic to make them work in farms here, a claim I find the epitome of silliness, but ok.

The only actual and sensible argument so far I heard is that the Empire is actively fighting the slave raiders into the Republic. I'm glad to hear so (and I'll take your word for it, I have so far not seen evidence of this). But considering the amount of raids and the other evidence brought up so far, I don't think this is changing my original point at all - that the Empire is firmly in favor of a new Reclaiming and conquest of other territories, and that the signs of the Empire calming down a bit there are vastly exaggerated by a few vocal pseudo-progressive Amarrians on IGS.

Now, considering all evidence brought up so far has been refuted, partly with absolutely egregious claims and excuses, I'm curious: What kind of evidence would you consider "actual" evidence?