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So why is CCP supporting the Burn Jita event?

First post First post
Author
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-04-29 21:55:36 UTC
So CCP should step in, stop everyone from having fun, including us, the guys that wardecced us, the guys whoring on GCC killmails, and everyone else who is taking part in this in some way or another - just so that you can do your little freighter run?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Sha Kharn
Seraphim Initiative..
#22 - 2012-04-29 21:55:47 UTC
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
Just want to understand the logic behind the game company taking such a stance.

Piracy, scamming, and griefing, all that I understand. But what is happenign with the "Burn Jita" event is completely different.

I want to know why CCP feels that even thought I pay my $15/mo just like the members of the GF they can do whatever they want, and I cannot. (Example: Going to Jita when GF feels I shouldn't.)

I think that EVE's biggest strength is also it's biggest weakness. It has become a little too much like RL. In ALL mmos, there is nothing a powerful corp, or a guild can do to prevent other people from playing the game any way they like. They may have the best items/gear... the most friends... the most influence.... but there is absolutely nothing allowing the more powerful players to interfere with, or hinder in anyway the game-play of others.

I can directly compare what is happening in EVE to a cable company. Let's say thousands of people are watching TV and their favorite channel gets blocked.

Suddenly a malignant individual decides to hack into the cable network, and blocks this channel. Off course at this point the cable company would try to do whatever they can to track down and deal with this individual.

But what's happening in EVE is more like, the cable company saying "Hmm.. This is interesting... all these people..They are so boring, laying on their couch watching movies.. Let' add a little something into their lives. Let's make them cry and scream with anger because they lack in diversity of emotions. Lets conduct a social experiment of sorts and let this hacker continue what he is doing.... "

Really, I think CCP is giving GF a little too much credit, allowing them to be the force of nature in EVE. The Yang that comes with the Yin, the spoon of tar in the barrel of honey, the black stripe in a pattern of white and black stripes... Well you get the point.

If CCP feels we need a little "spice" in our life, then why not alter those Sansha invasions to go directly into Jita or Amarr, or Rens or whatever... or program NPC pirates to go after mining ships at random times. Who the hell appointed GF to decide when the carebears have been having a too calm a life and need to be "shaken up a bit"?

Honestly I think those who chose the carebear gameplay style are already punished enough. They are essentially blocked out of all the fun gameplay elements. They cannot have access to best loot, they cannot mine the best ore, they cannot roam the world of eve without getting blown up as soon as they step out of their little fenced pen. But they are not choked enough... Lets tighten the noose some more, right?! Wrong.... Press this group of people too hard, and you got no one to grief anymore. No one to block. No one to make cry...

In a sense, this whole thing reminds me of our society, the extreme respect and admiration for professions such as doctors or lawyers and the complete lack of that same respect for those in lower professions. But wait.... We need these people! If no one was flipping burgers, no one was cleaning out the garbage, etc, etc... What kind of the world would be be living in?

Carebears fill an essential role in EVE. Without them, EVE would be missing a lot of what makes it great.

I believe that the best game, is one where people can choose to play any way they like. If you want to be a boring carebear, be a boring carebear. If you want to be a vicious pirate, be one. But the two should not be mixed forcefully because that ruins the gameplay experience for those that do not want to PvP. (there's lowsec and 0.0 for that!) Don't these people also pay the $15/mo fee? And if they do, why is it that they don't deserve to play EVE any way they like without being interrupted?


Quote:


Lead game designer Kristoffer Touborg tells Eurogamer that player-driven events such as Burn Jita are what make Eve Online different from other games.

"We want people to be able to do this. If Goonswarm want to do it, we want them to do it and we want them to have a great time doing it," Lander added. "The worst thing we could do is to stop it happening. It would be appalling for the game. It would be against everything we stand for."


And what the hell do you stand for Kristof? People making other people's life miserable?

Quote:
"The people they're going to hurt now are people who have quite a lot of security," he said. "There's not a lot of turnaround on ships and goods in Empire. I think it might be healthy if we lose a lot of this industrial power, if they have to go back and save up for their ships again and be a part of the cycle of life everyone else is a part of."


You "think".... I "think" it would be "healthy" for EVE if the Goons lost a lot of their power, but they are losing nothing aside from their ships an a small part of their wealth, while the Carebears are losing everything.




In case op feels the need to remove fail post. Make a bed go sleep in it.
The Groundskeeper
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2012-04-29 21:56:23 UTC
I pay my fifteen dollars a month and yet RA stop me going to NOL to pick up my blaster worm fix your game asshats why do you support these griefers unless I get those and my drake out of R97 which ROL insist on griefing me by not letting me pick up then I shall be forced to go and play another space-based sandbox well anyway that's all for now later dudes
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2012-04-29 21:56:40 UTC
im sorry we ganked you please come back to jita for your apology package

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Frederick Sanger
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-04-29 22:04:50 UTC
It's a shame that you didn't care enough about your belongings to sign up for our Offical Goonswarm Federation Insurance Protection Policy (OGFIPP) which would have prevented the loss of your internet spaceship. Maybe next month you can plan ahead and prevent this type of unnecessary tragedy.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-04-29 22:12:52 UTC
"prevent other people from playing the game any way they like"

So you want CCP to not let Goons play how they want so you can play how you want? Civil issues should be decided on the battlefield. If Goons are exploiting something, then let the "government" step in.

Highsec already has a lot of safety nets built in. Be happy high sec is relatively safe. Goons are only once alliance. There is nothing stopping all the other alliance ganging up and splattering the Goons.

Anyway, high sec is about to get a lot safer with the x-pack. The Goons are doing one last blow-out. This is what makes Eve "fun".

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#27 - 2012-04-29 22:15:51 UTC
If the weekend long Burn Jita event pisses you off, wait til the new and improved month long Hulkageddon starts tomorrow.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Spy 21
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-04-29 22:15:59 UTC
Evil Brock Nelson wrote:
OP should set up a booth and bend over so that everyone can have a turn at him.


That was the meanest post I have ever read.

...


And one of the funniest... +1

S

Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3...

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-04-29 22:18:21 UTC
Your high sec problems with goons can be traced back to broken null mechanics. The sooner you high sec inhabitants get behind real changes that fix null mechanics the faster these issues with bored null power blocks will go away. It is a butterfly effect for sure.
Lictor Yeva
WoonGaffe
#30 - 2012-04-29 22:34:37 UTC
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
SNIP

I can directly compare what is happening in EVE to a cable company. Let's say thousands of people are watching TV and their favorite channel gets blocked.

Suddenly a malignant individual decides to hack into the cable network, and blocks this channel. Off course at this point the cable company would try to do whatever they can to track down and deal with this individual.

But what's happening in EVE is more like, the cable company saying "Hmm.. This is interesting... all these people..They are so boring, laying on their couch watching movies.. Let' add a little something into their lives. Let's make them cry and scream with anger because they lack in diversity of emotions. Lets conduct a social experiment of sorts and let this hacker continue what he is doing.... "


I think that analogy is pretty far off. A hacker circumvents the terms of service of the cable company (and the laws of the land), but the Goons are clearly operating within the rules of the sandbox.

A more appropriate analogy is that of unsportsmanlike conduct in any sports match. The Goons are abiding the rules, but their strategy of hurting the other players is somewhat questionable at times and there's an indecent amount of celebrating after each touchdown.

However, I completely disagree with you that CCP should interfere with an event like this one. It is clearly not sustainable, so it will be over soon enough and all you have to do is not fly around in an expensive ship in Jita. There are plenty of other systems in this game for you to play in for a few days while Jita is burning.





m3rb3aSt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-04-29 22:36:23 UTC
Every time they gank someone stupid like you they lose their ship. Eventually they wont have enough sec status to even go in jita. Just shut up and deal with it.
Xython
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2012-04-29 22:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Xython
A few reasons why they support it.

1. EVE is a Sandbox. That means there is no official rule requiring people to play nice or even be civil to each other. CCP has upheld this belief through thick and thin, albeit with some recent missteps (the 180 on the Boomarang tactic, for example). Simply put, they don't really "support" it per say, they support the rule framework and the culture of the Sandbox that allows us to do it if we want.

2. EVE is unique amongst the MMOs because it is a Sandbox. It is literally it's biggest selling point. No other MMO comes even close to offering what EVE offers -- and stories like this are perfect examples that CCP can point to and go "You can't get that experience in WOW."

3. The EVE Economy is absolutely ******. Years of RMT, of Botting, of "free" minerals have done an absolute number on the economy. While CCP would never directly intervene, they certainly welcome player self correction. Goons attacked the Gallente Ice fields not because it would **** off highsec kids -- well, not entirely so -- but because our logistics guys looked at the economy as a whole and realized that the entire economy is based on a few hundred people cheating using ice bot accounts. That's ****** up, and you don't have to be a Goon to agree. Ice needs to be moved to lowsec or even Nullsec, and moved fast.

4. The risk/reward balance between Highsec and Nullsec is even more ******. Hulkageddon, the Ice Interdiction, Burn Jita, these are all symptoms of a bigger disease -- the death of the PVP Ecosystem in Nullsec. This is going to be hard for some Highsec players to understand, but there are Nullsec players who do enjoy Mining, Crafting, and other Logistics roles. Hell, The Mittani originally was a miner. The problem is, with botters and other cheaters, as well as the flood of "Nullsec Minerals" coming from other sources (Drone Poo, Refining, etc) there was literally no reason to ever mine in Nullsec. It just didn't make any sense at all in comparison to mining in Highsec, even with the minerals being slightly less valuable.

5. EVE is, at it's heart, a PVP game. Everything in EVE is a zero sum game, save some Isk Faucets that CCP are desperately trying to plug. Everything you do in EVE is either working with (in temporary partnership) or working against other players. Crafting, Mining, Market Shinanigans, even if you never fit a gun to your ship, you are PVPing.

7. Highsec players feel they are too safe. Simply put, there are those out there who read the warnings and thought that they were bunk, because Jita's a "safe" system. They were wrong. If you want to be safe in EVE -- fit a tank. Get a friend to fly a combat ship or a logi ship with shield reps to keep you safe. Don't just think you can streak naked across the Jita sky carrying a huge sack of money and holding a sign saying "Bite me, Goonies" and not expect to be mugged.

8. If you fell prey to the Goons in Burn Jita, you deserved it. CCP (and Goons!) literally did everything they could to warn people not to fly big ships in Jita. We announced it a month ahead of time. There were hundreds of threads premptively complaining about it before we even began. And CCP put a warning up on the freaking login screen, which bent the spirit of the Sandbox. Simply put, if you did get ganked, you had no excuse. EVE is a multiplayer game, and ignoring the entirety of the playerbase outside of spreadsheets is not the spirit of any MMO.
ToG
Pillowsoft
#33 - 2012-04-29 22:49:17 UTC
Andski wrote:
So CCP should step in, stop everyone from having fun, including us, the guys that wardecced us, the guys whoring on GCC killmails, and everyone else who is taking part in this in some way or another - just so that you can do your little freighter run?


It's not CCPs problem. If anything it's a Concorde issue and they should have stepped in, but they didn't (probably due to the bureaucracy).
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#34 - 2012-04-29 22:51:02 UTC
Xython wrote:
A few reasons why they support it.

1. EVE is a Sandbox. That means there is no official rule requiring people to play nice or even be civil to each other. CCP has upheld this belief through thick and thin, albeit with some recent missteps (the 180 on the Boomarang tactic, for example). Simply put, they don't really "support" it per say, they support the rule framework and the culture of the Sandbox that allows us to do it if we want.

2. EVE is unique amongst the MMOs because it is a Sandbox. It is literally it's biggest selling point. No other MMO comes even close to offering what EVE offers -- and stories like this are perfect examples that CCP can point to and go "You can't get that experience in WOW."

3. The EVE Economy is absolutely ******. Years of RMT, of Botting, of "free" minerals have done an absolute number on the economy. While CCP would never directly intervene, they certainly welcome player self correction. Goons attacked the Gallente Ice fields not because it would **** off highsec kids -- well, not entirely so -- but because our logistics guys looked at the economy as a whole and realized that the entire economy is based on a few hundred people cheating using ice bot accounts. That's ****** up, and you don't have to be a Goon to agree. Ice needs to be moved to lowsec or even Nullsec, and moved fast.

4. The risk/reward balance between Highsec and Nullsec is even more ******. Hulkageddon, the Ice Interdiction, Burn Jita, these are all symptoms of a bigger disease -- the death of the PVP Ecosystem in Nullsec. This is going to be hard for some Highsec players to understand, but there are Nullsec players who do enjoy Mining, Crafting, and other Logistics roles. Hell, The Mittani originally was a miner. The problem is, with botters and other cheaters, as well as the flood of "Nullsec Minerals" coming from other sources (Drone Poo, Refining, etc) there was literally no reason to ever mine in Nullsec. It just didn't make any sense at all in comparison to mining in Highsec, even with the minerals being slightly less valuable.

5. EVE is, at it's heart, a PVP game. Everything in EVE is a zero sum game, save some Isk Faucets that CCP are desperately trying to plug. Everything you do in EVE is either working with (in temporary partnership) or working against other players. Crafting, Mining, Market Shinanigans, even if you never fit a gun to your ship, you are PVPing.

7. Highsec players feel they are too safe. Simply put, there are those out there who read the warnings and thought that they were bunk, because Jita's a "safe" system. They were wrong. If you want to be safe in EVE -- fit a tank. Get a friend to fly a combat ship or a logi ship with shield reps to keep you safe. Don't just think you can streak naked across the Jita sky carrying a huge sack of money and holding a sign saying "Bite me, Goonies" and not expect to be mugged.

8. If you fell prey to the Goons in Burn Jita, you deserved it. CCP (and Goons!) literally did everything they could to warn people not to fly big ships in Jita. We announced it a month ahead of time. There were hundreds of threads premptively complaining about it before we even began. And CCP put a warning up on the freaking login screen, which bent the spirit of the Sandbox. Simply put, if you did get ganked, you had no excuse. EVE is a multiplayer game, and ignoring the entirety of the playerbase outside of spreadsheets is not the spirit of any MMO.

Your posts almost make me want to read the PA forums, just to see if they are full of posts of this calibre.

Then I read your posts on the goon forums Shocked

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Yummy Tears
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-04-29 22:53:06 UTC
I endorse this whine thread.
Zubrette
R3d Fire
#36 - 2012-04-29 22:57:58 UTC
So lets punish PLAYERS for generating CONTENT (who are completely within the rules)? Stupid and detrimental logic

I'm ex-bob, you honestly don't see me crying that goons burning jita, dissolving my alliance, murderan my titans and home.

Seriously, man up, defend your home.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#37 - 2012-04-29 22:59:44 UTC
The whole, "Mittens and Fanfest Incident" all the way to "State of the goonion" and even further to "burn Jita" alone with *tinfoil hat on* The "bug" that gives you GCC for shooting flashy/-10 PODS in high hec. (which CCP is refusing to fix until after "burn Jita") Is really all a marketing ploy to show what people can do in their sandbox.

I'm willing to wager that there will be a trailer to go with this "burning of the Jita" Hell, they already have it on the splash screen with fancy graphics on the login screen....

...

Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-04-29 23:00:56 UTC
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
<<<>>>

And if they do, why is it that they don't deserve to play EVE any way they like without being interrupted?


You "think".... I "think" it would be "healthy" for EVE if the Goons lost a lot of their power, but they are losing nothing aside from their ships an a small part of their wealth, while the Carebears are losing everything.


Seriously - have you spent (however long you've been in Eve) totally ignoring the rest of the Universe? Did you do *any* research all *ALL* about what this game is about? Why is Eve so good? Why is it so hard to put down? Why do we all come back (with the recent meltdown last summer excluded - The account I canceled is *not* coming back) after trying other games?

Because as the player above me so succinctly put it - Eve is unique.

Eve does what no other game can do, and does it well. Not great, they've stumbled a few times (CCP) but they have recovered.

What does Eve do that no other game can do?

"There is no *SAFE* place in Eve".



Unless your docked, you can be attacked. All this is, is an "attack" on a grand scale. I used to be a complete care-bear - didn't want to fight, just "play my way". It takes some time to figure out (and some are faster than others) but pvp is *not* a boogeyman...

A "faint warp scrambler" (did I get that right?) works the same for a newb as a vet (+/- some range). A one week old toon can tackle a 10 year vet.

It won't last forever.


Enjoy "Burn Jita" - because at it's core - it *IS* what makes Eve fun.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Forest Archer
Swamp Panthers
The Wraithguard.
#39 - 2012-04-29 23:01:51 UTC
One of the greatest quotes of Goons "were not here to destroy the game, we're here to destroy your game" and when people play within the game mechanics and rules and still complain go back to WoW or hello kitty.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post

Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#40 - 2012-04-29 23:03:46 UTC
Quote:

I want to know why CCP feels that even thought I pay my $15/mo just like the members of the GF they can do whatever they want, and I cannot. (Example: Going to Jita when GF feels I shouldn't.)


Welcome to the sandbox, they are doing whatever they want, you can also do whatever you want. Nothing is stopping you from moving a freighter through Jita, but nowhere in the rules of highsec does it say nobody is allowed to shoot you.