EVE General Discussion

Subject posted as 'Why the hate on care bears', but actually, this is more of an examination on null sec/low sec motives.
And a suggestion - leave things as they are (we'll come back to this near end of post)

(posted from a care bears perspective)

Most of the Eve Universe is 'PVP'able, by a huge percentage.
The question only comes up in 0.5 or higher.

So, anybody that WANTS to pvp, has plent of space to do it. That's not a question.
Anybody that doesn't WANT to, can stay in high sec. That's by how the Eve was designed.

So first question, if care bears stay in high sec to avoid pvp, why is that such an issue? Why can't those that want to pvp, just pvp each other?

Hypothesis, they want easy kills, they want big kills. PVP targets are lean and mean. Care bears are big fat and soft. They make those that want pvp drool. (Note - still not sure why it can't be accepted, if you want to PVP, PVP each other). So they want to force the big fat soft targets that don't want to PVP, to PVP.

Ok, given that, let's consider this.

PVP want a soft, target rich environment.
Who builds the targets?
- PVP - lean mean targets. No fun, you actually have to try and pay attention to what you are doing.
- Care bears - big soft targets. Gank fun. Dont have to pay attention, just set up the situation and ****.

Keeping that in mind, consider this:
- If you drive the care bears away, less targets.
- If you kill all the production capacity of care bears, less targets.

Now, the last item to keep in mind. Agreed, complete and utter safety is bad for EVE design. Takes away the edge. Takes away the fear. But its not complete safety, is it? As it is, there is already a large element of danger. I think we can discount any large demands for complete/utter safety in high sec, that would be a change in game design.

So finally, the suggestion:
- Keep things as they are.
- Dont try to change things (THIS directed at PVP, that wants more freedom into high sec, to kill care bears)
- Give care bears the chance/opportunity to 'breed' (bring in more targets, er, players)
- Let care bears have the production capacity to build the targets you crave to destroy.

And the thing is, think about it, eventually the large group of care bears evolves, build skills, get strong, and start making forays into null sec, and guess what, THATS what you want - you want fresh new energy, you want players going into low/null sec on their own will, with drive to go in farther, to fight the battles against you that you crave.

(I've never understood the drive to take way productive/economic capacity in high sec, when the ultimate result of that will just be, more, bigger targets to destroy?)

It isn't that carebears just want to stay in high sec. It's that they want to make non-consentual pvp, the cornerstone of EVE online, either a bannable offense or just plain impossible in highsec. They want to have a place that is 100% safe where they can make their money and not have to think about anything.

Essentially, carebears want to turn Highsec, and likely the entirety of EVE into this: http://youtu.be/cD69PAIqiYo

The whole concept of eve is that when you undock, you're clicking a little button that says "I want to PVP".

So in reality, those that want to PVP, do PVP each other. It's just that the whining carebear masses don't realize that the undock button is the "I want to PVP" button.

Most people in high sec long on for a couple hours do random stuff and then log off.

PVP. space politics and all that stuff doesn't affect them in the slightest, my trade character has lived and mined in high sec since 2007 and has never been shot at nevermind died.

PVP just doesn't affect the majority of people in high sec so I doubt they really care one way or another.

If that was true we wouldn't have highsec space.

Every space in eve has different rules of engagement, I've never understood why players want to try to enforce the rules they chose to play in onto others.

All of EVE is PVP, in the forms of either warfare or economic competition against other players.

Granting anyone exemption from the warfare aspect of EVE PVP while being able to compete in economic PVP is absolutely unacceptable and unjustifiable, and as we have seen in the past, merely diminishes the entire game.

assumption that carebears will venture into null if you only leave them alone for long enough is wrong, other than that op has a point.

also Lotka Volterra because it's a piece of eve history and fits well into this thread

wrong, this is why concord is not instant and highsec has never garunteed you security

you're scum who deserves to be slaughtered and slaughtered you must be

Just Alter,

The only way to respond to somebody like you would be if I want into SNL Church Lady mode, but I'm going to refraind from that.

Just Alter, answer the question: Why can't those that want to PVP, PVP each other? (I'm particularly interested in your response to this)

And as for Jame's manifesto, I'm not going to go into that or this thread will get derailed. I'm asking a simple question, and making a suggestion.

There are already many different ways to PVP in high sec, but high sec is high sec, and should stay as high sec (for the long term health of the environment, for the reasons/details I gave above)

The disdain resides in the fact that whiny muppets in high sec have had numerous nerfs pushed through over the years because they want to be completely safe. The simple fact is almost none of you would die if you actually were paying attention and playing the game.

As long as you want to be AFK sheep grazing the pastures of high security space there will always be people thinning the herd. People who want something just because they trained a skill and bought a ship and also expect to have an AFK game style catered to should damn well have to face consequences.