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AFK Cloaker solution
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Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-05-06 03:33:19 UTC
Lin Gerie wrote:
Okay so I'll admit I didn't read much of the suggestion or the comments as I've seen this stated a lot and it brings up questions to me.

1. Why is a single AFK cloaky a bad thing?
2. If it is such a large problem why not just give a cloak module an activation timer of like 120-240 seconds with cloaky ships getting a 75-99% reduction in cap costs per cycle? Or is there a giant problem with giving a cap cost to cloak mods?


1.
cloaked ship sits in system (visible in local) for five days, durring said time , player may/may not be afk, but action within the system stops. Miners dont mine/ratters dont rat, because they are afraid of the cloaked ship having a cyno and tracking down the movements of the miners/raters and dropping a combat group on them. In the game of EVE, nearly everything has a counter, not everything, but most things. Adding counters to metagaming tactics makes it more worthwhile for the small group/individual player within the whole of an alliance.

2.
there are legitimate reasons to be cloaked in a system, and there are metagame (which some argue are also legitimate) reasons to be cloaked in system. there isnt a problem giving cloaks a cap cost, or adding other long timer ways to catch afk cloaked ships.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-05-06 08:51:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Lin Gerie wrote:
Okay so I'll admit I didn't read much of the suggestion or the comments as I've seen this stated a lot and it brings up questions to me.

1. Why is a single AFK cloaky a bad thing?
2. If it is such a large problem why not just give a cloak module an activation timer of like 120-240 seconds with cloaky ships getting a 75-99% reduction in cap costs per cycle? Or is there a giant problem with giving a cap cost to cloak mods?


1.
cloaked ship sits in system (visible in local) for five days, durring said time , player may/may not be afk, but action within the system stops. Miners dont mine/ratters dont rat, because they are afraid of the cloaked ship having a cyno and tracking down the movements of the miners/raters and dropping a combat group on them. In the game of EVE, nearly everything has a counter, not everything, but most things. Adding counters to metagaming tactics makes it more worthwhile for the small group/individual player within the whole of an alliance.

2.
there are legitimate reasons to be cloaked in a system, and there are metagame (which some argue are also legitimate) reasons to be cloaked in system. there isnt a problem giving cloaks a cap cost, or adding other long timer ways to catch afk cloaked ships.




There absolutely is a problem with giving cloaks timers and such.

CCP will never give you that level of safety.

Until local is removed no changes to cloaking are feasible or agreeable by cloak users.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-05-06 09:40:41 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!

REMOVE LOCAL!

then none of this **** will matter

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
radecz3k
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-05-06 09:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: radecz3k
Jack Carrigan wrote:
radecz3k wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Preybird MKII wrote:
Random whining, crying and screaming about AFK cloakers


Remove cloaked ships from local. Problem solved.


Mate slowly. You just said you want to give more advantage to ships that are atm to much powerfull.


Here's the thing. You are crying about ships that can't affect you due to the fact that it is cloaked and AFK is ridiculous.

If it isn't in local, it's basically acting like WHS, and you don't know it's there.


Who is crying? I dont cry i want a gun to shoot you :) And pls dont show us talks about wh, wh gives more income than 0.0 so its worth to take any risk there. Also wh is problematic for claoker himself. AFK is metagaming like someone said. Im not afraid of cloakies, people just go other systems, but i want a gun to force afkers to fight and be active, not only make people problems because they can aford PC running 24/7 and not taking any actions. Besdies did you tryed to catch clakers? Dude in ship for 30M isk, who you need to have a bite 24/7, and after he will fal into trap he will go reship and he will be back in 30 minutes. His effort =0, yours to fight with him=hours of game, camping, using many man to fight with his pc.

We are fighitng not with cloak itself but with metagaming and amout of effort need on boths sides to make them fight.
Aleksander Erkkinen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-05-06 10:19:29 UTC
radecz3k wrote:
We are fighitng not with cloak itself but with metagaming and amout of effort need on boths sides to make them fight.

Wrong. If this was at all your agenda, you would be suggesting that players who are AFK get logged off if no modules besides cloaks are running for more than X time. Instead you whine and scream about nerfing cloaks and making them totally worthless. Almost every suggestion in this thread has been "make it so cloaks are completely useless in this game." You should be able to see why this would be perceived as a nerf cloaks thread having little or nothing to do with the "metagame" aspect of it.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-05-06 10:29:09 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Kusum Fawn wrote:
because they are afraid



Man up, get organised, fly with a corp that has a ship replacement program and that'll offer some protection.


The problem here is afk corp CEO's



There is a joke about two guys walking across an African plain. One of them sees that they are being stalked by a cheetah.
When he turns to tell his friend this, he notices that he is putting on his running shoes.

He say's "What are you doing? You'll never out-run a cheetah."

His friend say's "I don't have to out-run the cheetah, I only have to out-run you"



My point is, If you want to feel safer from that afk cloaker, make yourselves a more difficult target than the bunch of girly-bears in the next constellation over.



Edit. If my lone ratting ship gets hot-dropped I would feel flattered that they felt they needed to bring such a force to take me down. A Pilgrim would be enough to finish me.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#87 - 2012-05-06 11:15:42 UTC
radecz3k wrote:
His effort =0, yours to fight with him=hours of game, camping, using many man to fight with his pc.


there should be no effort just sitting somewhere doing nothing. This is all right. The space is not yours.
There should be no way to deny someone the possibility of just sitting somewhere doing nothing. The space is not yours.

So the way it is currently is absolutely ok stop whining.
El Geo
Warcrows
#88 - 2012-05-06 11:42:48 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I think there should be this probe that your ship jettisons that can't move, but stays in position for two hours and projects a field around it that decloaks any ship for 2000 meters around. Additionally you could give it 27,500 m^3 of cargo space and be able to rename it, because why the hell not?


i lol'd

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El Geo
Warcrows
#89 - 2012-05-06 12:04:01 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
A proposed solution:
lots of stuff


I personally dont like the idea of a decloaking probe, i think it does sound overpowered and easy to abuse for gate camps whereas a dscan option well, im useless at dscanning myself and ive only met a few people that are really quick with it so i felt that was a better option.
(Although i do like the sound of a depth charge type decloaking device, i just dont think its workable unless its like a bomb where you set the range and fire it in a direction, wait x minutes for reload).

I also agree cloaked ships should disapear from local (or at least covert ops ships should), nullsec is too easy for big alliances to just run around in big blob controlling vast areas of space they dont even live in.

Like i keep saying, cat and mouse is better than cat and station, if people have the tools to 'hunt' cloakers, and cloakers have the tools to actually stay hidden (like in w-space) then this can only encourage people to be outside rather than 'afk' cloaked while the rest sit in station, chances are these so called 'afk' cloakers (if anything like me) are actually very active, checking bounces, watching jumpbridges and running dscans watching your anomalies anyway

you have my votes on

- some sort of destroyer class ship for the 'subhunting' job, i think it should be weak and hard to use but able to travel with blops gangs (and HIGHLY speciaalized)
- covert ops for black ops ships
- remove covert ops cloakers from local
- not decloaking when you disconect

Currently i think wormhole space offers much better room for strategy and tactics than anywhere else in eve, you have as RnK put it "the drawbridge", stealth ACTUALLY works, small corps/alliances hold systems and make nice isk, systems can be seiged by other small entities (or large), theres risk, people mine etc within all that and ive never seen a single thread on "make local show everyone in wormhole space"

PS - Can we stop talking about cloaking like the only people that ever do it are afk please? no more nonsense about decloak timers or fuel for coverts, the latter being the most ridiculous idea ive heard of so far.

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Malen Nenokal
HEX Reconnaissance and Reclamation
#90 - 2012-05-06 14:31:25 UTC
Cloaked ships can't do anything. If local is the only tool you rely on for survival, you are doing it wrong.
El Geo
Warcrows
#91 - 2012-05-06 22:51:19 UTC
tbh im quite surprised no ones mentioned all those people who, when you enter local either dock, pos up or CLOAK

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Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#92 - 2012-05-06 23:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
There is no "AFK cloaking" problem, there is a Local Chat Intel problem that causes some to use "AFK cloaking" to somewhat overcome this problem.

For a new idea on fixing Local Chat check out my proposal Here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=105499&find=unread
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-05-07 20:18:20 UTC
radecz3k wrote:
Who is crying? I dont cry i want a gun to shoot you :) And pls dont show us talks about wh, wh gives more income than 0.0 so its worth to take any risk there. Also wh is problematic for claoker himself. AFK is metagaming like someone said. Im not afraid of cloakies, people just go other systems, but i want a gun to force afkers to fight and be active, not only make people problems because they can aford PC running 24/7 and not taking any actions. Besdies did you tryed to catch clakers? Dude in ship for 30M isk, who you need to have a bite 24/7, and after he will fal into trap he will go reship and he will be back in 30 minutes. His effort =0, yours to fight with him=hours of game, camping, using many man to fight with his pc.

We are fighitng not with cloak itself but with metagaming and amout of effort need on boths sides to make them fight.


You can have one the same time cloak ships get a force undock button.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#94 - 2012-05-07 20:54:26 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
You can have one the same time cloak ships get a force undock button.

It should look like a flush handle on the toilet tank....

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#95 - 2012-05-07 21:11:12 UTC
So what if cloakers can go afk? Oh you can't mine and rat? So what? Why should anyone care? You want all the gain with minimal risk. It's pathetic.
Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#96 - 2012-05-22 12:34:31 UTC
A compromise:


Cloaking has cycle time.

Cloaked ships do not show up in local unless they turn off their cloaks.

Cloaky ships can cloak even when affected by the gate cloak to counter this, they're covert ops ships so they hacked the gates etc etc, make up an excuse.

This eliminates cloakies being spotted and everyone fleeing.

This eliminates cloaky afking, and being able to stay in a system for a longer duratation without actually being present in the game.



This would only apply to covert ops ships, and not the ships that simply fit a prototype cloak and are done with it.

The prototype cloaks have a cycle timer but cannot be activated during gate cloak and show up in local as usual.

This change will mean that
A: Any threat is at least online and playing the game
B: You can't spam trial accounts to do this.
C: Cov ops ship get a significant buff and will actually be useful as scouting tools for low/null.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2012-05-22 17:36:05 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
As an expert in AFK Cloaking I will now cloak up in the system you live in and kill you and your friends repeatedly until you learn how to actually deal will AFK Cloakers or until you abandon 'your' space for highsec. If you consider this a teaching experience, then you can only learn from your failures.



lol, you are going to do this while your afk... are you a botter?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2012-05-22 17:39:03 UTC
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
A compromise:


Cloaking has cycle time.

Cloaked ships do not show up in local unless they turn off their cloaks.

Cloaky ships can cloak even when affected by the gate cloak to counter this, they're covert ops ships so they hacked the gates etc etc, make up an excuse.

This eliminates cloakies being spotted and everyone fleeing.

This eliminates cloaky afking, and being able to stay in a system for a longer duratation without actually being present in the game.



This would only apply to covert ops ships, and not the ships that simply fit a prototype cloak and are done with it.

The prototype cloaks have a cycle timer but cannot be activated during gate cloak and show up in local as usual.

This change will mean that
A: Any threat is at least online and playing the game
B: You can't spam trial accounts to do this.
C: Cov ops ship get a significant buff and will actually be useful as scouting tools for low/null.


no... cloaking doesn't need a nerf to deal with people who are not even activily at their keyboard. the "no local for any cloaked ship unless the player chats is a good idea though,.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]