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How highsec miners threaten EVE, and how we can stop them. Manifesto II.

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Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#441 - 2012-04-27 23:49:24 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I've just gone back to the OP and read the whole of his massively long winded post, on reflection he does actually make some good points, it's just hidden in hyperbole. I retract my previous comment about him crying.

Going back to a post I made earlier about how I would love to move my PVE operations to lo/null, are there actually any corps/alliances based in these areas that would welcome a PVE player who wants to continue with PVE, has no experience of PVP but would be willing to learn even if it's only as cannon fodder/hero tackle? Or am I still a worthless pubbie who deserves to die in a fire?

I'm a carebear yes, but I'm willing to expand my horizons, I know this isn't recruitment, it's a hypthetical question Lol


I think the problem is that if they want a primarily pve focused player in nullsec, they're better off just getting a bot. They're less whiny, less prone to spying or corp theft, they work longer hours, and they're less likely to die to stupid ****.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#442 - 2012-04-27 23:51:59 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
One reason why I support the suicide gankers over the miners (despite not belonging to either group) is that at least the suicide gankers are intelligent enough to write well thought out argument as to why they think they are right rather than create identical whine threads like the miners do.

Quality over quantity, huh.

Makes sense in a forums enviroment.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Epic Fail Troll
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#443 - 2012-04-27 23:52:21 UTC
Epic Toasting

11/10
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#444 - 2012-04-27 23:53:00 UTC
To anyone thinking the OP is right or even serious:

YOU are the punch line to his joke.

And I have to admit it's pretty funny.

To the OP:

Well played P!

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2012-04-27 23:53:27 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I've just gone back to the OP and read the whole of his massively long winded post, on reflection he does actually make some good points, it's just hidden in hyperbole. I retract my previous comment about him crying.

Going back to a post I made earlier about how I would love to move my PVE operations to lo/null, are there actually any corps/alliances based in these areas that would welcome a PVE player who wants to continue with PVE, has no experience of PVP but would be willing to learn even if it's only as cannon fodder/hero tackle? Or am I still a worthless pubbie who deserves to die in a fire?

I'm a carebear yes, but I'm willing to expand my horizons, I know this isn't recruitment, it's a hypthetical question Lol


I think the problem is that if they want a primarily pve focused player in nullsec, they're better off just getting a bot. They're less whiny, less prone to spying or corp theft, they work longer hours, and they're less likely to die to stupid ****.

If this is everyone's answer, why should non ship to ship PvP'ers even want to join the rest of the game?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#446 - 2012-04-28 00:01:18 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
When they moved L5 to low sec, not a single hi seccer went there any more, end of.

"Better 10M per hour in hi sec than 100M per hour in low sec".

That's why hi sec should not exist.

Well, I'm sure they can make a lot more than 10m per hour in highsec. Not sure how easily one would make 100m per hour in lowsec, unless you mean L5s give that.


10M if you move L4 in low sec, so all they have left are L3. 100M/h in low sec is doable in L4 if you know WTF you are doing.

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Corbin Blair
Doomheim
#447 - 2012-04-28 00:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Corbin Blair
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Going back to a post I made earlier about how I would love to move my PVE operations to lo/null, are there actually any corps/alliances based in these areas that would welcome a PVE player who wants to continue with PVE, has no experience of PVP but would be willing to learn even if it's only as cannon fodder/hero tackle? Or am I still a worthless pubbie who deserves to die in a fire? Lol

Yes, yes there are. My last null corp had a guy that could barely fly a BC. I myself joined it when that character was about a month old and could also barely fly a bc. We joined at about the same time and were the corp "newbies" together, although I had experience already and just had a new character. He was completely new at the game, but both of us were out on PvP roams with them in under a week after joining. They even let me use thoraxes at first because I didn't want to have to replace more expensive ships yet and we were too small to have a reimbursement policy. On nights where we did group PvE in the deadspace they even let the two of us newbies keep the salvage for ourselves. It was our job to kill the cruisers and frigates to save the battleships the annoyance of trying to hit them. The only thing keeping you from going to 0.0 is yourself. Hell even goons accept newbies in frigates as long as they hang out on the something awful forum.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#448 - 2012-04-28 00:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Takseen wrote:

I think the problem is that if they want a primarily pve focused player in nullsec, they're better off just getting a bot. They're less whiny, less prone to spying or corp theft, they work longer hours, and they're less likely to die to stupid ****.


I thought this was probably the case but hoped otherwise, last time I was looking in the recruitment channel the only response I got from a nullsec entity was a GSF recruiter who said that PVE wasn't a problem, as soon as I saw GSF my reply was that I didn't have a 500 million security deposit and I'd move my own stuff, the convo kind of died.

Please someone in lo/null shatter my beliefs and live up to my hopes, I'm fairly sure that there's many a highsec player that would love to live in lo/null but are put off by the unrealistically high bar you set and the recruitment scams you pull.

I want to believe, I truly do but you make it hard to.

Corbin Blair, I understand that the null corps will take on noobs, GSF are slightly different, they have an OOG community to draw upon.

But as a PVE player I'm seen as scum and no one there wants anything to do with players like me. I'm willing to PVP, I don't mind dying in a fire, but I like my PVE to.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2012-04-28 00:04:01 UTC
Corbin Blair wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Going back to a post I made earlier about how I would love to move my PVE operations to lo/null, are there actually any corps/alliances based in these areas that would welcome a PVE player who wants to continue with PVE, has no experience of PVP but would be willing to learn even if it's only as cannon fodder/hero tackle? Or am I still a worthless pubbie who deserves to die in a fire? Lol

Yes, yes there are. My last null corp had a guy that could barely fly a BC. I myself joined it when that character was about a month old and could also barely fly a bc. We joined at about the same time and were the corp "newbies" together, although I had experience already and just had a new character. He was completely new at the game, but both of us were out on PvP roams with them in under a week after joining. They even let me use thoraxes at first because I didn't want to have to replace more expensive ships yet and we were too small to have a reimbursement policy. On nights where we did group PvE in the complexes they even let the two of us newbies keep the salvage for ourselves. It was our job to kill the cruisers and frigates to save the battleships the annoyance of trying to hit them. The only thing keeping you from going to 0.0 is yourself. Hell even goons accept newbies in frigates as long as they hang out on the something awful forum.

His question seems more focused on PvE'ers and industrialist that new players.
Plekto
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2012-04-28 00:04:18 UTC
Wrong, wrong wrong.


No NOT move everything to low/0. That gives 0 more isk for free. Take anomalies. Since the grav sites spawn based upon the minerals in the region, the last grav site I ran across in 0.0 had a whopping 350,000 unit rock of Spodumain. It was literally the size of a mothership and I calculated that it would take two hulks almost 26 hours to mine it all.

There is quite literally isk flowing out of the walls and floors in high and 0. To the point where CCP estimates that the economy is adding 36 trillion more isk every month that is being removed. And that does *not* include PLEX. (100,000+ sales last month) That brings the total for February to a positive cash flow of 86 TRILLION isk more than is being taken out.

Inflation is the result. Massive inflation - on the order of almost 100% in two years.

It has to be moved only to low. And in a big way. Force players to meet and interact rather violently in the middle region to make money. And by force, I mean quite literally to the point of removing anomalies and belts and so on. It's been mined for 5+ years and well, maybe it's time for the belts to start being permanently mined out.

Idle all you want. But making big isk will require cashing in PLEX (hoarding it is bad for the economy, after all) or getting your rear end to low and playing the game.
Corbin Blair
Doomheim
#451 - 2012-04-28 00:07:20 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

I thought this was probably the case but hoped otherwise, last time I was looking in the recruitment channel the only response I got from a nullsec entity was a GSF recruiter who said that PVE wasn't a problem, as soon as I saw GSF my reply was that I didn't have a 500 million security deposit and I'd move my own stuff the convo kind of died.

They only recruit people from the something awful forum. The "security deposit" is a scam. There's usually at least a post a day in crime and punishment from some stupid victim who didn't google the alliance and didn't read their wiki, where it states that the deposit is a scam and gives the real instructions for joining.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#452 - 2012-04-28 00:08:32 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:

Yes, AFK mining and botting are repugnant - EVE is a game you play actively, to most folk, and those who bot or AFK mine are playing this game in bad faith. But we're still playing the same game - still living in the same universe.


The fun thing...years ago....

Then today I read how bad are miners who don't go to 0.0, figures.

That's because being someone who only wants to mine doesn't change when you go to 0.0

AFK mining is one thing, but being horribly surprised when you return and are in station because of being blown up and podded is another. How much people will afk mine in 0.0 depends on various things, but blaming CONCORD when someone catches and kills your hulk/covetor isn't a factor.



I might be tired, I don't understand how this reply matches with my post.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#453 - 2012-04-28 00:10:26 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I've just gone back to the OP and read the whole of his massively long winded post, on reflection he does actually make some good points, it's just hidden in hyperbole. I retract my previous comment about him crying.

Going back to a post I made earlier about how I would love to move my PVE operations to lo/null, are there actually any corps/alliances based in these areas that would welcome a PVE player who wants to continue with PVE, has no experience of PVP but would be willing to learn even if it's only as cannon fodder/hero tackle? Or am I still a worthless pubbie who deserves to die in a fire?

I'm a carebear yes, but I'm willing to expand my horizons, I know this isn't recruitment, it's a hypthetical question Lol


I think the problem is that if they want a primarily pve focused player in nullsec, they're better off just getting a bot. They're less whiny, less prone to spying or corp theft, they work longer hours, and they're less likely to die to stupid ****.


So, that PvE guy is not supposed to be in hi sec but would not be wanted in 0.0. Looks like he got a deal!

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#454 - 2012-04-28 00:10:59 UTC
Corbin Blair wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

I thought this was probably the case but hoped otherwise, last time I was looking in the recruitment channel the only response I got from a nullsec entity was a GSF recruiter who said that PVE wasn't a problem, as soon as I saw GSF my reply was that I didn't have a 500 million security deposit and I'd move my own stuff the convo kind of died.

They only recruit people from the something awful forum. The "security deposit" is a scam. There's usually at least a post a day in crime and punishment from some stupid victim who didn't google the alliance and didn't read their wiki, where it states that the deposit is a scam and gives the real instructions for joining.


I know this, I pre-empted the scam attempt as soon as I did a check info on the recruiter.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Corbin Blair
Doomheim
#455 - 2012-04-28 00:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Corbin Blair
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Corbin Blair wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Going back to a post I made earlier about how I would love to move my PVE operations to lo/null, are there actually any corps/alliances based in these areas that would welcome a PVE player who wants to continue with PVE, has no experience of PVP but would be willing to learn even if it's only as cannon fodder/hero tackle? Or am I still a worthless pubbie who deserves to die in a fire? Lol

Yes, yes there are. My last null corp had a guy that could barely fly a BC. I myself joined it when that character was about a month old and could also barely fly a bc. We joined at about the same time and were the corp "newbies" together, although I had experience already and just had a new character. He was completely new at the game, but both of us were out on PvP roams with them in under a week after joining. They even let me use thoraxes at first because I didn't want to have to replace more expensive ships yet and we were too small to have a reimbursement policy. On nights where we did group PvE in the complexes they even let the two of us newbies keep the salvage for ourselves. It was our job to kill the cruisers and frigates to save the battleships the annoyance of trying to hit them. The only thing keeping you from going to 0.0 is yourself. Hell even goons accept newbies in frigates as long as they hang out on the something awful forum.

His question seems more focused on PvE'ers and industrialist that new players.

I thought my answer made it clear that if a month old newbie with less SP and knowledge of the game can go to 0.0 then it should be extremely easy for an experienced PvE player. I meant it as a "if he can do it so can you" kind of thing. I was trying to show that people are quite accommodating and helpful as long as you show a willingness to learn and participate.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I know this, I pre-empted the scam attempt as soon as I did a check info on the recruiter.

I misunderstood then, my bad. Couldn't tell that you knew from your post.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#456 - 2012-04-28 00:18:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Corbin Blair wrote:

I thought my answer made it clear that if a month old newbie with less SP and knowledge of the game can go to 0.0 then it should be extremely easy for an experienced PvE player. I meant it as a "if he can do it so can you" kind of thing.


What he means is that beyond the bold and sound claims:

- If you want to join a 0.0 corp as PvEer you are seen as worthless garbage.

- If you want to join a 0.0 corp as industrialist they tell "lol we already have indy alts nor we'll give you access to the POSes".

- If you want to join a 0.0 corp as miner they tell you "LOL no we don't want botters".


You got to be the next faceless grunt ready for the obligatory or kick 2am POS bashing OP THEN you are fine.

And you HAVE TO LOVE IT, because else you are not playing EvE "as the sandbox is meant to be" (notice the oxymoron).

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Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#457 - 2012-04-28 00:21:03 UTC
Plekto wrote:
Wrong, wrong wrong.


No NOT move everything to low/0. That gives 0 more isk for free. Take anomalies. Since the grav sites spawn based upon the minerals in the region, the last grav site I ran across in 0.0 had a whopping 350,000 unit rock of Spodumain. It was literally the size of a mothership and I calculated that it would take two hulks almost 26 hours to mine it all.

There is quite literally isk flowing out of the walls and floors in high and 0. To the point where CCP estimates that the economy is adding 36 trillion more isk every month that is being removed. And that does *not* include PLEX. (100,000+ sales last month) That brings the total for February to a positive cash flow of 86 TRILLION isk more than is being taken out.


A whopping 350,000 unit rock of Spodumain is not isk. It's stuff. Outside of NPC buy orders and insurance, you can't turn stuff into isk; you can only trade it for some isk that someone else already has. Likewise, those 100,000+ sales of PLEX added no isk to EVE.
Torneach
Doomheim
#458 - 2012-04-28 00:23:45 UTC
Is anybody else noticing a parallel between the OP and a certain fascist dictator in a land called Germany in the 1930s?
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#459 - 2012-04-28 00:24:06 UTC
I can't be arsed going back to reading the epic novel OP posted again, so what was the complaint against empire carebears again?
That is to say, how are they wrecking the Eve experience of Pvpers operating outside of highsec?
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#460 - 2012-04-28 00:24:39 UTC
Just finished reading the whole OP.
Methinks that level of butt-hurt hatred has to be caused by a miner stealing his girlfriend/wife.

Nothing clever at this time.