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Bounty Hunting Fix

Author
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#1 - 2011-09-14 09:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Burseg Sardaukar
Problem:
Bounty Hunting is currently not a very viable career.
Bounties are quite honestly a joke, as anyone can place any bounty of any value on an individual with low enough sec status. The bounty is collectible by the first person to pod the player, regardless of whether they are friendly and agree to split the value or not. Also, players with behavior that might warrant a bounty, but maintain a high enough sec status can never have a bounty placed on their head, if the system was working to begin with.

Solution:
To start, a minimum bounty of 5M. This is steep enough for noobs, so if they were to place it on someone, it would have to be for a good reason. It also starts moving in the direction of being worthwhile to hunt. No one wants to collect a 5K bounty, the ammo itself is worth more than that.

To place the bounty on Player A, Player B must currently have "Kill RIghts" on Player A (If Player B had Kill Rights, they are removed once the bounty is placed), or Player A must be below -2.0 security status. Once Player A has the bounty on his head, he is entered into a "lottery." This lottery will be tied to the Bounty Hunting Agent (NPC) system. This makes the bounty system an extension of the Kill Rights system, and allows "more capable" pilots to do the dirty work for the griefed. For each increment of 5M on Player A's head, the likelihood of his "mission" being pulled increases.

To begin hunting a player with a bounty on their head [in this case it is Player A], Player C will need to speak with a new Bounty Hunting Agent. These agents will work for DED. Once Player C begins talking with agent, he will be presented with a random individual's bounty value and security status. NO NAMES or LOCATIONS will be given. This will remove the ability to kill friends/alts to receive the bounty. If Player C rejects a mission, he will be forced to accept the next offered Bounty Mission. Bounty Missions cannot be abandoned once accepted, so the mission will be active until the bounty is collected or the mission expires.

If Player C accepts the mission, he will be given the target's name and location. ONLY players currently logged in at the time of the mission acceptance are up for drawing from the lottery. This is to avoid being given a bounty from an opposing time zone. To further promote Bounty Hunting as a profession, it should be possible that the higher a hunter's standing is with the Agent, the more choice he can have when offered missions. For example, at 6.0 standing, 3 random bounty values should be provided, so there is more benefit to having good standing with the agent. (This should perhaps be implemented with existing missions, but that's a separate issue in itself.)

Player C is now given Kill Rights on Player A, and vice versa. We have come to call this the Han-shot-first mechanic, giving the bounty target a chance to hunt the hunter. Player A will be notified who is hunting him. Also, Player A can be drawn multiple times, so he could have several people hunting him. However, only one of the hunters can collect, so whoever gets there first, collects the bounty and the other mission expires (with no standing penalty).

There is also a time constraint for these Bounty Missions. If the mission is completed in one week they payout is 100% of the Bounty, two weeks: 75%, three weeks: 50%, four weeks: 25%, and after that the mission expires, and Player A would retain his bounty. If the mission is completed in an untimely manner, the remainder of the bounty that was not paid out becomes an ISK sink, into oblivion.

Oh, and a good change to all of this: The podding thing is out; bounties are tied to the destruction of a ship. This would make it so the hunter can be quick and nab a shuttle/rookie ship for some easy bounty ISK, or can stalk with scouts for a tasty ship that could potentially drop more.


Related (new) Skill:
DED Connections. Rank 3 Social Skill that allows you to have 1 Active Bounty Mission per level.

Potential Modifications:
- Add an SP-matching mechanic so a 1M SP noob isn't hunting a 100M+ SP -10 character.
- Remove the ability to receive a mission on Alliance/Corp members. (Maybe even blues?)
- More skills to reduce the range of targets from current position.
- A rank 12 social skill that increases the chance of getting 100M+ ISK bounty missions.
- Add a device to game, Hi-slot tracking device, that brings no aggro, but periodically shows where a ship is on the map. (so alts can help track targets.)

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Sigras
Conglomo
#2 - 2011-09-15 21:03:39 UTC
Sounds a lot like my idea

Shameless Self Link
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#3 - 2011-09-15 22:55:21 UTC
I posted in your thread. I like the personal-interaction but am afraid of the exploitation/difficulty involved.

Also, +1 for the kill efficiency tracking component.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Sigras
Conglomo
#4 - 2011-09-15 23:18:52 UTC
I really like this idea as it is very anti-exploitable; the only problem I can see is what keeps the bounty hunter from contacting the mark and making a deal to split the bounty?

Also im not a huge fan of needing -2.0 sec status to get a bounty; why cant I put a bounty on the CEO of Jita Inc if I want to?

That being said, this is well thought out and a HUGE improvement over what we currently have.
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#5 - 2011-09-16 01:11:13 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I really like this idea as it is very anti-exploitable; the only problem I can see is what keeps the bounty hunter from contacting the mark and making a deal to split the bounty?


That could happen, and he could potentially beg for his life and pay a bigger ransom as well, and both ideas I kind of like. The deal, I think, wouldn't be a super-big problem, but I def foresee getting a bounty hunting mission on friends and working something out to be mutually beneficial, but it'd be WAYYY less exploited than the current system, that's for sure.

Sigras wrote:

Also im not a huge fan of needing -2.0 sec status to get a bounty; why cant I put a bounty on the CEO of Jita Inc if I want to?


There really isn't too much of a need for an in-game mechanic to hunt any random person. The -2.0 thing is like it is in game now, and will stop people from "griefing" law abiding citizens by placing unwarranted bounties on everyone they have a grudge against in a hope their ticket will get pulled.

Forum-run contracting merc services work, and have the shady quality that you might get screwed out of the money in the end, as well.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Sigras
Conglomo
#6 - 2011-09-16 02:29:39 UTC
I suppose in your system where every bounty spawns a mission, you need to have all of the missions be completable because getting a mission for a high sec carebear would not be fun, but I think that may take away from some of the bounty hunting RP aspect
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#7 - 2011-09-16 03:05:05 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I suppose in your system where every bounty spawns a mission, you need to have all of the missions be completable because getting a mission for a high sec carebear would not be fun, but I think that may take away from some of the bounty hunting RP aspect


Yea, your idea is much better for the actual vendetta-feeling, like someone who is super pissed off at Han Solo and just wants him dead will get Boba Fett on his ass. I was looking at it from a few perspectives:

1) As non-exploitable as possible. <-- PARAMOUNT
2) As fair/fun to the hunter as possible (like the additonal idea of matching SP and time zones)
3) Having a big bounty will draw more attention through the mechanic, not JUST because it is a high number. It is also even more so bragging rights, since no one has completed the "mission" against them. "Many have tried, all have failed."
4) The bounty target isn't at a massive disadvantage, they can shoot first, or reverse-hunt, or even turtle up when they know their card has been pulled (which can be a punishment in itself).
5) The podding piece is a gigantic pain in the ass, in that a ship that is best for catching pods is less likely to be able to actually kill the ship the dude was in originally to get him INTO the pod to begin with.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#8 - 2011-09-16 06:14:37 UTC
still have a time zone problem...... Oceanic hits euro and US. Especially on weekends. They have a bit of fun their morning (US' nightt) name comes up in lotto and they "disappear" by sunday/monday. Want to find him....better set your alarm clock. No alarm clock ops....untouchable bounty till next weekend.

Also have a location problem...people on jc empire injection layovers. Have some fun while injecting skills....back in low sec or 0.0 day or 2 later. Guy has an untouchable bounty for a week unless you feel like coming to delve to claim it when contract came up with him in jita.


Also the tiering of the bounty....no. Any given day, any given player should be able to collect. Yes the system is abused...but its a system that does get you fair shot at bounty. See a 500 mil bounty in empire flying a kestrel...1 month old new players thinks he has it and the ballz to get concorded for it, should get his prize. More so even than someone too scared to collect because of the scary policeman. For 500 mil, even a bs gank worht it Imo.


and this a mild nerf to pvp'ers in low and 0.0. Have personally collected a few million in bounties out there. Is nice seeing that wallet get fatter, many others feel the same. Why I say...want to be a bounty hunter, go 0.0. Bounties just roll in no effort.
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#9 - 2011-09-16 06:44:02 UTC
Nezumiiro Noneko wrote:
still have a time zone problem......


I completely agree that some people will pull a mission just in time to see the target log off for the night, (as the system would make it so you can only pull a mission on a player currently logged in, but can't predict their log-off behavior). Same way as just as I run a locator on a war target or kill rights, they ALWAYS seem to log off. Just crappy timing, hope to catch them the next day.

Nezumiiro Noneko wrote:
Also have a location problem...


This problem is dependent on how dedicated the Bounty Hunter is. Currently, the system is a bit of a pain in the ass (the podding aspect, with the whole hisec issue and being penalized for collecting the Bounty on a player with >-5.0 sec status). With my revision, the target could just be en route to pick up a skill book and get snagged on the gate, or the hunter could get himself in some kind of cloaky and pursue his target, wherever he may go. I figure the BIGGEST problem would be those inside w-space (which I think the only real solution would be to exempt them from the lotto draw while they are there, since there's little chance of finding them. If they are a nonstop w-space dweller, though, they probably won't have many kill rights on their heads, so that limits that way of receiving the bounty in the first place.)

Nezumiiro Noneko wrote:
Also the tiering of the bounty....no.


The tier concept was to promote speed and efficiency in the same way that general missions have a "bonus" for completing in a timely manner. Also, the expiration makes it so someone can't just sit on a Bounty Mission for a year (or be "stuck with it). Since the ISK for a "bonus" can't manifest from no where (creating a faucet), the better choice was to make a penalty where the bounty payout to the hunter would decrease for dragging ass, where the remainder becomes a sink.

Nezumiiro Noneko wrote:

and this a mild nerf to pvp'ers in low and 0.0....go 0.0. Bounties just roll in no effort.


That is all well and good, but those that are squishing the pods in a bubble in null aren't really going for a "Bounty Hunter" experience. it's just a side effect of podding, something they were going to do anyway. The no-effort part shouldn't be an option for collecting the bounties. Sure, small targets will get caught and bounties will be paid, but the player hunting that small ship was actively pursuing his target, or camping them. This effort should be rewarded more than bubbling someone that just so happens to have a bounty in the current mechanic.

In a different direction, it could be seen as an anti-pirate mechanic for sure. And this is coming from a guy (me) that spends his whole day in lowsec killing noobs. I try to manage my sec status as best as possible, but end up with bounties every so often, and have quite a sizable list of people with kill rights on me. When discussing this bounty idea with similar-play-style members of my Alliance, we said this is the best possible way to implement the system, despite the large risk we'd potentially be putting ourselves in if it ever got implemented exactly as we describe. I think it'd be a fun challenge and look forward to the day that I get to play back-and-forth cat-and-mouse with a bounty hunter... if CCP even reads this forum.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

ScarredEye
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-09-16 13:45:28 UTC
I like the idea a lot, currently bounties are indeed a joke.

What I disagree on are two of the potential modifications:

the first one stands against one of the features which make EVE Online awesome, that is there is no discrimination like the one that modification would introduce, and in my opinion a noob killing a pro is something which should always be possible.
And though I understand that modification would be meant to further avoid the classic "alt-kills-main" stuff, it would be already difficult enough.

the last one is maybe too good, I would suggest an alternative for the tracking, such as something like a device which shows you on the map the systems he's most active in, just ilke the feature you can enable on the map for yourself.

also, I find the fact that if you decline a mission you'll have to accept the next prety strange. If you dont know who you are going to need to hunt down anyway it doesnt make much sense, since skimming through missions wont give you any advantage at all.

That's my opinion, as for the rest the idea sounds very good.

Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#11 - 2011-09-19 11:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Erik Finnegan
Required reading as a basis for all of these thoughts so that the community is not always starting at zero.
Dokaa
Mandolorian Special Ops
Arkhos Core
#12 - 2011-09-20 18:35:23 UTC
Maybe one way to keep the HUNTED from moving around quickly would be to DISABLE his/her use of jump clones while the bounty mission is active.

Wherever he/she is when the bounty becomes active he/she most likely will be close to that system, although he can always travel by gate.

Kind of like a man-hunt in real life. The longer it takes you to arrive on the scene the larger the search area becomes and the longer time goes one the larger the search area increases and greater likelihood the HUNTED gets away.

Just an idea
Yan Turok
Black Eagle Ward
#13 - 2011-09-22 09:51:23 UTC
Bumping cause I love this idea

but im not a fan of the Hi-slot tracking device, makes it a bit easy, but I do like ScarredEye's idea of it just showing you what system he is most active in
Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#14 - 2011-09-22 19:03:10 UTC
Idea : The bounty hunter should get her information on whereabouts of "targets" in station bars. Isn't it CCP's intention already to make bars the place for shady business ? Further away you are, less exact the information is. First, you learn the sector ( maybe the sovereignty ?! ) of where the target is, some value that is above regions : the faction space or sovereign alliance's name. Then you may learn the region, if you are like a dozon jumps within range. The constellation then, and eventually the system ( not sure about that last one ). Should you be lucky and visit the bar of the station, where the target was docked within the past few hours, the barman will reveal this to you.

Once you are close enough, warp signatures will be readable by a special scanner. Warp signatures decay over time -- one hour perhaps ? You will need to complete some mini-game in order to acquire the warp-out spot of the ship you are looking for. More time has passed since the warp took place, harder the mini-game will be.


Can this be tied into the OP ? Because the lottery system sounds very good to prevent friends collecting the bounty.
shadowace00007
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Federation Uprising
#15 - 2011-09-22 19:49:45 UTC
Best idea I have seen so far.

Maybe not give the target any knowledge of being hunted tho. And I think that the bounty hunter should have to go to said starting location to get the name of target. that would put some effort on the hunter make them more willing to kill the target. If you jumped 30 jumps to find out you need to kill a year older player You will be abit more willing to attempt it then if you just see it before you go anywhere.

Born Amarrian Raised Minmatar.

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#16 - 2011-09-22 21:20:22 UTC
Dokaa wrote:
Maybe one way to keep the HUNTED from moving around quickly would be to DISABLE his/her use of jump clones while the bounty mission is active.

Wherever he/she is when the bounty becomes active he/she most likely will be close to that system, although he can always travel by gate.

Kind of like a man-hunt in real life. The longer it takes you to arrive on the scene the larger the search area becomes and the longer time goes one the larger the search area increases and greater likelihood the HUNTED gets away.

Just an idea


I definitely like the idea. It'd def make an added pain-in-the-ass for scumbags (like me). The downside is the bounty-holder might get SOOO raged that he'll just throw a frig at his hunter just so he can clone jump again, haha.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#17 - 2011-09-22 21:21:29 UTC
Yan Turok wrote:
Bumping cause I love this idea

but im not a fan of the Hi-slot tracking device, makes it a bit easy, but I do like ScarredEye's idea of it just showing you what system he is most active in


Yea, the hislot thing was a bit too Boba Fett-ish (lol fetish). I really like that "most active" idea as well! It's a much better compromise!

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#18 - 2011-09-22 21:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Burseg Sardaukar
ScarredEye wrote:
I like the idea a lot, currently bounties are indeed a joke.

What I disagree on are two of the potential modifications:

the first one stands against one of the features which make EVE Online awesome, that is there is no discrimination like the one that modification would introduce, and in my opinion a noob killing a pro is something which should always be possible.
And though I understand that modification would be meant to further avoid the classic "alt-kills-main" stuff, it would be already difficult enough.


I was thinking of it from a perspective that bounty hunting wouldn't become a profession that would be "noob friendly" if they keep getting slotted against 100M SP+ chars, but I agree that "that's EvE!"

ScarredEye wrote:

the last one is maybe too good, I would suggest an alternative for the tracking, such as something like a device which shows you on the map the systems he's most active in, just ilke the feature you can enable on the map for yourself.


Much better middle ground! I was definitely in a Boba Fett emulation line of thought, but this would be more fair.

ScarredEye wrote:

also, I find the fact that if you decline a mission you'll have to accept the next prety strange. If you dont know who you are going to need to hunt down anyway it doesnt make much sense, since skimming through missions wont give you any advantage at all.


Well, currently with Level 4's you can just turn down one mission every 24 hours, and I didn't like the idea that someone could just keep going to an agent each day and not accept any mission below a certain level. It already stands that people with high bounties have a higher likelihood of being drawn from the pool, but people with low bounties will be overlooked entirely if people can just wait 24 hours to turn down missions until they hit a 100M+ one.

ScarredEye wrote:

That's my opinion, as for the rest the idea sounds very good.


I always appreciate more ideas, thanks for the input, guys. After the most recent dev blog from CCP Zulu "Watch This Space" I hope they start a huge iteration cycle, with focus on fixing broken things and expanding stale things. Hopefully we can get this thread high on their radar.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Mathias Karsten
Cygni Mira Conglomerate
#19 - 2011-09-25 06:59:20 UTC
I was thinking about this recently. Isn't the main problem with bounties is they are easily exploitable by the one that recieved the bounty? So, why not just make it ... unprofitable to do that? I had a simple idea for this:

Example, John Doe The Pirate has a 5,000,000 ISK bounty on his head.

When John Doe The Pirate is podded, his next medical clone cost is an extra +10,000,000 ISK including the original cost of the clone. That way, no matter which way you flip it, it's not profitable to kill yourself.

Of course, this means someone with an insane bounty (40 billion ISK for example) would just turtle up in a POS way out of the way, but that makes sense. It would, in turn, become a large fleet objective. Like an escalation.

If it is just the clone cost that is increased, then it also gives no motivation for John Doe The Pirate to kill himself, either.

I believe the main thing with getting the bounty system to work is to make the very basis of it work. Then, it can be expanded.

ok bye

Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#20 - 2011-09-25 20:29:29 UTC
Mathias Karsten wrote:
Example, John Doe The Pirate has a 5,000,000 ISK bounty on his head.

When John Doe The Pirate is podded, his next medical clone cost is an extra +10,000,000 ISK including the original cost. That way, no matter which way you flip it, it's not profitable to kill yourself.
That sounds like a good move. Probably needs tweaking with the numbers, but the lever is a good one. Better than the "damage inflicted counter" which Dierdra suggests in her paper ?

What about tying the location finding of bounty targets into the station bar business, as I had suggested earlier ? Not just a device you mount, nor simply showing the most traveled systems of the target on the galaxy map, as ScarredEye had suggested. That is a bit too straight forward, don't you think ? And doesn't make use of the "shady business" RP opportunity we now have with Incarna 2.0.

How about a logic, which allows station bar tenders to indicate the whereabouts more precisely the longer a target remains in a system or constellation ? JC disablement of the target to be discussed. But the quicker she moves, less exact the intel will become.

Oh, dear, here I go, getting carried away : what if any pilot seeing a bounty target in space could go to the nearest station bar and whistle blow her location ?! Twisted Getting some money off the bounty for that "service". More the hunter waits, more hints she needs from bar tenders, less the bounty becomes. That ties into the OP's suggestion of time-factor for the payouts; but improved IMHO as it will be player-driven instead of automagic.
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