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Will CSM7 help the EVE Mac users CCP ignores?
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Matar Ronin
#1 - 2012-04-26 14:14:57 UTC
Today is the second day i have absolutely no access to play on my paid EVE subscription due to the corrupted patch CCP distributed on day 2 of the INFERNO escalation. The installer will not initiate the game so i and many other Mac users are dead in the water.

CCP is of course quietly ignoring the fact that once again they have screwed up implementing a patch and are silent as to when they'll fix this problem.

I totally reinstalled the client from the CCP site as many other mac users did and still get an error message, the same that other Mac users have posted in the dev blogs and Mac users forum posts.

Can the CSM at least get a response from CCP? Asking players to troublshoot the problem and post their computer fits is not the same as CCP responding to the problem and devoting manpower to fix it.

I can not play at all and can only access you thru EVE GATE, i am losing paid time on my accounts while CCP doesn't even respond. It takes quite a while to reload the entire eve client from the CCP website so it would be nice to know they have fixed the problems before i attempt that again.

Mac players really need the CSM to stand up for us on this one.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-04-26 14:23:08 UTC
If there is a problem with the Mac client, I am sure CCP is working on correcting the issue. Quit blowing it up to being more than what it is. **** happens. Mistakes are made. CCP isn't the only developer that has ever screwed up a patch.

You know what? The whole post comes accross as a whine. I am sure I would have responded differently if you weren't whining about it in every sentence like you are bieng singled out and treated unfairly.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Matar Ronin
#3 - 2012-04-26 14:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Matar Ronin
[quote=Vertisce Soritenshi]If there is a problem with the Mac client, I am sure CCP is working on correcting the issue. Quit blowing it up to being more than what it is. **** happens. Mistakes are made. CCP isn't the only developer that has ever screwed up a patch

You know what? The whole post comes accross as a whine. I am sure I would have responded differently if you weren't whining about it in every sentence like you are bieng singled out and treated unfairly.[/quote

Mr Vertisce it was not my intention to have the post come across as a whine, it is a plea for help

Perhaps you are not aware that every time CCP upgrades the game the same type of problems recur for Mac users, I was not aware until i researched the MAC threads and found numerous complaints about the same problems happening each upgrade or patch.

With the new installer this time the problem goes beyond constant freezes and being kicked out and having to relogin. Many Mac users have NO access to EVE play at all and CCP has not responded

Perhaps sir if you did a little research into the MAC threads on the forum your belief that CCP is working on it would be a little more fact based and a little less blind fan faith

How many days should i accept not being able to play any of my paid subscription accounts before I ask CCP to at least acknowledge they are working on the specific problem

If you think a different approach to CCP would elicit a different response from them please draft it sir and i will submit it to CCP. I would be very appreciative of your help. Thank you

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-04-26 16:13:09 UTC
1: Don't bold type your entire post.

2: Stop whining.

3: CSM won't do #### for you in this case.

4: File a bug report.

And lastly....get a hold of yourself and stop embarassing the mac community by looking like a total cry baby.

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Matar Ronin
#5 - 2012-04-26 16:38:24 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
1: Don't bold type your entire post.

2: Stop whining.

3: CSM won't do #### for you in this case.

4: File a bug report.

And lastly....get a hold of yourself and stop embarassing the mac community by looking like a total cry baby.


Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I have read some of your other posts in the forums .... apparently CCP can do no wrong from your POV .... highly suspect if you are actually a Mac user at all tbh .... nonetheless i respect your apologist opinions .... at least you are consistent.... you attack anyone who has a complaint against CCP, besides it's just my money going to waste right? Why should i trouble your day talking about it?

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-04-26 16:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Matar Ronin wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
1: Don't bold type your entire post.

2: Stop whining.

3: CSM won't do #### for you in this case.

4: File a bug report.

And lastly....get a hold of yourself and stop embarassing the mac community by looking like a total cry baby.


Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I have read some of your other posts in the forums .... apparently CCP can do no wrong from your POV .... highly suspect if you are actually a Mac user at all tbh .... nonetheless i respect your apologist opinions .... at least you are consistent.... you attack anyone who has a complaint against CCP, besides it's just my money going to waste right? Why should i trouble your day talking about it?




My POV on CCP is they are in control...they own this product...they choose what to do and where to go.

We can either work with them....or quit.

Bitching at them and telling them off accomplishes nothing.

I may not agree compltely on how they handle it...but I've learned a little to late that making demands of any kind or sort is nothing but a total waste of time.

As to my background...I'm a fully crednetianedl Apple Technician...also Apple Care qualified. I'm very familar with the hardware....and have a great deal of insight on the archetchure that is OS-X...with a good chunk of UNIX/Linux knowledge.

I'm not an expert....but I know a little too much to allow people to just BS their tongues out and make claims that are obviously quite false.


As I've repatedly tried to tell people...stop treating EVE Online for Mac as an Mac App and treat it as a windows application.

Things start to make sense at that point....you start to understand that CCP is not intentionally breaking it...they are fighting an environment that is inheritly screwed over....that lives an environment that is orederly and standardized. 2 countries...2 Languages....massive communications barrier...with a translator.

EVE Online for Mac is actually windows version wrapped up in a WINE/Translator/Emulation package that tends to do poorly in many areas.

Do a little probing and you'll find a windows file structure hiding in plain site....with its own little C: and such.

Little details like that make life difficult to live an UNIX File System with very specific rules often ignored in Windows. That is the tip of hte ice berg at that point.

Admitedly Apple is not helping either with the latest version of their OS....but it is what we have to work with for the time being.

If you HAVE been reading my post...I droped a very subtle hint...don't patch immedately...WAIT....hold off for a week or two...and things start to work again.

Some people can't do that....and they do it..and it breaks...they *****...yell..scream...flame...and what does it get you in the end?


Nothing.


CCP may not be doing their aboslute best for Mac Users...but screaming won't get them to do it either. But they ARE working on it....and its evidenced they are....but don't expect them to drop everything just for YOU either.

If you don't like it...no one said you had to keep paying for it...but don't come here like some crazed nooblet yelling for something you won't get.

The CSM won't...well not...cannot help you here.

They are not going to push for a platform that is still a minority.

Do I worship CCP? No.

But I'm not stupid either.

PS: I'm not telling you off....I'm telling you...calm the #### Down and be paitent....they will get it fixed up...if you have too..dust off your windows tower and sit tight. Oh and no I've not patched...and I won't until its been more than a week...for obvious reasons...I'll be using my windows tower for the time being. This isn't an hate mac or hate windows....its called...I'm adapting and playing EVE when I can....prue and simple.

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Matar Ronin
#7 - 2012-04-26 17:17:25 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
1: Don't bold type your entire post.

2: Stop whining.

3: CSM won't do #### for you in this case.

4: File a bug report.

And lastly....get a hold of yourself and stop embarassing the mac community by looking like a total cry baby.


Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I have read some of your other posts in the forums .... apparently CCP can do no wrong from your POV .... highly suspect if you are actually a Mac user at all tbh .... nonetheless i respect your apologist opinions .... at least you are consistent.... you attack anyone who has a complaint against CCP, besides it's just my money going to waste right? Why should i trouble your day talking about it?




My POV on CCP is they are in control...they own this product...they choose what to do and where to go.

We can either work with them....or quit.

Bitching at them and telling them off accomplishes nothing.

I may not agree compltely on how they handle it...but I've learned a little to late that making demands of any kind or sort is nothing but a total waste of time.

As to my background...I'm a fully crednetianedl Apple Technician...also Apple Care qualified. I'm very familar with the hardware....and have a great deal of insight on the archetchure that is OS-X...with a good chunk of UNIX/Linux knowledge.

I'm not an expert....but I know a little too much to allow people to just BS their tongues out and make claims that are obviously quite false.


As I've repatedly tried to tell people...stop treating EVE Online for Mac as an Mac App and treat it as a windows application.

Things start to make sense at that point....you start to understand that CCP is not intentionally breaking it...they are fighting an environment that is inheritly screwed over....that lives an environment that is orederly and standardized. 2 countries...2 Languages....massive communications barrier...with a translator.

EVE Online for Mac is actually windows version wrapped up in a WINE/Translator/Emulation package that tends to do poorly in many areas.

Do a little probing and you'll find a windows file structure hiding in plain site....with its own little C: and such.

Little details like that make life difficult to live an UNIX File System with very specific rules often ignored in Windows. That is the tip of hte ice berg at that point.

Admitedly Apple is not helping either with the latest version of their OS....but it is what we have to work with for the time being.

If you HAVE been reading my post...I droped a very subtle hint...don't patch immedately...WAIT....hold off for a week or two...and things start to work again.

Some people can't do that....and they do it..and it breaks...they *****...yell..scream...flame...and what does it get you in the end?


Nothing.


CCP may not be doing their aboslute best for Mac Users...but screaming won't get them to do it either. But they ARE working on it....and its evidenced they are....but don't expect them to drop everything just for YOU either.

If you don't like it...no one said you had to keep paying for it...but don't come here like some crazed nooblet yelling for something you won't get.

The CSM won't...well not...cannot help you here.

They are not going to push for a platform that is still a minority.

Do I worship CCP? No.

But I'm not stupid either.


Impressive credentials sir ..... but in case i missed it you never claimed to play EVE on a Mac did you?

The new installer did not give the opportunity to wait a week or two .... the patch on day 2 was preceded by notice of incompatibility that did not allow you to log in without the patch.

The Patch then loaded corrupted files.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-04-26 17:30:33 UTC
I think the lesson that should be learned here is...

Buy a PC.

If CCP is really having this much trouble with the Mac client then perhaps they do need to work on it a bit more. Or drop it. Either way I am sure they are aware of it and are working on correcting it. They wouldn't just ignore a problem with the client that prevents players from playing the game. Either they have a fix for it or they are working on it.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#9 - 2012-04-26 17:43:22 UTC
I understand that it works better to install Wine for Mac and use the windows version of the game than to use the Mac client, since the mac client is just the windows version with an outdated wine wrapper(QA would never allow them to release current wine version, by the time its tested its outdated anyway).

Also mean that you will only have the issues that linux users have, which are mostly to do with the launcher, and directX(fun fun having to emulate one version of directX to install, then a different one to play it, but it plays).

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-04-26 18:26:20 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
1: Don't bold type your entire post.

2: Stop whining.

3: CSM won't do #### for you in this case.

4: File a bug report.

And lastly....get a hold of yourself and stop embarassing the mac community by looking like a total cry baby.


Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I have read some of your other posts in the forums .... apparently CCP can do no wrong from your POV .... highly suspect if you are actually a Mac user at all tbh .... nonetheless i respect your apologist opinions .... at least you are consistent.... you attack anyone who has a complaint against CCP, besides it's just my money going to waste right? Why should i trouble your day talking about it?




My POV on CCP is they are in control...they own this product...they choose what to do and where to go.

We can either work with them....or quit.

Bitching at them and telling them off accomplishes nothing.

I may not agree compltely on how they handle it...but I've learned a little to late that making demands of any kind or sort is nothing but a total waste of time.

As to my background...I'm a fully crednetianedl Apple Technician...also Apple Care qualified. I'm very familar with the hardware....and have a great deal of insight on the archetchure that is OS-X...with a good chunk of UNIX/Linux knowledge.

I'm not an expert....but I know a little too much to allow people to just BS their tongues out and make claims that are obviously quite false.


As I've repatedly tried to tell people...stop treating EVE Online for Mac as an Mac App and treat it as a windows application.

Things start to make sense at that point....you start to understand that CCP is not intentionally breaking it...they are fighting an environment that is inheritly screwed over....that lives an environment that is orederly and standardized. 2 countries...2 Languages....massive communications barrier...with a translator.

EVE Online for Mac is actually windows version wrapped up in a WINE/Translator/Emulation package that tends to do poorly in many areas.

Do a little probing and you'll find a windows file structure hiding in plain site....with its own little C: and such.

Little details like that make life difficult to live an UNIX File System with very specific rules often ignored in Windows. That is the tip of hte ice berg at that point.

Admitedly Apple is not helping either with the latest version of their OS....but it is what we have to work with for the time being.

If you HAVE been reading my post...I droped a very subtle hint...don't patch immedately...WAIT....hold off for a week or two...and things start to work again.

Some people can't do that....and they do it..and it breaks...they *****...yell..scream...flame...and what does it get you in the end?


Nothing.


CCP may not be doing their aboslute best for Mac Users...but screaming won't get them to do it either. But they ARE working on it....and its evidenced they are....but don't expect them to drop everything just for YOU either.

If you don't like it...no one said you had to keep paying for it...but don't come here like some crazed nooblet yelling for something you won't get.

The CSM won't...well not...cannot help you here.

They are not going to push for a platform that is still a minority.

Do I worship CCP? No.

But I'm not stupid either.


Impressive credentials sir ..... but in case i missed it you never claimed to play EVE on a Mac did you?

The new installer did not give the opportunity to wait a week or two .... the patch on day 2 was preceded by notice of incompatibility that did not allow you to log in without the patch.

The Patch then loaded corrupted files.



Ok Smart Ass....ignore my post and NOT read it.

I'll spell it out for you.... yes I play EVE Online on both MAC and PC. Have been for 2 years plus.

I have made it clear on the mac forums (IF YOU CAN READ THAT IS) that I will NOT patch for 2 weeks until they clean up the mess.

But since you refuse to engage brain and contiue to cry and scream for your emo-rage....then please continue until your vocal cords bleed.

Honestly its a wonder Mac users survive anymore.

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Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-04-26 18:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Tallian Saotome wrote:
I understand that it works better to install Wine for Mac and use the windows version of the game than to use the Mac client, since the mac client is just the windows version with an outdated wine wrapper(QA would never allow them to release current wine version, by the time its tested its outdated anyway).

Also mean that you will only have the issues that linux users have, which are mostly to do with the launcher, and directX(fun fun having to emulate one version of directX to install, then a different one to play it, but it plays).


Agreed....I've got a Mac Pro from me dad being handed down to me....sweet piece of equipment it is.....got plans to try a few things...Macbook Pros are not exactly a great platform for messing with WINE and such.

But then again my time these days is so limited.... DirectX is an utter pain in the ass to deal with.

Tried at one point...kept running into massive headaches and I did actually get it to work at one point...but the graphics where totally fail by the time I got there.

That was before Apocrapha (sp?) released....I miss that...was the best Mac release then..strangely everyone else hated it....funny that.

These days I hesitate to launch EVE on my MBP as the bloody core temps keep jumping up...I'm worried I'll come back to a melted pile of aluminium instead of a so-so working EVE client. (That would be Apples fault btw.....for stupid engineering on placement of CPU/GPU's.)

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Matar Ronin
#12 - 2012-04-26 21:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Matar Ronin
Drake Draconis wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
I understand that it works better to install Wine for Mac and use the windows version of the game than to use the Mac client, since the mac client is just the windows version with an outdated wine wrapper(QA would never allow them to release current wine version, by the time its tested its outdated anyway).

Also mean that you will only have the issues that linux users have, which are mostly to do with the launcher, and directX(fun fun having to emulate one version of directX to install, then a different one to play it, but it plays).


Agreed....I've got a Mac Pro from me dad being handed down to me....sweet piece of equipment it is.....got plans to try a few things...Macbook Pros are not exactly a great platform for messing with WINE and such.

But then again my time these days is so limited.... DirectX is an utter pain in the ass to deal with.

Tried at one point...kept running into massive headaches and I did actually get it to work at one point...but the graphics where totally fail by the time I got there.

That was before Apocrapha (sp?) released....I miss that...was the best Mac release then..strangely everyone else hated it....funny that.

These days I hesitate to launch EVE on my MBP as the bloody core temps keep jumping up...I'm worried I'll come back to a melted pile of aluminium instead of a so-so working EVE client. (That would be Apples fault btw.....for stupid engineering on placement of CPU/GPU's.)

So in all honesty you are not familiar with how the process has changed with the INFERNO patch because you are still in your 2 week period of playing on the PC and thus have no idea about the mechanics that led me into the corrupted files as dictated by the new installer.

Perhaps you should have asked those questions before calling me a smart-ass, implying that i an stupid, while all the time you sit back and wait for CCP to fix the problems i have brought up so you can safely log on with your Mac in a week or so.

This situation is far worse then the past sir, yet the only fault besides an alleged emo rage from me you can identify is a poor design by the Apple engineers, CCP is squeaky clean.

You're an apologist and that is certainly your right.

Please have a good life sir, i am done with you.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-04-26 21:17:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Matar Ronin wrote:
So in all honesty you are not familiar with how the process has changed with the INFERNO patch because you are still in your 2 week period of playing on the PC and thus have no idea about the mechanics that led me into the corrupted files as dictated by the new installer.

Perhaps you should have asked those questions before calling me a smart-ass, implying that i an stupid, while all the time you sit back and wait for CCP to fix the problems i have brought up so you can safely log on with your Mac in a week or so.

This situation is far worse then the past sir, yet the only fault besides an alleged emo rage from me you can identify is a poor design by the Apple engineers, CCP is squeaky clean.

You're an apologist and that is certainly your right.

Please have a good life sir, i am done with you.


That is what you have to say in the face of common sense telling you to calm the #### down?

Your utterly pathetic and an embarassment to the mac community.

All you are is a emo-raging fool who has nothing better to do then to make demands because you dont like how things have ended up.

I watch and I study and I read the mac forums prior and after patch time to get of a sense of what to expect. I do not blindly walk into a problem like everyone else who has a tendency to just blidnly click their little trackpad button or mouse. (This is excluding the brave Mac warriors who patiently report bugs and attempt to help CCP troubleshoot however..sorry I'm not going to do that...not for everyone)

This is much like living in 0.0....do you jump into a system without checking local?

No...unless your an idiot and a fool.

You can make all the conclusions you want....but you obviously have no idea what your talking about...no concept of how things work..and too bitter to see straight.

As I've already said...you can either read.....and learn...or scream until your vocal cords burst....fact of the matter remains...by the time I do patch...CCP will likely have resolved all known issues related to the patch now...and I will not have to worry about redownloading or reinstalling my client...just like every other time I've done it.


Its called experience..and knowing the experinces of living on a Mac while playing (attempting to) an windows game forcibily engereed to live on that mac.

I can't help the fact your ignorance reigns supreme...but saddly it seems it is not a blissful one to be sure.

I'd say enjoy it...but that seems impossible.


Oh and one last thing.... since your likely going to rage quit.

Can I has your stuff?


Welcome to EVE Online....get a PC instead....since you can't handle it...just don't bring it up to your windows buddies..they may take advantage of the victory. Your just an young welp of a pilot who thinks he knows better...when your journey in EVE has only just begun.

I have played this game far longer than you....your just yet an another in a long line of whining noobs claiming "I have the right to tell CCP to go #### themsleves or else" when you know aboslutely nothing.

Your a paying customer...so stop paying....quit...and leave. CCP will get to each and every issue in due time and process...as they always have over the various patches.

I have only had 1 major failure of a patch on the Mac...and that was the last time I installed the patch ON patch day.
I always wait 1 to 2 weeks depending on what breaks.

A concept you refuse to....and likely incapable of understanding.

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Matar Ronin
#14 - 2012-04-27 00:19:50 UTC
My sincere thanks go out to the new CSM7 Chairman and the 2 other members of CSM7 who took the time to respond to this thread and said they would inquire within CCP to find out the status of repairing the patch that has disabled game play for paying MAC subscribers like myself.

It is good to see people elected to Leadership positions responding swiftly to the legitimate concerns of individual subscribers, especially when the forums seem to be populated by far too many hostile self righteous bitter attack dogs.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-04-27 00:25:12 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
My sincere thanks go out to the new CSM7 Chairman and the 2 other members of CSM7 who took the time to respond to this thread and said they would inquire within CCP to find out the status of repairing the patch that has disabled game play for paying MAC subscribers like myself.

It is good to see people elected to Leadership positions responding swiftly to the legitimate concerns of individual subscribers, especially when the forums seem to be populated by far too many hostile self righteous bitter attack dogs.


How fortiante for you.... I can tell you want the response is as well.

"We're working on it / Know about the issue"


If youd actually pay attention and read whats available as far as resources and advise..you'd get somewhere.

But alas...continue beating your head on that brickwall alright...you know where to find "us"

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OldMan Gana
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-27 17:15:13 UTC
OP, your being trolled by a few knobs, don't bite. Trebor is Vice chair of the CSM and he is also a Mac guy. I'm sure he will get the ball rolling on something.

In the mean time, stay away from the Orcs and bell ends that populate these forums.

Love United- Hate Glazer
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-04-27 17:48:38 UTC
OldMan Gana wrote:
OP, your being trolled by a few knobs, don't bite. Trebor is Vice chair of the CSM and he is also a Mac guy. I'm sure he will get the ball rolling on something.

In the mean time, stay away from the Orcs and bell ends that populate these forums.


Being trolled is one thing.

Stating the facts is an entirely different thing.

Stick to reality and don't make assumptions.

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Corbin Blair
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-04-28 09:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Corbin Blair
Matar Ronin wrote:
Will CSM7 help the EVE Mac users CCP ignores?

Will mac users ever realize macs aren't for gaming and start using the right tool for the right job?
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-04-28 09:40:17 UTC
Corbin Blair wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Will CSM7 help the EVE Mac users CCP ignores?

Will mac users ever realize macs aren't for gaming and start using the right tool for the right job?


Will Trolls ever learn to think before they post?

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Corbin Blair
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-04-28 10:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Corbin Blair
Drake Draconis wrote:
Corbin Blair wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Will CSM7 help the EVE Mac users CCP ignores?

Will mac users ever realize macs aren't for gaming and start using the right tool for the right job?


Will Trolls ever learn to think before they post?

You can accuse me of not thinking all you want, but I'm the one with a working Eve client, aren't I?
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