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Looking for old school answers in the new world
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Othran
Route One
#21 - 2012-04-26 15:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Simi Kusoni wrote:
The programming behind a modern computer game is considerably more complex and, perhaps more importantly, more difficult to test than any car engine. Really, that's all there is to it.

/thread.


Not true given that most car engines are controlled by software these days.

Aero engines even more so - in fact if you've ever flown on an Airbus or (finally arriving - probably P) 787 Dreamliner then best pray my wife got the code right as she's been doing that for near enough 20 years Lol

I do agree though - and with non-safety critical stuff then there is always a tradeoff between testing/timescales and cost. Testing often takes a back seat to commercial concerns.

The analogy to which is of course the now infamous Ford Pinto where Ford decided that commercial pressures outweighed known faults at the time of manufacture.

Edit - lol just looked and all the complimentary Dreamliner marketing crap is still in this room. Original date July 8 2007 - now THAT'S what you call slippage P
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#22 - 2012-04-26 15:09:02 UTC
Mcpate wrote:

I hope someone can explain why I cant relate my concrete, absolute, measurable task oriented world to this computer based programming/server/coding/gaming 'try it now and see if it works' world.


Internal combustion engines don't use an "if, then, else" algorithm.


Now, watch the geeks point out how oversimplified my example is.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#23 - 2012-04-26 15:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
You're picturing this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/4StrokeEngine_Ortho_3D_Small.gif

If things are working quite right, you can adjust a single valve and correct the whole system. While the system depends on them all to work properly, each piece is independent.

Programming a complex game like Eve is more like this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8Zyce56jO6g/TwNZReER9UI/AAAAAAAAABw/0U7QAPZQIZY/s1600/balance.jpg

If you move the rock on top, it affects the balance of everything below it. If you move a rock in the middle, it moves every rock above it AND affects the balance of all those below. You can't simply adjust a single piece an inch to the left, because each piece actively influences the balance of every other piece.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#24 - 2012-04-26 15:23:06 UTC
Mcpate wrote:
I'm not the typical Eve player in that all I know about computers is where the power button is. This is the first and only online computer game I have ever played. In fact, I use Eve as a resource whenever I have issues with my computers at home. My corp-mates and generally anyone in local, for that matter, can troubleshoot my computer far better than some geek from the big box store. So, could someone explain to me why CCP seems to have such a difficult time with their programming /coding or whatever in tweaking and changing this game we play? Is it REALLY a daunting and difficult task to get right?

When I adjust the valve lash on a shim-under-bucket twenty valve high performance engine, I do so with precision and I double and triple check my work. I check it once again before I button up the engine and reassemble the vehicle. I then test the vehicle and quad-triple check my work. I then have someone else check behind me. The COTTON PICKING thing works before I get paid...end of story.

I hope someone can explain why I cant relate my concrete, absolute, measurable task oriented world to this computer based programming/server/coding/gaming 'try it now and see if it works' world.


terrible analogy is terrible

does that finely tuned engine work as well when you drop it into a 1988 Honda Civic?
how about a crown vic chassis

better stick with telling your friends to buy moar ram.
Mcpate
Unknown Means Unknown Consequenses
#25 - 2012-04-26 19:55:38 UTC
I think it's interesting that some people go straight to criticizing my analogy and completely miss or ignore the point of answering the original question. Where the analogy serves simply to illustrate the question asked. Where there are two or more Eve players, there is a gank in process...even in the forums. Perhaps we don't need the unwieldy code to continue after all!

I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. Harry S. Truman
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#26 - 2012-04-26 20:11:57 UTC
Mcpate wrote:
I think it's interesting that some people go straight to criticizing my analogy and completely miss or ignore the point of answering the original question. Where the analogy serves simply to illustrate the question asked. Where there are two or more Eve players, there is a gank in process...even in the forums. Perhaps we don't need the unwieldy code to continue after all!

Not really, the question is simple and it has simply been answered: a modern computer program is infinitely more complex in design than that of a car engine.

As pointed out by a poster above some modern engines are controlled by computer software, this does not make that software complex. Eve is a program written by an army of designers, built and worked on over an entire decade. Some of the designers likely have not even met some of the others who wrote core components their code is required to interact with.

You cannot compare a simple combustion engine, and the predictable code written to control it, with the code of a game designed to run across multiple hardware configurations, on multiple operating systems, that was written by multiple designers many of which never actively collaborated.

By all rights it is an absolute miracle that Eve functions at all, and it is certainly a testament to how thoroughly the designers test and rewrite new functionality as it is added.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
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