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Corp Hopping Abuse in High Sec Wars must Die

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Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#61 - 2012-04-26 22:49:41 UTC
Corbin Blair wrote:
okst666 wrote:
Why should corphopping be nerfed?

Because it makes the wardec system pointless. And because god hates carebears. I know, I asked an amarrian.



CCP made the wardec system pointless in highsec when they allowed corp stacking.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#62 - 2012-04-26 22:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
I actually didn't want to steer this topic to a discussion on a specific solution. It is far more valuable to us (Team Super Friends) to see your own opinions on this. I won't yet tell you what we currently are doing on it, but will tell you that we are (and have) already done something about it internally. So please, keep posting away with experiences. This will help assure us that we are either going in the right direction with our solutions or not.


How about this?

The current system of allowing people to leave corp at will with no penalties is the correct one and anything that forces people to stay in corp is bad.

Because the moment you do it for the offensive side the gankers will at once demand you "hold" their targets in place.

Edit: As expected just look a few posts above. First they demand to hit the POS then of course they show their true colors. Want of easy ganks.

Way ahead of you, I am already demanding this.

And its not a desire of easy ganks, I'm a null sec character I have no use for war decs. But war is a part of Eve, as is ship destruction, avoiding these realities should not be as simple as hitting "quit corp".

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
None ofthe Above
#63 - 2012-04-26 23:40:39 UTC
Gogela wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Alexa Coates wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
You probably wouldn't be making this thread if you had read the dev blogs and Fanfest presentations from Super Friends. Just sayin'

daaaaaaamn op, must hurt to get burned by dev's.

Who really got burned?!?! lol looks like the DEV's pithy comment got hammered so he back pedaled:

Read the thread on Crimewatch.

Older one on Wardec system

This thread is stupid. Roll


Sorry Gogela, you and Paradox are wrong about this one.

Nothing in the CCP proposals deals with the individual character's leave corp, then rejoin corp for gank scenario. (Aside from the inadequate "stain" proposal, which isn't going to stop this.)

You guys aren't reading closely enough before declaring the OP stupid.

As for solutions:

FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
What I want to see happen: quitting a corp that is at war results in a cooldown of 7-30 days before you can rejoin the same corp.

What CCP will do: Something fitting with the rest of the half-baked Crimewatch ideas they're pushing.


Floppy is dead right. (Although not sure if the cooldown needs to be longer than 24 hours, but should be at least that.)

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
None ofthe Above
#64 - 2012-04-26 23:44:39 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
I actually didn't want to steer this topic to a discussion on a specific solution. It is far more valuable to us (Team Super Friends) to see your own opinions on this. I won't yet tell you what we currently are doing on it, but will tell you that we are (and have) already done something about it internally. So please, keep posting away with experiences. This will help assure us that we are either going in the right direction with our solutions or not.


How about this?

The current system of allowing people to leave corp at will with no penalties is the correct one and anything that forces people to stay in corp is bad.

Because the moment you do it for the offensive side the gankers will at once demand you "hold" their targets in place.

Edit: As expected just look a few posts above. First they demand to hit the POS then of course they show their true colors. Want of easy ganks.


Yeah the followups are embarrassing but the original issue is still valid.

Agreed that I can't see restricting people (non-officers anyway) from leaving corp working out well. I don't think the war should follow them either. Rejoining on the other hand seems like something that could be restricted. 24 hour plus cooldown or stasis seems appropriate.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#65 - 2012-04-27 00:03:51 UTC
Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.

If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#66 - 2012-04-27 00:06:03 UTC
Parsee789 wrote:
Kobal81 wrote:
HTFU Big smile


I say CCP should make it so that you can Force War Targets out of stations. Force them to commit to a fight.


force them so you can grief them you mean. Yeah we totally wanna make the industrial players leave the game. Sounds great to me Roll

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#67 - 2012-04-27 00:22:14 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.

If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.


Well if you don't want to risk PvP in high sec then we should just continue allowing corp hopping to avoid conflict, and nerf everything profitable in high sec into the ground to compensate.

Either you allow some kind of PvP interaction with PvE, or you radically reduce the profit of that PvE. This is the way it has always been, in all well designed games but especially in Eve.

Personally I'd rather see it made harder to avoid PvP, than see high sec nerfed into oblivion. And it will be nerfed into oblivion, as long as it is a risk free zone with relatively high profit people will continue to call for nerfs. At least by allowing some kind of structured PvP you could create an element of risk that goes beyond suicide ganking.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Endeavour Starfleet
#68 - 2012-04-27 00:53:47 UTC
Just say you want easy ganks and be done with it. Hisec has already been nerfed to the ground.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#69 - 2012-04-27 01:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Just say you want easy ganks and be done with it. Hisec has already been nerfed to the ground.

Well to be honest I think it's a bit too early to say in terms of incursions, people will adapt and we can judge their success then.

If you want a PvE zone for easily avoidable PvP though then it really should be a baby training zone, like they are in other games. Not a "10% reduction in profit for time invested" zone, literally just a largely worthless zone for players only just starting out.

*EDIT: As for your ganks comment, feel free to look up this corp on battleclinic. Whilst I freely admit this is an alt corp, it is set up to support my main accounts, and it is quite obvious we never operate in empire space. We are syndicate based.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Rekon X
Doomheim
#70 - 2012-04-27 02:16:42 UTC
Parsee789 wrote:
Marcus Ichiro wrote:
Easiest solution:

Actually look for decent fights instead of picking on carebears and being surprised when they balk at the prospect of losing their stuff.


Did you even read my post? I got wardecced, but the aggressors refuse to fight us face to face. Instead they just want easy kills and they simply jump corps so we can't shoot at them without getting concorded.


They are cowards. That is what hi sec war decs are about. To give the cowards a way to scout out weak targets in the safety of hisec and war dec them.

They don't expect anyone to fight back.

What corp was it?

I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-04-27 02:32:26 UTC
Rekon X wrote:
Parsee789 wrote:
Marcus Ichiro wrote:
Easiest solution:

Actually look for decent fights instead of picking on carebears and being surprised when they balk at the prospect of losing their stuff.


Did you even read my post? I got wardecced, but the aggressors refuse to fight us face to face. Instead they just want easy kills and they simply jump corps so we can't shoot at them without getting concorded.


They are cowards. That is what hi sec war decs are about. To give the cowards a way to scout out weak targets in the safety of hisec and war dec them.

They don't expect anyone to fight back.

What corp was it?


isnt that what the new thing is for where you can hire out mercenaries? They way those cowards never get their weak targets and the merc groups get to kick their asses instead?

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-04-27 02:34:22 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Just say you want easy ganks and be done with it. Hisec has already been nerfed to the ground.


The cowards never say that straight out. They hide in alt corps and pretend they're based out of Syndicate

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#73 - 2012-04-27 02:40:03 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Just say you want easy ganks and be done with it. Hisec has already been nerfed to the ground.


The cowards never say that straight out. They hide in alt corps and pretend they're based out of Syndicate

I especially like the irony of a 9 day old forum alt making that remark :) I could swap to posting on a PvP alt if that you would make you feel better?

I haven't killed anything in empire on any of my characters in years, in fact I haven't even PvP'd much recently. Mostly I've just been amassing a giant pile of loot because I feel like it.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#74 - 2012-04-27 03:09:59 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
MadMuppet wrote:
Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.

If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.


Well if you don't want to risk PvP in high sec then we should just continue allowing corp hopping to avoid conflict, and nerf everything profitable in high sec into the ground to compensate.

.


TBH I see more problems with people corp hopping in & out seeking to find easy KM's then hopping out once they get targeted back. So its sort of like hitting someone when noone's looking in the back of the head then running to a cop & sticking out thier tongues saying naaa naaa when the person tries to smack them back.
Maybe a deposit system is needed for people that join a wardecked corp & if they leave before the wardeck is over the ISK goes to the other corp?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#75 - 2012-04-27 03:14:52 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
MadMuppet wrote:
Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.

If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.


Well if you don't want to risk PvP in high sec then we should just continue allowing corp hopping to avoid conflict, and nerf everything profitable in high sec into the ground to compensate.

.


TBH I see more problems with people corp hopping in & out seeking to find easy KM's then hopping out once they get targeted back. So its sort of like hitting someone when noone's looking in the back of the head then running to a cop & sticking out thier tongues saying naaa naaa when the person tries to smack them back.
Maybe a deposit system is needed for people that join a wardecked corp & if they leave before the wardeck is over the ISK goes to the other corp?

I think the currently proposed mechanics are fine for that, once you leave a corp at war you cannot rejoin it while that war is active. If griefers try corp hopping they'll have wasted a war dec, and the fees, and have only an empty corp to show for it.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#76 - 2012-04-27 04:46:19 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:

But the issue here is bouncing in and out of the corp that has made the war declaration. A balanced solution might be if you leave a corp that is at war, you cannot rejoin that corp until it is not at war, or one week has passed.


A week is probably too long. My feelings are:

- You should always be able to drop out into a NPC corp without much difficulty.
- There should be limits on how fast you can cycle between corps (or between alliances as a corporate entity).
- Director kicks should be put into a queue and take effect at the next session change (or downtime).
- Once you change corps, you should have a 24-48 hour lockout on being able to apply to a new corp.
- Dropping corp actions should be queued and take effect at the next session change.
- Corps should probably only be able to change alliance membership every 3-7 days.

Even if you could only change corps once per day, it would slow down a lot of the exploits. Especially if you were forced to session change before it takes effect.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#77 - 2012-04-27 04:49:49 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:

But the issue here is bouncing in and out of the corp that has made the war declaration. A balanced solution might be if you leave a corp that is at war, you cannot rejoin that corp until it is not at war, or one week has passed.


A week is probably too long. My feelings are:

- You should always be able to drop out into a NPC corp without much difficulty.
- There should be limits on how fast you can cycle between corps (or between alliances as a corporate entity).
- Director kicks should be put into a queue and take effect at the next session change (or downtime).
- Once you change corps, you should have a 24-48 hour lockout on being able to apply to a new corp.
- Dropping corp actions should be queued and take effect at the next session change.
- Corps should probably only be able to change alliance membership every 3-7 days.

Even if you could only change corps once per day, it would slow down a lot of the exploits. Especially if you were forced to session change before it takes effect.

So... Where are the buffs to griefing in here?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#78 - 2012-04-27 10:43:56 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
Anything that turns corps in to prisons is not going to fly. The question would be what percentage of vested players would accept the NPC corp taxes or quit because they could be engaged with no viable option to defend themselves? Turning players into unwilling slaves is not a game.

If you were to run from a fight and get cornered in a station with no option but die or log off, how long would you put up with that before you would take your time and money elsewhere? While Eve is considered a sandbox, nobody is going to play in it if they keep getting buried up to their waist and all the other players keep coming by to tickle their feet.


I believe in any military organization, even though it is not exactly a good thing, there is not much one can do to stop some of them from going AWOL.

AWOL is punished.

Mayhaps......an ISK Fee for leaving the decced Corp.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#79 - 2012-04-27 10:49:27 UTC
Parsee789 wrote:

Highsec wars are a complete joke
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#80 - 2012-04-27 10:52:54 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Parsee789 wrote:

Highsec wars are a complete joke




You were saying ?????? Speak up, we can't here you.......

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882