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Legion Buff
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Adeena Torcfist
R3b3llium
Get Off My Lawn
#21 - 2012-04-30 10:50:24 UTC
parasitic should have a range bonus & keep the current amount bonus. HAMs need more damage or at the very least, travel further than they currently do, with maybe a small drone bay.

Drone sub needs an overhaul.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#22 - 2012-04-30 11:09:26 UTC
deppth wrote:
So I watched the video at fan-fest about the ship balancing.

I noticed the Legion was highlighted in red, does this mean It's getting a buff at last!? because at the moment it's a very limited ship with terrible DPS for the training required.

The max I've seen a legion do is 850dps. And that's with faction modules....



You buff the legion and there literally will be no reason to fly the far more skill intensive Absolution. The legion is basically better at being an absolution than the absolution is.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#23 - 2012-04-30 13:25:35 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
You buff the legion and there literally will be no reason to fly the far more skill intensive Absolution. The legion is basically better at being an absolution than the absolution is.


This is true, but really - go compare the Proteus to the Astarte and especially the Tengu to the Nighthawk.

Absolution and Astarte atleast have some benefits over a T3 - whilst the Nighthawk has none whatsoever over the Tengu.

Combat fit T3s and Command ships need a bit of tweaking accross the board.
deppth
Sunstone Mining and Industry Assembly
#24 - 2012-04-30 14:21:16 UTC
The legion needs more range or a drone bay!
Darex Nidor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-04-30 14:24:06 UTC
Legion needs damage bonus for cov ops sub Roll
Adeena Torcfist
R3b3llium
Get Off My Lawn
#26 - 2012-05-01 11:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Adeena Torcfist
I think when the legion gets buffed, they will adjust the commandships accordingly. So i really wouldnt worry. In fact, a few ships may get a slight buff.

I fi dont see range & amount on the parasitic sub, more range or vastly more damage on the HAM's, the Cov ops overhaul & drone sub Fixed, not only will i not be happy, but it'll be a waste of time.

Tho i have confidence that the developers are already looking into this, & testing of the new modified stats will be up on SiSi soon© for testing Lol
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-05-01 14:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Gul'gotha Derv'ash
I think the main problem with T3's in general is that the Tengu is leaps and bounds above the others. It can do just about everything any of the other T3's can do and usually does it better. That makes everyone look at T3's and think everything but the Tengu sucks. Which in all but specific situations (when compared to the Tengu), they do.

I think that the Tengu needs taken down a peg or two, or the other T3's need to get buff in a few spots. Look in the character bazaar. 75% of toons for sale are Tengu alts or pre-Tengu starters.



This is the breakdown I hear from most people in regards to T3s.

Tengu: I do everything and do it well
Legion: Solo Explorer/C2-3 soloer
Protues: 1k dps cloaky or huge tank bralwer
Loki: Expensive recon/hac


That being said, it will be interesting to see how all ships will go when the revamp and new modules come along. Hopefully we get some balancing across the board and those useless ships get some loving.
Skelee VI
Swamp Panthers
Bog Brotherhood
#28 - 2012-05-01 17:46:17 UTC
the legion was red, cause it was about to kill a tengu! LOL
they should make it black."Black Legion".
How many of you who made comments about a a legion, have actually flown one?
I will fly a legion over tengu anyday. tengu is just a beefed up drake that likes to run away from battle.
Tengu = good ratting ship, thats all it is good for.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-05-01 18:18:47 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Legion is crap, no way around it.
Only thing it does very well is neut.


The 100MN AB-HAM Legion would like to speak to you.

How exactly is this supposed to work when the maximum range of HAMs on a Legion, not assuming Javelins, is about 25 km? You can't turn on a dime with the 100MN AB active and if you try to that mostly defeats the purpose of fitting one in the first place.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Sindjin Hawke
Distant Light Syndicate
#30 - 2012-05-01 18:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sindjin Hawke
The Legion needs alaser buff. Capacitor use, damage and range.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-05-01 19:37:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

How exactly is this supposed to work when the maximum range of HAMs on a Legion, not assuming Javelins, is about 25 km? You can't turn on a dime with the 100MN AB active and if you try to that mostly defeats the purpose of fitting one in the first place.


You just go in, brawl w/e down until your buffer gets low, then use the 100MN AB to burn away and escape.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-05-01 20:06:37 UTC
I've never flown one (though I could in a day) and front what I've seen the Legion is a nice ship, but doesn't hold up to the other T3s.

Tengu: Awesome at everything, someone might need to put a leash around it though I don't think it's necessary.
Proteus: Can't do PVE for it's life, but will melt everything in PVP
Loki: Seeing less use do to the Hybrid buff, but manages to still be viable for it's heavy tackler roll.
Legion: Best looking ship in the game, that's about it. Anything it can do another T3 can do better.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-05-01 20:17:42 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

Legion: Best looking ship in the game, that's about it. Anything it can do another T3 can do better.


Armor HAC.
Aerich e'Kieron
Peace.Keepers
Federation Front Line
#34 - 2012-05-01 22:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerich e'Kieron
Wow. Morons.

*EDIT* Was going to update this with why, but as there is so much wrong with everything I don't know where to begin and thus will just hold my tongue.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-05-02 00:03:34 UTC
Arguably, if you look at this diagram by CCP, you could probably say the Legion is balanced in its intended position and the others, especially the Tengu are out of line.

In fact, in certain things, the T3's are actually on par or better than the T2 specialised variants anyway (Boostnig, Scanning), so you could argue they all need a nerf.

It just so happens with T3's that the Tengu towers so far above the rest that it makes the others look bad in comparison when they're not actually terrible. The current Drake and Hurricane do this across the entire BC lineup, which means you have to be careful about asking for buffs all the time, otherwise you run the risk of turning workable ships (Myrm, 'Binger in this example) into OP b*stards.

/Alternative point of view.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#36 - 2012-05-02 00:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dato Koppla
T3 buff will **** all over HACs which already took a turd to the face from Tier 2 Battlecruisers that have 30% more tank, 10% more dps, for 60% less cost.

Sure T3s cost a bunch more but they already have better bonus and stats than HACs.

Edit//
I feel like an across the board increase in agility/speed/scan res/sig reduction/maybe a mwd sig bonus will make HACs the premier heavy tackle in small gangs while bringing decent dps. Maybe tank figures need to be adjusted to not make the speed tank too good.
Sunviking
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-05-02 17:20:53 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Jekto Altaris wrote:
Please link a Tengu fit with 1200+ dps and not a 1200+ dps tank.


Not possible, but this does 1000+ dps without implants and has 1000 dps tank.

[Tengu, Tengu fit]

Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
[Empty High slot]

Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified EM Ward Field

Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I





Tengu can easily do 1200dps+ overheated, for quite a while too.

I got about 1043DPS on an EFT Tengu fit, using implants and Estamel's BCS, perfect skills too.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#38 - 2012-05-02 21:01:18 UTC
Sunviking wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Jekto Altaris wrote:
Please link a Tengu fit with 1200+ dps and not a 1200+ dps tank.


Not possible, but this does 1000+ dps without implants and has 1000 dps tank.

[Tengu, Tengu fit]

Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Assault Missile
[Empty High slot]

Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified EM Ward Field

Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System
Estamel's Modified Ballistic Control System

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I





Tengu can easily do 1200dps+ overheated, for quite a while too.

I got about 1043DPS on an EFT Tengu fit, using implants and Estamel's BCS, perfect skills too.


You really should not balance things just because officier modules makes something powerful. Officer mods make EVERYTHING OP for a lot of isk.
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-05-02 21:42:02 UTC
The Legion needs something done to the capacitor use on its guns, its pretty difficult to get a cap stable Legion even with max skills. The damage needs to be tweaked to be in line with the other T3s relative to their HAC counterparts. Why fly a Legion when you can fly a slightly higher DPS Zealot for half the price.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-05-03 07:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
adopt wrote:
The Legion needs something done to the capacitor use on its guns, its pretty difficult to get a cap stable Legion even with max skills. The damage needs to be tweaked to be in line with the other T3s relative to their HAC counterparts. Why fly a Legion when you can fly a slightly higher DPS Zealot for half the price.

Cap stability is a crutch. Unless you intend to have all your mods on at all times then it's really not necessary.
I solo sanctums in my legion and it isn't cap stable. I pulse my repper and use a combination of speed and signature radius tank. I kill the smaller rats first because they ironically do more damage and I have to keep my rep running, but when those are gone I can leave my afterburner on and run the rep once every minute or so.
I've never ran out of cap.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
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