These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Skill Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Active Skill Training Bonus (yay or nay)
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
stoicfaux
#21 - 2012-04-25 19:09:48 UTC
Elsbeth Taron wrote:

So as the topic is how to reward players for being active in the game, how about speed up training in Minmatar Cruiser depending on my standing with the Minmatar Republic? Can't see how that can be exploited, I'll have put in the hours getting that standing. Maybe also benefit training in projectile weapons, as they're our favoured weapons.

Botting would be the main problem. Currently there are bots that will grind missions, rat, mine, etc., all day. That is what you would be up against. Plus, as pointed out earlier, you can grind without botting. This would just lead to more server load as people shot at each other in permatanked ships in order to grind up skills. Long story short, active skill training would result in more people botting, macroing, and/or putting their guns on auto-repeat instead of actually playing the game.

One of the big attractions to the Eve training system is that you're not required to grind skills while sitting at the keyboard. Instead, you can come home, hop in your ship and do X, where X is anything more fun then performing the same set of keystrokes over and over to watch some skill meter increase by a fraction.

A one hour a week player may have the same skills as a forty hours a week player, but the one hour a week player probably isn't going to be as good at flying his Rifter in PvP. In Eve, skills are often more of a means to an end than an actual goal in and of themselves. Meaning, player ability and teamwork will trump a "high level" character.

Grinding would also be more efficient versus PvE content, however Eve is more about playing in a PvP sandbox than PvE content, so skill grinding goes against Eve's gameplay paradigm. Active skill grinding in Eve would be like grinding up the skills of a pawn in the game of chess; it doesn't really fit the game.

Basically, skill training has already been massively boosted with the removal of the learning skills, you have decent control over your training rate via implants and remaps, grinding doesn't fit the Eve gameplay paradigm, and anything that is grindy will be botted, which is why people tend to frown on the idea of active/grindy skill training.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone
Ironworks Coalition
#22 - 2012-04-26 02:32:22 UTC
Richecks Ecks wrote:
What if there was a skill (active learning) or something that was to give a slight boost for your current train?
i.e.- youre training mining. if mining, you get a -2%, -4%, -6% train time if actively using the skill.
- using tungston hybrid ammo or any long range ammo while training sharpshooter?

Neural remap. And no.

The Gaming MoD - retro to modern, console to MMO, I blog about it if it's a game and I'm interested in it. Yes, I play games other than Eve and I don't care if you think I'm wrong.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-26 02:57:30 UTC
No... And umm no!
Boomhaur
#24 - 2012-04-26 03:05:52 UTC
Lets just say screw it and bring back learning skills, and than implement the whole you train your skills faster for skills you use. This way when I want to train up my autocannons I can jump into a reaper and shoot at roids all day with a civ autocannon while AFK. Ohh and I want to pay AUR for SP. And I don't want an eyepatch I want my freaking pegleg and a hook for a hand and a freaking pony that shoots laser beams out of its freaking head, I shall call him Amarr.

Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you.
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-04-26 07:29:00 UTC
Boomhaur wrote:
Lets just say screw it and bring back learning skills, and than implement the whole you train your skills faster for skills you use. This way when I want to train up my autocannons I can jump into a reaper and shoot at roids all day with a civ autocannon while AFK. Ohh and I want to pay AUR for SP. And I don't want an eyepatch I want my freaking pegleg and a hook for a hand and a freaking pony that shoots laser beams out of its freaking head, I shall call him Amarr.


Any idea what you want for your eleventh birthday? Ugh
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-04-26 07:33:07 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Elsbeth Taron wrote:

So as the topic is how to reward players for being active in the game, how about speed up training in Minmatar Cruiser depending on my standing with the Minmatar Republic? Can't see how that can be exploited, I'll have put in the hours getting that standing. Maybe also benefit training in projectile weapons, as they're our favoured weapons.

Botting would be the main problem. Currently there are bots that will grind ....


This was one of the very few sane responses; even I gave it a thumbs up.

So the idea is OK, but the game mechanics probably make it unfeasable. Fair enough.
Col Arran
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-04-26 23:27:28 UTC
Nay, I didn't come to EVE to have it turn into WoW.
Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#28 - 2012-04-27 00:08:05 UTC
Nope, nope, and nope.
What I personally like about the skills is that, even though my computer at this point in time can not run EVE for more than 15 minutes before crashing (bad functioning cooling system on my laptop and getting old for a gaming-aimed computer as well), I can still train skills without any problems. I log on once a day, put skills in the queue, and I'm good to go. This is even MORE useful for skills past level II or III obviously, as they take more than a day...

Having skill train times reduced as additional reward for more active playing still gives people an unfair advantage, as they have more time to play. People who have a very small time window to play the game, because of any reason, should not be put at a disadvantage as opposed to the more active people.

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2012-04-27 01:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Elsbeth Taron wrote:
So as the topic is how to reward players for being active in the game
They are already being rewarded. They earn more ISK; they become better at the game; they form more bonds.

Again, the idea has been tried — it only generates bad behaviour and distracts people from actually playing the game. It is also impossible to make it universally applicable to the wide skill set EVE offers and cannot be balanced properly across all the play styles. And finally, it doesn't solve any problem. In fact, all mechanics throughout the history of EVE that have been working in kind of the same direction as this idea have methodically been removed because they cause problems, so adding anything of the kind back in will not only fail to address any problems but will actually create new ones. That is not a good direction to “develop” the game.

Quote:
So the idea is OK, but the game mechanics probably make it unfeasable
Not really. The idea is bad, and there are no mechanics to remove those bad parts and salvage anything useful from it.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#30 - 2012-04-27 10:24:42 UTC
Azemar wrote:
While I do not have the knowledge to properly create it, I still feel as if there should be some way to actively increase your training time. A way that would have no grinding and incorporate no P2W. The current system benefits only old players and discourages new ones.


Multiple characters, strict specialization on each. You'll achieve the same breadth and depth of SP as an older character in a very short period of time. You'll even have the benefit of cheaper clone costs for fighting toons, along with the ability to be anywhere you want, whenever you want (if you spread your toons out).

As for active increase in training time without grind or P2W...

  • without a repetitive action (grind), the game wouldn't be able to measure progress, if you wanted to tie training to doing stuff in game.
  • without some payment, it's not active, if you wanted to tie training into paying for something (hint: they're called Learning Implants, and they've been around a while).


The current system benefits casual/intermittant players, and discourages impatient players. Working as intended.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Blackmerk
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-04-27 21:14:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Blackmerk
Keep it fresh and challenging not old and stale. Most of the bots have been rounded up and taken to the flesh fair. I would like to have some more Cap skills to 5 before i collect my 401k please!
I want to burn isk to train faster. even if only a tiny bit.

ps Burn JIta!, save the drakes

I'M PRO-BUFF AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#32 - 2012-04-27 21:50:20 UTC
Learning skills in general very rapidly turn into non-optional skills, i.e. time sinks for players before they can actually get to training what they want to train.

This was the problem with the old learning skills and you've done nothing to address the issue in your proposal.

If you really feel the need to "cheat the system" that much, there's already a way to do it: buy a character on character bazaar and start with a jillion extra skill points.
Orlacc
#33 - 2012-04-28 05:03:22 UTC
Mods, can we consolidate these daily threads about the same idea?

The fact that OP didn't take a minute to see the thread below about the exact topic shows the type who would want this.



"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Hans Momaki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-05-06 21:53:10 UTC
EvE is adapt or die.

But, wheres the fun part, if adaption takes forever?
Imagine a new player, who is a miner in his heart. He skills 3 months to be a decent hulk pilot, and mines his heart out to buy one, to get ganked in a 0.7 by a trasher, without any chance of survival.

He now decides to scratch mining, and starts learning industry skills, to build his own stuff.. after 3 months of sitting on his ass, he is able to afford a PoS and use it with his kills, but.. He has to grind standing for his corp. His corp is not having enough standing for a "save" high-sec PoS, so he needs to make a new one, and grind standing for it ...

I'm quite sure you guys can see this point.

Adaption takes forever, just because there is no way to have an active impact on it. If a player wants to increase his learning rate, he should have the option to do so.

Sure, older players don't have that problem, but the slow rate of beeing able to do meaningful stuff is just boring, and that's the whole reason why so many new players are leaving. I for myself was really frustrated that hybrids sucked for so long, so I scratched Hybrids and started to skill for something different. It took forever, and was booring ****.

Anyway,

Older players don't feel love for this idea, because they have an advantage over new players through SP at the moment. If new players could catch up through playing, they would have to use this mechanismt too, because they could lose their advantage. Active SP is not bad at all, and CCP could make it work ( restrictions like " No SP for more than 10 shots on a target/ X actions on a BP, 3 cycles on a roid etc. ).

Botting is not a problem either, because CCP can kill botting, they are just to lazy as documented in latest Botting dev-blog.

Active SP would be a benefit for EvE, even if it would be restricted to the first 20 mil SP, just because it would flatten the ammount of players leaving eve after a short time.

It would also help players to achieve stepping stones earlier (like paying your sub with Plex, beeing able to join incursions, be a decent wormhole - player with scanning skills, and a variety of ships to fly etc. etc.).

Pay2win is no viable option either, just because character progression is a main principle of every RPG. There is no point in just buying it.
Kailean
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-05-07 11:02:25 UTC
Pyrosomniac wrote:
Prime example would be Social Skills. It doesn't make a lot of sense that people like you because you read a book. Social would be gained by missioning with different NPC's of different personalities. Connections would be earned by having ACTUAL connections, Diplomacy is earned by being a Diplomat for your race, eg, helping out Amarr people as Gallente.

I like to think that the skills are merely abstractions; you're not "reading a book", you're having conversations with important people, making promises, backing political players, economical support and all that. Building a network. Since it's mostly NPC-based I don't have a real need to see just how it's done. Most every skill can be explained in this way, if you think about it.

It works for me, at least.

Also, no to active skill training.
Bow'en
Solutum
#36 - 2012-05-09 16:31:36 UTC
Hans Momaki wrote:

Imagine a new player, who is a miner in his heart. He skills 3 months to be a decent hulk pilot, and mines his heart out to buy one, to get ganked in a 0.7 by a trasher, without any chance of survival.

Then he shouldn't have been in a Hulk. Don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it.
Previous page12