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Failure To Assimilate The Matari: A Post Mortem

Author
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#41 - 2012-04-26 13:53:58 UTC
Ssakaa wrote:
Gosakumori Noh wrote:


Meanwhile, the Krusual - who share the ingenious traits of the Sebiestor but have instead been demonized for them - harbor the least favorable opinion of their tinkering rivals among the lot.



From where or whom did you obtain this information?


The darkest cavities of her lower digestive system.

In other words, straight fresh from her ass. Though drugs may have something to do with it.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#42 - 2012-04-26 15:01:15 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
...

We Amarr understand this.

Peas in a pod, you might call the two of us.

...


I have preferred to avoid involving myself too deeply in the conversation here, but as someone who studies the propagation and structure of ideas, I just wanted to say: this is impressive. You are a grand-master of the dark arts of memetic engineering. Or grand-mistress, if you prefer it. The accusations of madness are highly over-rated.
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#43 - 2012-04-26 15:33:10 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Nursery rhymes?

I do believe you missed the entire point, though this of course is a far more telling response than I had hoped for.

Thank you for the insight.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#44 - 2012-04-26 23:15:31 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Ssakaa wrote:
Gosakumori Noh wrote:


Meanwhile, the Krusual - who share the ingenious traits of the Sebiestor but have instead been demonized for them - harbor the least favorable opinion of their tinkering rivals among the lot.



From where or whom did you obtain this information?


The darkest cavities of her lower digestive system.

In other words, straight fresh from her ass. Though drugs may have something to do with it.


My ass... or a view of Matari history going back a bit longer than, let's see, five months and 28 days. Some of us remember the Old Records, sweet pea, and some of those remain preserved to this very day.

Old Record

I quote: "The Sebiestors are technically and mechanically inclined, most Minmatar technology comes from them. The Sebiestors have always been the leading tribe in the Minmatar Republic, though their authority has many times been under attack from the crafty Krusual tribe, their main rivals in Republic politics."

You are *victim.*

Yes, a victim of the historical sanitizers that have tried, bravely, to present the Republic as united. I know, I know, how could you have realized the truth (without performing some meager research into your newly adopted cause)? All's well that ends well, though! Now you know Matari history is more complex than perhaps you ever dreamed during those other months as a "pirate."
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#45 - 2012-04-26 23:31:36 UTC
I'd like to know what exactly you put in those drinks of yours.

Just so I know to avoid that concoction next time I try mixing something new.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-04-27 05:00:52 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
I'd like to know what exactly you put in those drinks of yours.

Just so I know to avoid that concoction next time I try mixing something new.


I don't know if you need to worry about the cocktail so much as the copious amounts of Mindflood.


"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#47 - 2012-04-27 10:27:54 UTC
It's a safe bet to assume that Krusualuu, wherever they are to be found, invest in proxies in the modern age for almost anything you care to name. I'm exceptionally proud to be one of the very few capsuleers who received a sponsorship from them, -indirectly, being of one of their clans minor -so not in a great particular need for history lessons.

However, to correct some of your observations, all one needs to do is to swan about in Metropolis heading towards Eram and Elgoi and then the roundabout route to Heimatar to see Sebiestor and Krusual proxy interests sit almost physically side by side in space.

As a new caspsuleer, I temporarily left the masterfully reclaimed Krusual strongholds in the former nefantar dung-heap (Ani) and headed straight there on instruction, of a kind. Sort of a mini-adventure in space-side politics, if you will. Interesting experience, all in all, most especially being half-Sebiestor tsuuya or half-blood although claiming neultrality was, and still is, pointless.

Gosakumori Noh, mendacity is a powerful word and a kyyfalaam (way-of-life) for some. For others it is anathema. That's all that need to be said about certain tribal relations, apropos, and no more than that. I doubt you'd have the time to penetrate the many layers of it, nor have the inclination. Because you're Amarr, you'll not get to the bottom of it.

Essissima, and I beg pardon to all for using colloqualisms but I love my chosen tribe and their customs and languages.

"Modern Life is Rubbish"

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-04-27 11:26:28 UTC
You are a silly and vacuous little woman.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-04-27 11:34:25 UTC
Ssakaa wrote:
Everything that was just said.


I like this woman.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#50 - 2012-04-27 13:56:22 UTC
Halete wrote:
Ssakaa wrote:
Everything that was just said.


I like this woman.


Yes, I liked the 'nefantar dung-heap' part. Any excuse at all.


May your Lotus forever remain White, Halete.

"Modern Life is Rubbish"

Luna Mori
AmmuNacionale
#51 - 2012-04-27 16:20:41 UTC
We capsuleers tend to think that our loyalties and allegiances are somehow representative of the rest of the population (I am guilty too). I suspect that we are actually so far removed from our 'roots' we may as well be a seperate race.

We have to assume that the Matari population of today cannot easily be compartmented into discrete sectors or Tribes. Nature would not allow it and nor would an occupying empire hell-bent on forced migration, genocide, etc. A high degree of 'mixing' is certain. Even many capsuleers openly claim mixed heritage, and beyond just one race.

I find it difficult to see how any capsuleer not actively involved with the Matari population can claim they even remotely understand it's intricacies. That would simply be stereotyping and ignorant.

General Secretary, Ani Tribal Assembly

Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#52 - 2012-04-27 17:08:55 UTC
Ssakaa wrote:
I doubt you'd have the time to penetrate the many layers of it, nor have the inclination.


I've apparently had more time and inclination to penetrate the layers than many Matari - haven't I, sweetie?

Ancient rivalries have burned behind the facade of Matari unity for many, many ages. It is the most interesting feature of your people; and, coincidentally, the feature the least interesting members of Matari society run from. But the act of claiming membership in one tribe is simultaneously the act of disavowing membership in any other. The Krusual Tribe shall have its day in the suns, and I commend you for trying to put the Sebiestor at ease... before you cut them open and eat their hearts. We Amarr understand these things.

However, I am not after the destruction of a tribe my ancestors have contended with across many, many ages.

I recognize that the Sebiestor have genuine gifts. Although they created a bifurcated economy in Matari society, claiming the professional track for themselves, we Amarr understand these things. We are a civilization of earned mobility - the only true meritocracy in New Eden.

There have been several solutions to our crucible of hardships, now.

Most "tribes" that face the heat become completely assimilated - footnotes in history. But a very few adapt and prosper. Khannid excellence with arms elevated that "tribe" to complete independence and honor. The unassuming Ni-Kunni have quietly built their place as Amarr's sprawling middle and upper middle classes. The scheming Udorians are so in tune with the nature of Imperial politics, they now stand but one Trial from the throne.

I am absolutely confident that, in a thousand years, the Sebiester too shall emerge from this crucible of merit, much changed, much better - for themselves, and the Empire.

I thank you for your part in it. In time, perhaps history shall thank you as well.
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#53 - 2012-04-28 01:50:15 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
I am absolutely confident that, in a thousand years, the Sebiester too shall emerge from this crucible of merit, much changed, much better - for themselves, and the Empire.

Quite a pretentious statement from someone also proclaiming the virtue of humility.

Quote:
I recognize that the Sebiestor have genuine gifts.

Gifts you wish to use to your own advantage no doubt. Taking the Sebiestor first would give you access to these gifts, non?

You are not a brilliant tactician, a great mastermind, or even some deranged prophet. I wouldn't even say you're insane, because there is far too much structure and intent in your messages. So here is a "gift" from a Sebiestor with a little bit of insight: It is easy to make proclamations about how things will be in 1,000 years; it takes attention off the fact that you can do nothing now. Further, there is no way to disprove your statements. You are creating such a wonderfully secure position for yourself, one that you can snipe at others from, but are you actually doing anything? Are you furthering your goals? In a few weeks, when everyone has grown tired of your incessant rambling, will anyone even remember what you were talking about?

Will they even care?

You are a Capsuleer, little one. Get out of the pulpit, stop hiding and drinking. Do something. All I see is you attempting to hide behind a pseudo-intellectual, self-aggrandizing fallacy to compensate for your own shortcomings.

It's quite simple to prove me wrong. Right now, thisSebiestor is saying she knows you are weaker than she is.

Will you let that insult go unanswered?
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#54 - 2012-04-28 05:01:56 UTC
Deceiver's Voice wrote:

Quite a pretentious statement from someone also proclaiming the virtue of humility.


One does not need to possess a quality to recognize its merit, pumpkin. The art curator need not be a gifted painter, the sports fan need not have mastered every position on the field.

Deceiver's Voice wrote:

You are creating such a wonderfully secure position for yourself, one that you can snipe at others from, but are you actually doing anything? Are you furthering your goals? In a few weeks, when everyone has grown tired of your incessant rambling, will anyone even remember what you were talking about?


"Sniping" in this case being to point out the historical reality of Matari civilization for the benefit of those new to the cause. How terribly rude of me.

But every line that every Sebiestor has written in *this* discussion is a line said Sebiester has not written about Amarr. If opportunity has value, then yes, I have "actually done something." With respect to attention spans, those of us who are charismatic, interesting, and humble are able to come and go in the popular consciousness. I don't have to keep people listening for years and years. I just have to be charismatic, interesting, and humble again at some future point.

Deceiver's Voice wrote:

Right now, thisSebiestor is saying she knows you are weaker than she is. Will you let that insult go unanswered?


Indeed I shall. Now, I'm sure that you are *very* mighty, poodle butt. However, there have always been capsuleers far mightier than little old scatterbrained me - and yet, the stars continue to shine.

To review the proposition:

"Instead of trying to Reclaim the entire Republic, Amarr should enslave just the Sebiestor, as punishment for their racial crimes. Other tribes in the Republic should allow the Sebiestor to be enslaved, as punishment for their racial crimes."

Accomplishing this requires that:

1. The Empire modify its policies with respect to both slavery and the Republic.

2. The other tribes modify their policies with respect to the Sebiestor.

3 (optional). *Some* Sebiestor recognize that they have been a racist force in Matari civilization, and welcome the opportunity to atone for the sins of the past by setting the foundations for a future Amarr ruled by a Sebiestor sovereign. Now, I can't see how that might accrue to the benefit of *both* Matar and Amarr. Oh, wait, actually I can.

I guess I'm a prophetess after all.

For the first requirement, it should be apparent that you are irrelevant. Given that the first is where I must begin, you will be irrelevant for some time. When this discussion has died down (so as not to clutter the forum unduly), I will reach out to the movers and the shakers in the Amarr-and-related spheres, to see if they may be receptive to crafting a policy consistent with "let's just Reclaim the Sebiestor."

After all, the approach has put Sebiestor sympathizers on the defensive - and that's with just little old scatterbrained me. Were it to become widespread, it might reach the ears of Amarr's policy makers. It doesn't matter that I've gone and told you my sinister plan, so great is my humility, I understand that there is nothing you can do about it.

I must start at (1) because only with the backing of the Empire would it make any sense to move on to (2). Should we get that far, suddenly you are (slightly) more relevant. Now, won't that make you happy? Wait. I know the answer: yes it will.

I guess I'm a prophetess after all.




Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#55 - 2012-04-28 08:49:05 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:


Most "tribes" that face the heat become completely assimilated - footnotes in history. But a very few adapt and prosper. Khannid excellence with arms elevated that "tribe" to complete independence and honor. The unassuming Ni-Kunni have quietly built their place as Amarr's sprawling middle and upper middle classes. The scheming Udorians are so in tune with the nature of Imperial politics, they now stand but one Trial from the throne.


Tell us about Udorians, Gosakumori Noh. What is your opinion?

"Modern Life is Rubbish"

ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#56 - 2012-04-28 12:12:04 UTC
I don't even consider myself matari, yet even i feel some strange anger at the concept of asking the republic and other tribes to allow the slavery of one tribe. It is strange but it makes me mad enough to go destroy some DED ships to calm down.
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#57 - 2012-04-28 14:34:23 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
I guess I'm a prophetess after all.

No, you are not.

Quote:
1. The Empire modify its policies with respect to both slavery and the Republic.

2. The other tribes modify their policies with respect to the Sebiestor.

3 (optional). *Some* Sebiestor recognize that they have been a racist force in Matari civilization, and welcome the opportunity to atone for the sins of the past by setting the foundations for a future Amarr ruled by a Sebiestor sovereign. Now, I can't see how that might accrue to the benefit of *both* Matar and Amarr. Oh, wait, actually I can.

To your first point: I doubt very much that the Empire will listen to one lowly capsuleer, or even 20, or a hundred. Even with thousands behind you, I doubt that you will ever change a single policy, let alone a complete reworking of the mandate behind the Reclaiming.

To your second point: Your initial premise behind your reasoning as to why the Sebiestor alone need reclaimed is flawed. You'll never convince me, and you'll never convince the Republic.

To your "optional"... well, like I said; you're not a prophetess. Get someone in the actual governing body of the Amarr to make a statement endorsing your idea, and you'll be a revolutionary. Not a prophetess. You are not basing your views on some mystical insight, it's based on reasoning and conjecture. It's faulty reasoning and laughable conjecture, but that is my opinion and I understand that you believe that it is accurate.

Quote:
...poodle butt...

...pumpkin...

No amount of flattery, calling me a squash, or complementing my rear (rather disturbing considering your opening statements in this thread) will change my opinion of either you or your half-baked attempt at social engineering.

Now, a little bit of "nursery rhyme" that you might recognize:

Quote:
Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way.

Now, here's the conundrum; if I were to embrace the Faith as you suggest, I would be forced to defeat you. You are clearly mocking God's way. If you attempt to force me to embrace the Faith, I would be forced to defeat you. Those "Nursery Rhymes" are the foundation of the Empire, and despite what you may think, they hold sway over a great number of individuals.

You don't get to have it both ways. You can't insult the foundations of the Empire while at the same time asking others to embrace it. "Things will change one day, all you have to do is accept what I have to say now." "We'll take this much, and no more." I see what you are trying to do, but then it's not all that original. Politicians and religious leaders do it all the time. You are neither from what I can tell; you're a Capsuleer looking for purpose; nothing more, nothing less. No shame in that. I'd also wager there are personal reasons for this wonderfully insightful stream of consciousness, but be honest; do you even believe what you are suggesting?
Gottii
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-04-28 14:55:44 UTC
I count myself lucky that I find this conversation scattered and confusing. I get the idea I should be outraged.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#59 - 2012-04-28 16:07:13 UTC
Gottii wrote:
I count myself lucky that I find this conversation scattered and confusing. I get the idea I should be outraged.


You should be, outraged and highly, highly guarded. Pilot Noh is terrifyingly adept at her craft. She isn't trying to actually effect change right now, she's sowing seeds to be later reaped. And, to be frank, I doubt that her objective is the one she states. It's just a useful vector.

She's frighteningly good at social manipulation, from what little I've seen. And by the look of the transcript, this is all spoken off-the-cuff? I wish I had a tenth of her ability with the spoken word. Of course, I wish I had the ability to string together more than five spoken words at a time, too.

Kudos, Pilot Noh. This is impressive. It's clear that you are playing the Long Game.
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#60 - 2012-04-28 19:57:06 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Kudos, Pilot Noh. This is impressive. It's clear that you are playing the Long Game.

If only she were playing with a full deck, non?