Linux

Banter banter banter. We all have good points. But I think, despite the way we wish it were, the truth is that Linux is not the present as was said. We aren't going to see a Linux client any time soon, not likely even if we threw 2 or 3 million dollars in CCPs face. Even if the Linux community could give the fiscal drive to CCP, it would take at least a year to 3 to get a officially supported Linux client.

So, lets not be unreasonable and focus on smaller wins shall we? In a manner of speaking we need to stand up and be counted, but we can't. the win 3.1 trick doesn't work. So rather than asking for a native/officially supported Linux client, lets focus our petitioning on what we can accomplish. we need to ask CCP and the devs for a way to mark that we use Linux. Whether it is an in game toggle or a account setting where we can check a box. It is certainly within CCP's capacity to accomplish in relatively short order and is a start for us Linux users.

This.
I'm seeing all of these people who use a free/libre operating system designed to be tweaked, customized, and whatnot, and they contribute little to nothing back to the FOSS community, and they demand that a company already struggling to make it in this economy completely rewrite their main product to run on a platform that makes up only 2% of the entire desktop market.

The developers LOVE the linux OS, they have no problem tweaking their systems to get their game running on it, and they accept that their management team isn't going to pay them to build an OpenGL client.

The comments about Python are irrelevant, they contribute code and money upstream so they do more for those OSS projects than their users do.

I am a software developer. I write code for the Android Open Source Project, apps on that platform, and the linux kernel itself for the Arch project. I use a linux distro in 95% of my work, and I still totally agree with the decision not to build a native linux client. It doesn't make fiscal sense.

Also, the wine configuration is not that hard to follow, and the latest link
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=25544
describes which specific configurations. And google can source the rest.

What we need, is for people to contribute to some sort of project to make pulling in the libraries needed and whatnot much easier, since it seems most of the people here are sick of struggling with that. Possibly create a PlayOnLinux script?

****This is the end of the relevance of the post****



Hmm...this is right and wrong.
1) 32 bit binaries in x64 windows--this statement was completely wrong. x64 Windows does not emulate the cpu instruction set for a 32-bit processor; today's cpu's can run either code set natively, translated at the binary level. I think you're referring to the multiarch libraries, that allow the 32-bit applications to be run "natively" on a 64 bit machine.

2) Wine Is Not an Emulator--this means it's not like dosbox, translating code build for a different architecture entirely (ie an N64). Wine is an implementation of a libraries interpretation layer that, for all intents and purposes, allows Windows libraries and binaries to function on a Linux/BSD system.

3) A native application is merely an application that is compiled against/uses binary libraries on the system. So, my C++ hello world application will compile on a Windows machine using VS2010 and a linux machine with GCC, but won't function on the other system due to byte-level incompatibility (and I'll spare you the kernel explanation here).

4) Eve's game code was not compiled with GCC. It is compiled with a Microsoft compiler, and the python pieces are not compiled (it's an interpreted, or "emulated" language).

5) DX libraries are binary-compatible with Windows NT-based systems only. Nebu Retski is right, the source code of EVE O cannot be compiled on a linux distribution because it compiles against the DirectX libraries among several other pieces from the API, which aren't compiled on linux. His statement about Cedega is almost correct--Cedega just tells Wine to translate the function calls meant for the NT kernel to a format readable by the linux kernel.

So, Whitehound, your post was kind of irrelevant until the last line.
^^ this exactly. And CCP's management will not allow the developers to make a binary-compatible client for the Linux platform.

I would love to see Linux client. EVE had linux client many years ago but they switch to DX. But I don't mind. I use Windows for games and laptop with Ubuntu for work (programmer). But it would be nice to log into the game from laptop.

OR they could throw us API for stuff like mail exchange, skill queue and stuff like that. This way I could manage my character from the browser to some point just like I get notifications from my Chrome extension I build for myself.

but that's just mode changing in the dynamic library loader ... a 32bit app cannot load a 64bit library and vice versa, so NO translation is needed. you need a complete 32bit environment for an 32bit application to run on 64 bit OS. Mythas is correct on that part.

If EVE had a Linux Client, I would drop windows save for the occasional Steam Game

The whole point of this discussion is the need for speed. CCP mentioned some time ago that parts of their client are written in C++ and others in Python. They say that it is good enough and only the DirectX stuff which is written in C++ iirc. However, seeing how they improved text rendering recently would a client written entirely in C/C++ (and properly optimized by a compiler) likely give a noticeable speed boost over the current Python based code. When I turn off the UI with CTRL-F9 then my frame rate goes up from 40-50 fp/s to a solid 60 fp/s. This is quite a bump. I am pretty sure that this is because of the Python code doing UI stuff. Only CCP will really know why this is.

But what is the point of saying this?! You still will need Windows to run the C++ programs, too. You cannot run them without an operating system. WINE Is Not an Emulator... It is a binary loader and linker just like you have under Windows and Linux. Linux has got an ELF and a.out loader in kernel space. WINE is the same thing only does it run in user space and it loads Windows binaries.

Well they _had_ some kind of Linux client earlier on, and it was also based on WINE if I remember correctly. Let me tell you this: It sucked big time. Very soon everyone was using the Windows version with their own WINE. What we need is not a 'native' version, but for CCP to align some more with WINE to make things more playable. For this they need to:
- Drop DIrectX and start using OpenGL (as they did before if I remember correctly)
- Give some pointers to the WINE development on how they use certain stuff and submit some code to improve it.
- Do some compatibility testing

Perhaps this is a lot to ask, but perhaps not, I can't judge on that. But it also seems not to be an outreageous request from our side to ask for some more thought when it comes to the Linux players.
As a side note: For me, at this moment, EVE on WINE works quite good. It could use a speed bump, but for the most part, this game is very playable. At least, to my standards, which may be altogether too low, but ok ;-)

Perhaps if we all do as I do we can convince CCP to put some serious weight behind "Official" linux support.

about once a year, I re-up an account and see if I can get it to run in linux. If I can, I renew ALL my accounts and purchase several plex's to sell on a regular basis (about 75 - 100 bucks a month in total).

When they make a release or "Patch" that breaks the client on wine, I cancel my subscriptions and stop buying products from CCP. Ultimately taking money out of their pocket. I make my voice heard by NOT contributing to a company that HAS made the choice to NOT support my operating system.

In the end, this is the ONLY way CCP will consider this seriously. They are a for profit company and unless they start seeing their revenue drop due to a lack of support for a segment of the community, they will continue to ignore us and assume that we are hopelessly hooked on their product and that we are willing to go to almost any length to get our "EVE" fix.

So either take the proverbial needle out or accept the fact that CCP is going to make you their .......... well you get the point.

Areale

I would just like to see the devs work a little closer with the wine devs. Then when a problem does arise the wine group could help the CCP devs solve the problem quicler.