Warfare & Tactics

If there is a problem, it's more to do with warfare links than the Tengu.

So on Youtube, I saw this video with this really overpowered ship... I think it's called the Velator? ...and it killed these other ships, and I totally think it should get nerfed based on this one video!

Properly fit 100mn Tengus tend to cost upwards of 2b. I'm sorry you expect to kill it with your Drake.

What he's showing you is a bit of a fairytale. It's all snippets of action taken at different times and it's shows lots of "heroic" kills of t1 cruisers and battlecruisers and some damned good piloting.

What he doesn't show you is the ship that he had up his sleeve because he wants you to think that it was all solo action, but it wasn't. There were two in fleet and the other ship was likely a command Loki. Two pimp fit T3's versus some T1 cruisers and Battlecruisers makes for lots of explosions. Looks good for Youtube.

What he also isn't showing you is how many fights he had that ended in stalemates or fights where he had to run after killing the little stuff.

He's also not showing you this: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12117406

Yes, that's his Tengu, killed by a few BC's and various small stuff.

So yeah. the Tengu is a powerful ship and that pilot is pretty darned good with it, but it's far from a "win machine".

T-

I love how the OP cries that tengu's are OP, and the FW community is like na we kill lots of them

Tengu's really aren't the problem.

For instance,

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15300334

Tengu warps in on top of our moa/gila, gila has no webs, moa has one web. However, the gila had neuts. It began to melt and our dramiel came in to get a 2nd web just incase. It should have had a 2nd t2 ancil rig instead of the missile rig for a 2nd nano but meh. Of course I don't think this tengu was boosted. One tech 1 cruiser and one faction cruiser plus a dramiel, for a total of 1 small neut, 1 medium neut, and two webs were enough to take it down.


Here's another tengu, this one had a much better fit and more isk thrown into it, but we used 100mn tengu to kill a 100mn tengu. The victim had falcon and naga to assist him. This tengu was not boosted either.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15273768


There isn't really a problem with tengus, I think boosters are an issue and should be limited to to being on the same grid, but that's a different discussion. Turning radius on tengu is really big, whoever he is primarying can just burn in the opposite direction once their tank starts to fail, forcing the tengu to either continue burning in the same direction, or be forced to turn around (and lose speed so a gangmate can web him) otherwise they lose out on a kill. People think blobbing and not piloting are the way forward nowdays and would rather scream nerf rather than bring a counter setup or use tactis

There is one thing about this discussion that makes it... funny'ish. Post after post, we see (at least in a clear majority) how people - through empirical facts, theorycrafting and what not - try to 'proove' that the Tengu isn't OP and what's 'really' wrong/right/whatever.

What people do 'wrong' in here (incl. OP) is trying to measure inbalance and a disproprotionally skewed demand for a certain ship by it's actual performance. From a game perspective - something rather irrelevant.

Let's put it this way: In fact, the Tengu is easily beaten by two Punishers (one tackles and one... oh well, one tackles). It sometimes self-combust on undocking - destroying it or severely damaging it, for some strange and yet unexplained reason. Price in Jita is about 20b, which seems a bit much for a ship that you risk losing on undock, or being on the red, flashy side of two T1 frigs. Right? Right?

Considering the above being true. At the same time, it is clear that long time vets, (some literally harboring an EVE-life long hate toward missiles), as well as a disproportionally large part of newer/young players in the middle of deciding on race/career/training, decide they really need to train into Tengu to be competitive.

Which of the two arguments above mattters to the game and the great diversity (in a relative sense) CCP has accomplished with EVE? That the Tengu really isn't OP - I SWEAR - my Punisher have 16 KMs solo on Tengus (actually only 13 'true' kills, 3 were into structure from the undocking 'discomfort') - or that a disproportionally large part of the community (especially thinking here of new players who ask "WAT IS GOD SHIP??+") that does indeed populate those skill point branches as we type this?

To me, the second argument beats the first - no contest, even if I made very clear that Tengu is a horrible ship. I am concerned with every jack to diversity because it brings EVE closer to a lot of other MMOs minimizing the differences which are the reasons I do play EVE, and not... one of the other.

Do I want Tengu nerfed? It is not up to me. It doesn't really concern me whether it outputs 600dps at 100km or 5000dps and 1000km because I am not competing for turf or KMs with them atm. However - there is something about the Tengu (regardless of whatever dozens of "proof" of non-OPness listed in here) that is extremely attractive and that DOES influence the coolness of EVE: that there is no "legendary sword". That concerns me.

In practice: Regardless of figures and proof, the aim should be that no ship has such a clear advantage when it comes to attracting players that in the end, a disproportional part of the playerbase fly it. If this is done by nerfing the Tengu, or buffing the other T3s slightly - whatever. Hopefully CCP does something before painting themselves too far into the corner.

You never hear people say "Legion is the best t3" or "Proteus is the best t3". You might occasionally hear people say that the Loki is the best, but by far if you ask people which t3 is the best, they'll tell you it's the Tengu.

I didn't give in to the hype, and so being an Amarr player who trains primarily Amarr ships I went for the Legion. And while yeah the Legion is a nice ship, it doesn't have the DPS, the tank, or the range of the Tengu.

Who's willing to bet the OP was one of the people who got floored by the Tengu in that video...

You shouldn't just nerf ships because they beat you. Don't get mad, get even.

Nerfing off-grid boosters would solve a lot of this booster-alt sillyness. It made dual-boxing 'solo' fighting pretty much the norm.

Best Eve vid I've seen in ages.
Great music, and 1(player, if not ship) vs many which is always a great subject.

Mad props to this boppo guy for the vid ;)