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Is this Fanfest public behavior actually okay? Are there any limits?
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Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#21 - 2012-03-25 16:49:18 UTC
You can always petition it under ToS 1:

You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.

ToS 16:
You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.

ToU:
I Submit any Content, which is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, libelous or defamatory, encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal offense or give rise to civil liabilities, or is unlawful in any other way.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#22 - 2012-03-25 16:51:40 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
See the thread Fanfest Alliance Panel Disgusting.

See in particular post #68, in which someone's in game eve mail is posted to the forums.

If this is what these people actually did and said at the panel, this is so totally disgusting and sadistic that it can't be accepted.

I don't care about what happens in the game, since I can't do anything about it.

Holding someone up to PUBLIC ridicule in real life and following it up by encouraging people to continue this behavior on the forums, by posting the guy's eve mail to the forums, is not acceptable behavior by a human being.

You should read the thread if you want background. The quick version is that this person was apparently very rich in the tears that these plays love so much. He is referred to as depressed and suicidal. If the thread is accurate, our CSM chair encouraged people to get in touch with this guy and harass him further and gave out his name at the panel. Someone followed this up by posting one of the guy's eve mails to the forums.

These are major eve players actually encouraging people to cause a play psychological harm, and in a PUBLIC context outside the game. This cannot be accepted.


So praying to God to help him in a game of pretend spaceships is all well and normal, but laughing at someone for being so completely unhinged to PRAY TO GOD for help in internet spaceships is terrible?

Guess I'm a terrible person.

Anyone who takes a game so seriously they are crying and praying to deities in real life deserves to be laughed at. It is also for their own good, since this is NOT ******* NORMAL and they need to get help.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

gfldex
#23 - 2012-03-25 16:52:32 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
PUBLIC ridicule in real life [...] eve mail to the forums


There is your contradiction. Kids have to be protected from bullies in school because they are force to go to this dreadful place by law. Folk have to be protected from mobbing in the office because they are forced by society to go to this dreadful place. Nobody is forced to play EVE. And if you send an eve mail to a goon that can be used against you, you deserve to be taught a lesson.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Romar Agent
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-03-25 16:54:14 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
deal with it~



Is that all the great Mittani could come up with?


Such a let down, would have expected more. I know, 'deal with it'.

Come on, he is chair of the CSM, responsible for all players in New Eden...

Oh, wait a minute...
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#25 - 2012-03-25 16:54:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
suicide ganking and nonconsensual PvP in the client itself.
You mean the stuff CCP are taking action against apparently ?
No, you must be thinking of something quite different.

CCP is further codifying ganking and nonconsensual PvP, because it's a core part of the game. Hell, they're making it an explicit part of the marketing campaign now. You might have missed it but in the public address to the world about what CCP does, the goon's shenanigans were singled out as “this is EVE — it is awesome”. So yeah… no. They're not taking action against that in any way whatsoever.

…much like how people being drunk and partying is codified into the Fanfest, and they're not going to take action against that either.



No tip I don't follow the 'publicity circus' of fanfest , just with the number of pirate tears round here I assumed things might be changing for the better.. see how it pans out hey

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#26 - 2012-03-25 16:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Professor Alphane wrote:
Forums hosts are considered 'publishing companies' under most countries laws , the same rules would apply as a public letter published in a newspaper.

Also this is one of the main reasons moderation is compulsory as publishing obsence images or selling of illegal goods/services are not looked upon kindly.


The thing that stops any of these laws applying, ever, is that they are laughing at and posting mails from a *virtual character.* A virtual character said victimized person can simply disassociate from if he's too thin skinned.

Nowhere in any law does it say you can't make up a name for someone and then publish bad things about said made up name.

Also there is the fact everything was factually accurate and quoted so any semblance of libel is moot.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#27 - 2012-03-25 16:59:48 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
Forums hosts are considered 'publishing companies' under most countries laws , the same rules would apply as a public letter published in a newspaper.

Also this is one of the main reasons moderation is compulsory as publishing obsence images or selling of illegal goods/services are not looked upon kindly.


The thing that stops any of these laws applying, ever, .


Err yes man whatever you say

Go post some kiddie pics somewhere when the law kick your door down just tell em it wasn't you it was your Avatar Roll

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#28 - 2012-03-25 17:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
Bullying in any form is unacceptable, and this person should be encouraged to take the offical line via CCP rules. If it was limited to in-game, then "deal with it" would apply. Soon as it starts to be outside of game, then we're talking alot more serious. Plenty of real-life examples of people driven to suicide because of bullying, both in places like schools, as well as through the internet likes games and such. Eve should be a game that everyone can enjoy free from actual real-life harrassment. No different to racism imo, which would not be tolerated, but along the same lines.

Unfortunately, eve is full of dicks. Probably its greatest failing.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Kara Roideater
#29 - 2012-03-25 17:08:15 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

The thing that stops any of these laws applying, ever, is that they are laughing at and posting mails from a *virtual character.* A virtual character said victimized person can simply disassociate from if he's too thin skinned.

Nowhere in any law does it say you can't make up a name for someone and then publish bad things about said made up name.



You're tripping over your own logical contortions here. If the name is 'for someone', then things said about that made up name are still about the same someone. If I punch someone I call '*****' in the face, I didn't punch anyone else than the underlying person just because I call them '*****', even if they also choose to call themselves that.

Personally, IF such behaviour happened I think, as a human, that it is lamentable, as is the attitude advanced in a few posts that mocking the psychologically unstable is a good thing to do as it will lead them to seek help (sure, that's how it works!). However, I'm less sure about how such lamentable behaviour should be understood within the context of a game, especially when no one has suggested that the unstable individual was role-playing that instability but allowing, at the same time, that responses to said instability from others may have been 'in role' (at least arguably). T'is murky to say the least.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#30 - 2012-03-25 17:10:34 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:

Unfortunately, eve is full of dicks. Probably its greatest failing.


No the fact CCP sucks them is the problem.... Twisted

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-03-25 17:11:25 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
You can always petition it under ToS 1:


Speaking of petitions, how did yours go after the Recruitment MOTD scandal?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-03-25 17:13:31 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
These are major eve players actually encouraging people to cause a play psychological harm, and in a PUBLIC context outside the game. This cannot be accepted.


Sure it can. Especially if it's funny and it is hilarious that anybody would threaten suicide over a video game.

Anybody who does that deserves to be mocked.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-03-25 17:15:48 UTC
oh no griefers on eve and drunk peeps at fanfest. Tbh if u dont want to be griefed dont make urself a target or unplug? Dont like seeing drunk peeps at fanfest DONT WATCH?
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#34 - 2012-03-25 17:20:43 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
These are major eve players actually encouraging people to cause a play psychological harm, and in a PUBLIC context outside the game. This cannot be accepted.


Sure it can. Especially if it's funny and it is hilarious that anybody would threaten suicide over a video game.

Anybody who does that deserves to be mocked.


By the same token then, its more than allowed for the bullied person to go find his bullies in the real world and kick the **** outta them? If one is allowed, then so is the other.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-03-25 17:25:03 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:

These are major eve players actually encouraging people to cause a play psychological harm, and in a PUBLIC context outside the game. This cannot be accepted.


Are they breaking any laws? If so, contact the authorities.
If not, are they breaking any portion of the ToS, EULA, or ToU? If so, file a petition
If not then complaining about it on the forums is going to do you little - if any - good.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#36 - 2012-03-25 17:27:10 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
See the thread Fanfest Alliance Panel Disgusting.

See in particular post #68, in which someone's in game eve mail is posted to the forums.

If this is what these people actually did and said at the panel, this is so totally disgusting and sadistic that it can't be accepted.

I don't care about what happens in the game, since I can't do anything about it.

Holding someone up to PUBLIC ridicule in real life and following it up by encouraging people to continue this behavior on the forums, by posting the guy's eve mail to the forums, is not acceptable behavior by a human being.

You should read the thread if you want background. The quick version is that this person was apparently very rich in the tears that these plays love so much. He is referred to as depressed and suicidal. If the thread is accurate, our CSM chair encouraged people to get in touch with this guy and harass him further and gave out his name at the panel. Someone followed this up by posting one of the guy's eve mails to the forums.

These are major eve players actually encouraging people to cause a play psychological harm, and in a PUBLIC context outside the game. This cannot be accepted.


deal with it~


Wow you represent me ? F**k. Oh well teaches me to vote next time.

Tal


Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-03-25 17:27:50 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
These are major eve players actually encouraging people to cause a play psychological harm, and in a PUBLIC context outside the game. This cannot be accepted.


Sure it can. Especially if it's funny and it is hilarious that anybody would threaten suicide over a video game.

Anybody who does that deserves to be mocked.


By the same token then, its more than allowed for the bullied person to go find his bullies in the real world and kick the **** outta them? If one is allowed, then so is the other.


Do you realize how many people have threatened to punch goons at fanfest? It's almost a meme at this point.

But to address you point, no that would not be okay. Real life violence is actually a crime. Also, advocating for RL violence is a bannable offense in Eve Online.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-03-25 17:28:44 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Wow you represent me ? F**k. Oh well teaches me to vote next time.


Pubbies say this every year and next year you won't vote either.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#39 - 2012-03-25 17:29:48 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
Forums hosts are considered 'publishing companies' under most countries laws , the same rules would apply as a public letter published in a newspaper.

Also this is one of the main reasons moderation is compulsory as publishing obsence images or selling of illegal goods/services are not looked upon kindly.


The thing that stops any of these laws applying, ever, .


Err yes man whatever you say

Go post some kiddie pics somewhere when the law kick your door down just tell em it wasn't you it was your Avatar Roll


Hey, you don't get it man. That's OK, let me explain again.

Mittens is insulting and deriding a character. In no manner can you, as a third party, discover the real identity of that person. By definition, any attacks are directed at no person in particular.

See also: why stealing ISK is not criminal behaviour punishable by real world laws.

At best, you have to accept that they ARE personal attacks but are published without mentioning the name, which is also perfectly acceptable.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#40 - 2012-03-25 17:32:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Kara Roideater wrote:

You're tripping over your own logical contortions here. If the name is 'for someone', then things said about that made up name are still about the same someone.


Only in the event of me making it clear that by saying "Thom Fribblebottom" I was directly inferring to POTUS. Then, when I said "lets go kill Thom Fribblebottom" I would be in the ****.

If I just make a post about Thom Fribblebottom, how he is bad, stupid and I want him to die, there is literally nothing anyone can do about it since THE PERSON IN QUESTION does not exist.

You know the difference between avatars and people, yeah?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,