Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ganking has never been an exploit. It is a perfectly legitimate way to... convolutedly destroy your ship.

And when has CCP ever said that HS should be safe and care free?

Also, if they wanted to stop all ganking, it would be easy. Set it up so that it is impossible to shoot a player unless aggression has been given. No more ganking.


Anyway, the OP is whining over nothing, as the changes that will end up being added will not make ganking significantly any harder. Unless Concord comes the second aggression occurs (which would be downright moronic), things will stay the way they are.

Obviously your milage may vary , I just see it as poor development and inability to achieve your aims

I am well aware that 'Crimewatch' doesn't hit gankers as hard as methods of high-sec aggression that require 'trickery', like baiting a LVL 4 Mission runner into losing his pimped ISK printing machine.

But CCP is planning a major rework of mechanics related to 'criminal' activity, its important to have some good 'pro-ganker' ideas on the table as well. This is an effort to collect some of them in one place....rather than scattered throughout other ganker vs carebear flamefests.

As far as 'Risk' for suicide gankers is concerned:

Unfortunately, Concord doesn't really allow for a great deal of 'risk'. We know that we are going to lose our ships at the outset, and build them accordingly. I might 'risk' more on ganking ships if I knew there was a chance of survival.

Beyond 'ship loss' however, there is a great deal of uncertainty involved. Ganks fail all the time.

-You may fail to kill the target, and get a big 'lol' in local, and lose the ship anyway.
-The loot you are attempting to steal fails to drop, which costs you ISK and time.
-The loot you are attempting to steal is stolen by someone else, which costs you ISK, time and sucks as well.
-Your -10 ganking alt (and POD!) can be jammed, scrammed, neuted or popped by any bystander, at any point in the process.

And of course, naturally, we generally only punish the carebears that are guilty of gross negligence.
-Failing to tank a 250M Exhumer.
-Hauling hundreds of millions or billions in a T1 Industrial.....AFK.

Most of the carebears, despite posting garbage on here, are probably bright enough to avoid being ganked, simply because they bother to read these forums and (possibly) apply what they learn here to their game.

Here is the important bit though:
I've killed hundreds of Exhumers. You know what I've noticed about my favorite icebelt hunting grounds?

Miners are FEWER.....but those left ARE LEARNING TO TANK! Its amazing. As a result - have to leave many of them alone, as I don't have sufficient firepower to take them solo. Tornado is good, but can't do everything.

Further, they are ORGANIZING. Doing everything they can to make my life more difficult, warn the 'non-botting' Exhumers in local, and impede my attacks and looting. And I say, good for them!

Its exactly what EVE is about, even in highsec. I'll still smack and local and harvest as many bots as I can, but it keeps me interested because they make it challenging...! Worst thing CCP could do, is just step in and let them all go back to tanking with Cap Recharger II's and mining AFK.

Then I guess Suicide Gankers wont have any complaints about adapting to a situation where they might be at least be equally challenged for their behaviour? Why should they be removed from the adaptation and evolution equation or risk vs reward considerations. You want to prescribe to others how to play yet when the shoe is on the other foot its a complete injustice.

I think the stock answer or appropriate responce in these situations "HTFU" or "Adapt or Die"?

And who the hell of an ******* you think you are to say how high sec safety or threat level should be?-gime a break with that old rabble

4th one is done by those safetys they mentioned in crimewatch; When you fly with safetys off, you are not asked anything about "are you sure".

They might make it more challenging to you, but you don't really make it anymore challenging to them, not in a real sense anyway. You just make mining upgrades obsolete as they have to use those spaces to tank with and you make it less productive for them. So you actually make a boring task even more boring (I find mining boring, I know some people don't).

For most you add about as much excitement as an annoying insect would.

You seem to have the most well thought out 'opposition' posts here, and its appreciated, even if the purpose of this thread is fishing for good ideas.

Gankers and ninjas have done nothing BUT adapt to changing situations.

-At one time, 'ninja salvaging' was pretty good ISK by itself. Introduction of Noctis (crashing salvage prices) ended it.
So we embraced Orcas and developed a number of tactics/fits which allowed us to bait and harvest aggressive LVL 4 Mission runners. A number of nerfs to the Orca have it on life support, and 'safeties' will probably end it for good.

Suicide gankers have adapted to changes as well.
-2008 Concord buffs severely restricted our options and target profiles, fits were changed to compensate for a halving of Concord Response time, and nerfs to drone mechanics.

-Increased sec-status penalties led to training -10 alts and new Orca tactics for some - and rapid sec-status farming techinques for others. (like target painting NPCs while baiting mission runners.....)

-Projectile (especially arty) revamp re-introduced the 'volley' kill, and incidentally improved our fortunes as the Tempest once again sailed the skies in large numbers. Subsequent release of the Tornado, Blaster Buffs and Dessie Buffs have all provided more tools, though I would argue that those benefits were 'incidental' to ganker use, not intended for us.
After all, artillery was BAD before the projectile update, and anyone casually reading the forums in the last 2 years has probably seen threadnaught after threadnaught about Hybrids and/or Dessies needing an update.

-Insurance removal forced a NEW analysis of costs vs benefits of various fits, as it significantly increased the threshold to make a gank 'profitable'. (Not everyone can afford to gank just for tears......some of us need income too.)
Tactics such as Herr Wilkus's "Tornado Boomerang", and rapid unfitting of mods into Orcas were developed specifically to adapt to the new 'insurance-less' reality, and bring down the marginal cost of ganking as far as possible. (And what are we met with? Carebear crying, locked threads and screams of 'exploit!')

After all, this isn't Vegas. Turning a profit requires discipline and knowing how much your efforts are costing you. We aren't the Goons, we don't get our ships replaced for free.

-Knowing instantly, the EHP/resists of typical tanks vs available firepower.
-Snap judgement of typical cargo values.
-and the ability to execute a simultaneous attack, as you often have to coordinate with others to cover all the bases.

Anyway, gankers/griefers are inherently a very adaptable bunch.
Very much a stretch to compare them to miners and carebears that already have the tools of their survival at their disposal. But die because they fail to use them.

CCP will likely know the checks and balances here. There is significant evidence previously provided by players to suggest how impacting and profitable Suicide ganking can be, and especially moreseo after crucible.

I'm more concerned about fixing broken systems, adding gameplay and generally trying to make EvE more fun and interesting in the process. My concerns are not to eradicate or detract from the actual Suicide ganking capabilities themselves, So:

For PvP and like to encourage more of it?

Want to validate a potential Career path in EvE with new income potential that is ideally designed as simply a transferance of ISK from one pilot to another?

Actually like situations where ships shoot back and "really" improve your KB resume?

You agree that pilots should adapt to challenging situations in EvE where acceptance of risk is an everyday seperator of those getting ahead on the curve?

Or simply want to make EvE less boring?

Support: Bounty Hunting for CSM7.

If anything the added thrill from this challenge I would hope to seperate the chaff from the wheat in the Sucide Ganking profession which in principal may remove competition. However, I'm not naive to think it will really help to reduce levels of the activity, only provide a missing responce or retaliation to a criminal activity that is ineffectual in the current bounty hunter mechanics.

EVE is a PVP based game. Its economy relies upon the destruction of player created assets. Even if you're a miner, you're still participating in/fueling PVP in a way.

I suppose you think that CCP doesn't want its game to be harsh?