Out of Pod Experience

I guess you didn't actually read what I posted, /shrugs. I will return the favour by not reading any more of your enthusiastic support of child murderers. Which is as it should be, I have no common ground for discussion with people that make me feel physically sick.

Neither do I wish to waste my time arguing with the type of people that attempt to justify or excuse the killing of innocent people.

Like I said you didn't bother to read my post, I admitted that I got the idea that the victim knew he had a gun from your post. You posted "Normal people don't run toward an armed assailant" so I assumed that you had read somewhere that the kid knew he was armed. Go and re-read post 60, posted hours ago.

Your failure to read the post was obvious when you insist I link a source after I already admitted where it came from. The thing is whether the murdered kid knew he was armed or not is irrelevant, the vigilante was still the cause of any confrontation because his intent was made clear by his refusal to follow police instructions. The kid is also still dead, whether he was frightened by the gun or whether he got into a fight with someone that was harassing him.

The ironic thing about this is that the law that is protecting the murderer should have protected Martins right to defend himself. If I am reading the state law right it basically says that "anyone acting lawfully in a place they are legally entitled to be present at may use force to defend themselves if threatened or attacked" and the stand your ground part of the law meant that he did not have to run away or retreat away from Zimmerman.

Yet the law is twisted around to protect the child murdering vigilante.

I'm going to allow for the possibility that we were talking past each other because you started replying to my post to Kattshiro before I submitted my edit asking him the same question. There's a 5 minute gap between my edit asking that and your reply. So, let's agree that there's been some confusion, and that as of now there's simply no one saying Martin knew Zimmerman was armed.

I'm just going to clear up a few things based on what I've read and witness accounts.

* The blonde witness with the short hair didn't see anything and contradicts herself. To quote: "The cries stopped as soon as the gun went off so I know it was the little boy." Note the wording. She didn't see Martin get shot. She is assuming Martin was crying for help because the cries for help stopped after the gunshot. But you could just as well assume Zimmerman stopped crying for help because his attacker was incapacitated. Later in the interview she says "I know this was not self defense - there was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling." But she clearly didn't see the altercation. She just admitted she based her opinion on what she heard.

* A witness who actually did see the moments leading up to the gunshot says Zimmerman was on his back yelling for help and that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him.

* The father initially told police that the cries for help on the 911 recording were not his son. He changed his story after.

* It's reported that Zimmerman's wounds were consistent with Zimmerman's account of being hit from behind and the eye witness's and Zimmerman's claim that Martin got on top of him and started beating him.

There's no way you get a murder charge given those circumstances. I don't even think they get voluntary manslaughter, honestly. Before you even get to a court where you have to prove it, the police have to assert in writing that the facts warrant the charge. And assume if you get that far it makes it past the grand jury and actually ends up in court. Unless some damning new evidence against Zimmerman shows up, there's no way he gets convicted on that. Murder and homicide aren't the same thing. A body with a hole in it just means a homicide probably happened. There's a looooong way from that to any degree of murder.

And a nitpick, because it annoys me when people say he was told by an officer to stop pursuit. A police dispatcher is not an officer, and if that was a dispatcher on the phone then Zimmerman wasn't told by an officer not to follow Martin. Dispatchers have no civil authority - they can't tell you what not to do. It's possible all the reports I've read are wrong and they have a deputy answering the phone but that doesn't seem likely. Zimmerman still shouldn't have given pursuit, but by the sound of the recording he only did so for 20 seconds after being told not to, then said Martin had run off.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/24/republican-leaders-express-sympathy-support-stand-your-ground/?test=latestnews

The Florida state rep and Zimmerman's attorney both state "stand your ground" does not apply in the case of Zimmerman, based on the evidence presented. However, if it turns out that, say, Zimmerman had been walking back to his car and for some reason Trayvon attacked Zimmerman when he was no longer following him, then the law would take effect, on the basis that Trayvon initiated the confrontation after Zimmerman walked away.

The "long way" is the fact that:

1) Zimmerman had no justification at all for being there in the first place. He aggressively pursued someone who was walking away from him, armed and ready for a fight.

2) Zimmerman's own words reveal his attitude: he openly admitted that he was tired of "them getting away". This is clear intent to use (illegal) force to prevent Martin from escaping.


Like I said, this is no different than if I shot you in "self defense" while breaking into your house.




You're right, they could not give him a legally binding order to stop the pursuit, but it does completely destroy any claim that Zimmerman had a legitimate reason for doing anything other than walking away and ignoring Martin. There was no credible threat of violence (if there had been, the 911 call would have mentioned it), and there was no request from any legitimate authority to go investigate the situation.

You are learning, grasshopper.

He claims that he was.

Unfortunately, his claim that he was peacefully returning to his truck contradicts his openly stated intent to confront Martin and prevent him from escaping. Believing Zimmerman's story requires that either:

1) He changed his mind about following Martin and returned to his truck, and Martin changed his mind about leaving, followed him back to the truck (without Zimmerman noticing him), and attacked him from behind for no apparent reason.

or

2) He confronted Martin without any illegal use of force, was satisfied with his story, and left peacefully, at which point Martin followed him back and attacked him for no apparent reason.

Neither of these scenarios make any sense, so the obvious conclusion is that Zimmerman is probably lying about where the fight happened.



They shouldn't be asked that way. Unfortunately the local police department seems to be either unbelievably incompetent, or actively working to protect Zimmerman (whether out of racism, or simple reluctance to admit their mistake).



The premeditation is his intent to use illegal force against Martin in the first place. Just like it would be murder if I shot you in "self defense" while breaking into your house.

Once again you spew yet nothing you knew, about me, what I do. I practice what I preach, and have trained over 1000 people in the use of small arms ranging from close quarters combat to long distance and have been involved indirectly with websites and the efforts of others to do likewise. I have already have investigators try to dig up dirt on me to "nail me on something" to stop me (unfortunately I am a bit of a monk in RL and have no "dirt").

I suppose I should fear for my life, sit down, and shut up. But that's not what I am all about, and cannot, but I always lacked the ability to be a coward. If I ran from a bully in my youth, it's because being outmatched was a bad tactical decision.

In your third point you sided with me. You appear to be on the edge of understanding the real cost of war, which is more about economics than who has a bigger gun or more of them. My country will put a million dollar missile in a 40 dollar tent and call that victory, and the missile was paid for with money printed from nothing, devaluing the money supply and causing inflation. Economics is the most powerful weapon on earth, having already taken out empires previously thought to be invincible. Everybody knows that yeah, the M1A is not going to stop a battalion, but fielding one just to stop a few guys with a months salary's worth of equipment is already a major loss to the superior force.

You are very entertaining in your delusions. I could write a book about you, and will, of sorts, on some of the websites I author, as a demonstration of what I call "the peasant mindset". Like a peasant from the feudal days, who would see the knight on the shire horse, armored and trained, and be in awe of the knight - while never knowing that the oats grown in their lords' fields is what that knights horse (and hence the knight because that armor was heavy) depended on, and those crops depended on the peasants to work those fields. They were therefore a cowed people who labored daily to maintain the system that enslaved them. Color does figure into what this thread is all about and I must admit that while there is much said about whites enslaving blacks, whites enslave each other not with chains but with systems, but the slaves don't have any idea they are slaves and support the system.

Now today, you see the gunships, the men with kevlar, training, and machine guns, and have the same response. You are cowed. It's kind of sad really but, if you should support things the way they are, you at least, when someone thrusts a uniform and a weapon at you with instructions along the lines of "you want things this way? You do it!", you won't be in a big hurry to go out into the field and probably won't be effective at it.

So keep going. I am taking notes.

BTW, I just realized that points 1 and 2 contradict each other and earn you some tard points. Makes me feel foolish for wasting more time on you, but the reward is still worth the effort.