EVE General Discussion

Not disagreeing with anything that you've said, but I think the "consequences" bit is important. It's supposed to be war and this is supposed to be a sandbox. Therefore it absolutely makes sense that there will be real territory gains and losses.

This however, shouldn't make the PVP less fun, or more of a PITA. Just needs inventive ideas.

Woah... there are people who like station games?!

I left 0.0 for a reason. I don't want FW to be like 0.0, I want FW (and lowsec) to be more like Fight Club. Come on, CCP...

Welcome to a world with consequences. EVE. You may not like it, but then you can just go be a neutral pirate. If that's not what you want, then go join red versus blue.

I have said this repeatedly - Faction warfare should be for noobs learning to PVP and learning to do things together - not for EVE Vets. If that means that FW has to shrink before it grows so be it.




You mean, they have to fight over the **** that is this war? Massive fights are **** in low sec anyways because there's no warp bubbles. You never kill enough people because the 30 people just warp out because you can't spread points so well. It doesn't work because it's hard to enforce the fight.


All I'm hearing is "My game is changing, I can't play the game the only way I know how! I don't want to do stuff except buy PLEX, sell PLEX and Make ISK for Ship PVP!!"

You used to be an FW Fleet Commander, but I hardly see you guys doing much anymore.

Amarr Militia is sitting in Auga, Minmatar militia is sitting in Huola. It's like ridiculously stupid that you've switched your areas of operations. And just highlights the stupidity of this current system.

We get it. You don't care about FW Plex, Sovereignty, you don't care about Consequences, you don't like 0.0.

What do you want? You want to PVP, you want ships to escalate, in a stupid "i have a bigger epeen" methodology, that basically leads to an hour wait for a fleet fight to actually happen. It leads to fleet commanders organizing and planning FW fights because they can't actually ARRANGE a fight because it IS SO EASY to escalate, since there's nothing to fight over.

You're addicted to the broken system. It's like being addicted to Communism. IT DOESN'T WORK. It's an illness and has to be cut out.

They do need to be positive otherwise people will leave. It's not difficult to understand.

To touch on the illness issue....


The players that used to care about FW left because there were no consequences. It's deteriorated to the point that ONLY "Fight Clubbers" are in FW.

And those fight clubbers will do anything to protect their little fight club. You really think that CCP built all that old stuff, even if it was total crap - for you to have a fight club? They have a full feature with "Occupancy", "plexes", "Missions" for a fight club? I don't like any of that stuff, I think it's total rubbish - but if you want a Fight Club, GO MAKE ONE like Red Versus Blue.

But, FW isn't for you. FW is for new people and people who care about the FACTION side - the INTRIGUE that attracts new players. New players come in and are totally lost when all they see is a bunch of Veterans that DON"T CARE ABOUT THEM because they accuse them of being spies because they're new players. They are lost because they see these things that they have to do but make NO CONSEQUENCE on anything because it's totally pointless.

Here's a discussion I had with a total noob who joined FW - and I have had other similar discussions.




I have recruited many Militia noobs to get them away from the militia because I knew all they'd do is get unhappy and discouraged with the system.

Noone recruits them, noone tries to train them. And they leave.


They are discouraged by the lack of :

Consequences
Veterans that will help them

And then you come in and say "omg, I will never be able to do my fight club stuff again!!"

Seriously? OMG, let's make sure this feature is made perfectly for you guys, just for your little fight "club". /sarcasm

@Bloodpetal

i think you misunderstand a lot about my point of view. and i think many of your ideas are pretty ridiculous. i would never pretend to understand what motivates others to play the game and what they get out of it. saying that you think FW should just be for noobs is your opinion, but i think it's completely ridiculous.

i personally play FW because I like to pvp and FW (even broken) brings groups of people together with the notion of killing each other. we may complain about fewer kills, but man, check our killboards compared to other losec corps and pirate corps. losec is completely broken. ccp knows this and they're hoping that the FW pumps some life into losec quickly to buy some time for them to think through the re-balancing. i am also a semi-rp kind of guy. if you were in the corp you'd know what i'm like

i'm not opposed to change, but i'm opposed to change that wont make a difference or will make things worse. i'm a realist and like to think in 8+ years of eve i'm glued into how things will probably work out. and most of these changes will have opposite the effect ccp think they will. most of these changes are 0.0 copy and paste and make eve harder for no gain. eve shouldnt be a job. these changes turn eve into either a job or empties losec of FW ships in stations. which takes all the module and ammo trade with it

i want to meet the guy who came up with the idea that out of the goodness of their hearts, FW guys will drop hundreds of thousands of LP into sov. and we're talking hundreds of thousands of LP. each "level" per system is currently proposed at tens of thousands of LP. it is just an obviously bad idea and bears no relation to immersion or sensibility. it just plain doesn't make sense

i have no problem with flipping plexes, and again, if you knew anything about me/us, we're happy to flip systems. we are always on call to anybody flipping plexes and move ass to give them help if they need it. but i'm not going to spend 2 days to flip a system, and then watch it flip back in 2 days and then care enough to flip it back again when a. there is no reward or b. no incentive. at the same time i don't expect gold plates to be dropped off into my hanger bay for flipping systems - i just want to promote healthy pvp.

and yes, 0000 are the only corp that i know of in amarr that are out roaming every night (edit: SBA as well). every night we have a gang up and we're out. sometimes there is 2 people in it, sometimes there is 20. but we are out every night. maybe you just dont see us

but hey. this isn't about what zero wants. i don't care what anybody here says, as long as they say it. unless people express their views either similar to mine or different, ccp wont get to make a judgement call either way. in all my time playing eve, the one thing i know is that the devs do, what the devs do. if it's a mistake they'll fix it in x months/years and if i can't put up with it we just do something else. but i'd prefer to enjoy FW.

edit: oh. and if you think you need bubbles to get a fight you really are out of touch with how to get things done and maybe you should think about what you teach noobs. i'm not an oldand bitter veteren who has a fantasy about fight club. i just don't like bullshit in eve or real life. and this smells of bullshit from top to bottom.
edit2: if you want a medal for taking in noobs and making them feel good, great. me, i'm interested in finding people i like, and flying with them and having some laughs. it's not my job to take in all the noobs and teach them about eve. if they want to learn from me, great, they join the fleet and fly. if not, they can hop in their bombers and do the missions which is what 90% of people involved in FW are really doing. farming LP.
edit3: consequences are fine. but grind is bad. and rewarding blob and swarm mechanics is just a terrible terrible idea. focusing on pvp lets people choose fights and fly no matter what. forcing people to flip systems allows the side with the most pilots active in all timezones win. that isn't about risk vs rewards it's about numbers = win. eve is not supposed to be easy. it's not supposed to be fair. but it shouldn't encourage the things that "most people" don't like.

no. they are pushing through a fix for FW because by default it fixes a lot of losec. then losec gets a focus in its entirety but it is much much harder to fix losec outside and within fw as it means mining, industry, pos, sov, pirates, criminality, minerals, moon goo, ring mining, dust, blah blah blah. i hate to point it out to you, but losec outside of FW space is COMPLETELY dead. it was clearly stated that fw gets a look now, then the rest of lowsec and 0.0 as part of the bigger picture.

Absolutely, but they should fix FW, not try and fix lowsec via FW. FW = War between factions, not just a gate aggression free PVP.

@zero



reward: increased LP gain overall
incentive: PVP and reclaiming access to the systems stations

Sorry you dont like it, but what was it you really wanted from CCP exactly? In reality this should reinvigorate your PVP, and to you claim that you think this is going to promote blob warfare; I have witnessed far more FW blobs on opposite sides of lowsec gates than I should for people who arent interested in blobbing. I cant say thats all you do, because I know full well that there are many of you who will fly around solo, or in very small gangs, and I have a lot of respect for some of your solo pilots, but come on, thats your argument really?

All PVP in this game favors the blob, regardless of what you do, a side with greater numbers when used properly will invariably always trump one with fewer numbers. Thats just the nature of the beast.