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Why Tech 3 should only be for cruiser-class ships

Author
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-03-24 20:33:55 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Consider the four ships we have now. Tengu, Proteus, Loki and Legion. Each one, if fitted properly, is perfectly capable of soloing a small gang of battleships and battlecruisers (source: Garmon). They are also perfectly capable of raking in ISK tanking sanctums alone - their combination of small sig radius, relatively high speed and fubar tank makes them excellent damage sponges.

Now consider this: A tech 3 battleship. We currently have tech 3 cruisers capable of tanking more damage than a battleship can - my Proteus can even be active tanked to half the tank of my Thanatos. Traditionally, cruisers do about a third of the tank/dps of a battleship. Do you want to make it so we have ships capable of soloing capitals? While I admit the hilarity/tear value of that would be very high, it makes them completely unbeatable in things such as subcapital warfare.


OH GOD DON'T EVER CHANGE THE HIERARCHY OF INTERNET SPACE SHIPS CHANGE IS BAD.

No its not, change is good, it keeps the game fresh, so yes, I would, and people have been asking for a sub cap, cap killing ship for a very long time.

The upcoming titan nerf thats meant to stop Titans from killing sub caps is going to fail at doing that, but make caps much harder to kill when found repping towers or rring on station undocks. Something that kills them might be nice.

And yea, your proteus can tank half of what a thanny does, while doing less DPS than an Enyo while doing that.

Stop your wild exaggerations and get a grip.

ElQuirko wrote:
Tech 3 frigates - would you put around a billion isk in a frigate hull?


Yes, frequently, between faction fitting and implants I often run well over a billion on my frigates, hth.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Mimiru Minahiro
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-03-24 20:47:27 UTC
I heard a rumor that the words T3 and Destroyer were used in conjunction in one of the fanfest presentations. Can anyone confirm this?
Taria A'nor
Department of Social Security
#23 - 2012-03-24 20:58:34 UTC
Mimiru Minahiro wrote:
I heard a rumor that the words T3 and Destroyer were used in conjunction in one of the fanfest presentations. Can anyone confirm this?



Shocked


*joins RVB*
Selinate
#24 - 2012-03-24 21:04:51 UTC
I'm not sure about this. Yes, the benefits of T3 ships are amazing, but you have to consider the huge drawbacks also.

A) Skill point loss when destroyed. Granted, it's not always *too* much, but 4-5 days worth of skill training on a T3 skill to get it back up can potentially put that T3 fit that you love out of commission for that time period.

B) HUGE isk loss compared to most other ships, especially when considered within it's own ship class.

Also, T3's are rarely fitted as wtfuber as you make it out. Yes, there are quite a few people who can do it, but the majority of T3 pilots I've ever PVP'd against don't uber fit their T3 to incredible levels usually.

My 2 cents, I think a 3-400 mil frig with mods included would be ok, if the same skill loss is applied.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-03-24 21:06:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dbars Grinding
any new ships cant be a bad idea can it?

I have more space likes than you. 

ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-03-24 21:07:08 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


And yea, your proteus can tank half of what a thanny does, while doing less DPS than an Enyo while doing that.



600DPS is less than an enyo?

Dodixie > Hek

Mimiru Minahiro
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-03-24 21:09:01 UTC
Taria A'nor wrote:
Mimiru Minahiro wrote:
I heard a rumor that the words T3 and Destroyer were used in conjunction in one of the fanfest presentations. Can anyone confirm this?



Shocked


*joins RVB*


I know right!
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-03-24 21:11:14 UTC
Mimiru Minahiro wrote:
I heard a rumor that the words T3 and Destroyer were used in conjunction in one of the fanfest presentations. Can anyone confirm this?


Actually, that wouldn't be a bad niche to fill...

Dodixie > Hek

Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#29 - 2012-03-24 21:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyrina Manto
ElQuirko wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:


And yea, your proteus can tank half of what a thanny does, while doing less DPS than an Enyo while doing that.



600DPS is less than an enyo?



Its only ~100 dps higher than a shield gank Enyo with Null. Thats pretty poor.

Especially when the enyo is only 50m isk or so.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-03-24 21:21:54 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:


And yea, your proteus can tank half of what a thanny does, while doing less DPS than an Enyo while doing that.



600DPS is less than an enyo?



Its only ~100 dps higher than a shield gank Enyo with Null. Thats pretty poor.

Especially when the enyo is only 50m isk or so.


And your enyo can tank 2,000 DPS?

(To be fair, that's all L5 with 2 reppers running OH and an improved exile booster. With my stats, no booster and no OH, it tanks 1135 DPS normally)

Dodixie > Hek

Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#31 - 2012-03-24 21:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyrina Manto
And what happens when you get hit with neuts?

*edit, Ill answer myself*
You turn into an expensive pinata.
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-03-24 21:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: adopt
I fail to see your argument. Your saying, that a ship that costs, 600-700mil in Subsystems and Hull alone and actually takes a fair bit of training and pilot competence to be flown properly, should be nerfed because it can take on gangs by itself? You sir, are the definition of stupid. Contrary to popular belief it is not difficult to kill a T3 that is fit for pvp, 2 rapiers/lokis that bitch is going nowhere. Just because you are bad at this game doesn't mean it should reflect other players.

EDIT: On top of the isk loss you also lose a skill which puts your maximum effectiveness out of commision for 3-5 days depending on remap.

Inb4 someone says I know nothing, i've been flying the Loki for the last 5 weeks, (even managed to lose one) I invested 1.6bil and 300mil in implants to make it what it is.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-03-24 21:27:27 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:
And what happens when you get hit with neuts?

*edit, Ill answer myself*
You turn into an expensive pinata.


Does your enyo fare much better?

*edit, Ill answer myself*
lolno

We're not here to discuss my ship, or your ship, or the guy from the alliance that just drops supercapitals on everyone's opinion on whatever the hell his tech moon spews out, we're talking about T3s. ANYTHING hit with neuts becomes a pinata of some sort.

Dodixie > Hek

Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#34 - 2012-03-24 21:28:07 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Cyrina Manto wrote:
And what happens when you get hit with neuts?

*edit, Ill answer myself*
You turn into an expensive pinata.


Does your enyo fare much better?

*edit, Ill answer myself*
lolno

We're not here to discuss my ship, or your ship, or the guy from the alliance that just drops supercapitals on everyone's opinion on whatever the hell his tech moon spews out, we're talking about T3s. ANYTHING hit with neuts becomes a pinata of some sort.



Except a properly fit tengu.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-03-24 21:28:10 UTC
adopt wrote:
I fail to see your argument. Your saying, that a ship that costs, 600-700mil in Subsystems and Hull alone and actually takes a fair bit of training and pilot competence to be flown properly, should be nerfed because it can take on gangs by itself? You sir, are the definition of stupid. Contrary to popular belief it is not difficult to kill a T3 that is fit for pvp, 2 rapiers/lokis that bitch is going nowhere. Just because you are bad at this game doesn't mean it should reflect other players.


My point exactly.

Dodixie > Hek

ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-03-24 21:28:52 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:
Except a properly fit tengu.


You can find the "unsubscribe" button under the Account Management page.

Dodixie > Hek

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-03-24 21:38:57 UTC
If all the 3 T3's I can fly were equally versatile I wouldn't be flying 80% 1 (Tengu) and 20% other (Loki), the third one being an hangar queen.

We don't need T3 frigates when navy/pirate ones are already far too good so some T2 ones have no point.

By the way, we don't need anything else that trashes a whole ship line like new BC's, nor new 'I win" button.
Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#38 - 2012-03-24 21:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyrina Manto
I recommend biomassing. Big smile

If T3 frigates can bring in some new roles to sub cruiser hulls Im all for it.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-03-24 21:41:24 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Cyrina Manto wrote:
And what happens when you get hit with neuts?

*edit, Ill answer myself*
You turn into an expensive pinata.


ANYTHING hit with neuts becomes a pinata of some sort.


Except a properly fit tengu.



False statement, it's exactly what makes a 3B+ isk Tengu crack the string slip. Neut+web, next time try with "except Titans"

Next
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-03-24 21:44:50 UTC
Cyrina Manto wrote:
I recommend biomassing. Big smile


Heh, two people have now disagreed with your point. Your move, T3 h8r.

Dodixie > Hek

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