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Follow up! Thread about kid killed in Florida.

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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#21 - 2012-03-22 15:14:46 UTC
NeoShocker wrote:
Heh, did read several articles on it, still pretty iffy on this and awaiting results from the investigation. Makes me wonder if the situation would've been different if Zimmerman didn't call 911 first.

But I must stress, even if I had a gun, it shouldn't be that difficult to shoot on the arms or legs to disable any individual. It is quite terrible it happen. :(



Just about every gun accident I hear about, being an instructor and all that. There was a retired cop once, Florida I think, who accidentally shot himself in the inner thigh - right through the femoral. He bled out in less than 2 minutes.


Here is an very interesting Yahoo article - interesting in that in a world where the police can pretty much do what they want, suddenly they can't arrest somebody. This is a load of BS. This is a psyop to kill the Castle Doctrine, hated by both the police and the media.

The article also has a very interesting "designation" they give to Zimmerman. Can any of you catch it? Here's a hint: the media would have really LOVED this case if Zimmerman was white. It would have been perfect for their agenda.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#22 - 2012-03-22 16:41:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
This is a psyop to kill the Castle Doctrine, hated by both the police and the media.


I notice that you ignored the part where I pointed out how stupid this idea is. Let me repeat it for you:

No sane person would assume that the public outrage would be over the specific technicality on which they refused to arrest him, instead of massive outrage against the police in general for letting him get away with murder.

Anyone who doesn't look at the case in detail sees it as "police do nothing while a man gets away with murder" and hate the police.

People who read more carefully see something about "castle doctrine" and wonder if maybe that needs to be changed.

However, anyone who spends a few more minutes thinking about it realizes that the "castle doctrine" does not apply here and their outrage goes right back to the police.


So, for your bull**** "psyop" theory to work, the police would have to gladly accept outrage against police in general from 99% of the people who hear about the incident in exchange for getting 1% of the people who hear about it outraged about "castle doctrine" laws. How the **** does this make even the slightest bit of sense to anyone who isn't wearing a tinfoil hat?
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-03-22 17:59:08 UTC
The issue with most conspiracies that I see is that they take a significant amount of coordination, and intelligence to pull off. (Which look how things run by governments get handled...Can't balance a budget, but you can successfully pull off a fake moon landing with no one squealing?)

Also a fair amount of people caring in the first place, which i'd have to say more things happen due to apathy or laziness.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#24 - 2012-03-22 18:16:40 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
This is a psyop to kill the Castle Doctrine, hated by both the police and the media.


I notice that you ignored the part where I pointed out how stupid this idea is. Let me repeat it for you:

No sane person would assume that the public outrage would be over the specific technicality on which they refused to arrest him, instead of massive outrage against the police in general for letting him get away with murder.

Anyone who doesn't look at the case in detail sees it as "police do nothing while a man gets away with murder" and hate the police.

People who read more carefully see something about "castle doctrine" and wonder if maybe that needs to be changed.

However, anyone who spends a few more minutes thinking about it realizes that the "castle doctrine" does not apply here and their outrage goes right back to the police.


So, for your bull**** "psyop" theory to work, the police would have to gladly accept outrage against police in general from 99% of the people who hear about the incident in exchange for getting 1% of the people who hear about it outraged about "castle doctrine" laws. How the **** does this make even the slightest bit of sense to anyone who isn't wearing a tinfoil hat?



Obviously you have not dealt with people in government and the media.

I have.

I too used to think a lot of what gets assumed or said was "tinfoil hattery" (and that's what I called it).

But for the last 15 years, involved in lawsuits, FOIA requests, delegate selections in election years (and the lawsuits dealing with vote fraud), along with gun cases, property cases - one of which involved cops - and I almost had a standoff with a SWAT Team back in in '02. I have friends who were threatened and a a couple die from strange circumstances.

You can think everything is a conspiracy, like I did, until you try to actually stand up for your rights and the rights of others, train people in the use of weapons, own a farm or a business, and challenge the establishment. Then you will witness firsthand that a lot of what people like yourself call conspiracy is real. It's not invisible-spaceship full of reptoid real (that's just a straw man made for ridicule), but it's a very dry and administrative reality, a paragraph in a legal document on page 50 of 500, an admission from an agent or detective in the parking lot of the courthouse, blacked out spots on maps, etc.

I wish you were right. But you are not.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#25 - 2012-03-22 18:40:28 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Obviously you have not dealt with people in government and the media.


No, but I have dealt with people in general, and your theories keep running into one very, very simple problem:

The actions of the people in the supposed "conspiracy" are not the actions of a rational organization with the agenda that you claim it has.

If your proposed conspiracy, like in this case, requires that the people involved act in ways that are at best completely irrational, and at worst directly opposed to their supposed goals, it is tinfoil hat nonsense.

Quote:
train people in the use of weapons


Ah yes, the favorite hobby of the paranoid and delusional.

PS: unless you're training people in the use of weapons like predator drones or artillery or stealth bombers your "training" is nothing more than LARPing. No matter how much you try to be serious about it, you're still just throwing foam balls and yelling "MAGIC MISSILE!!!!".
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-03-24 01:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jada Maroo
You already see the usual suspects - bed wetting socialists, whimpering gun grabbers, community agitators, professional blacks - trying to use this to push for the repeal of the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws. Thankfully it won't be successful, and those laws had nothing to do with Zimmerman's actions, but it does go to show you how shameless the opponents of laws that protect people in instances of actual self defense really are.

I'm also not going to jump to condemn Zimmerman. I believe nothing shake down scam artists and liars like Jesse Jackson, the agitator-in-chief say, and their complicit media cohorts say. Is it possible this kid was wrongly killed? Absolutely. Is it possible he dressed like a thug, acted like a thug, got up in this man's face and died like a thug? Absolutely. If you don't want people to think you're thugs, stop glorifying thug life.

I do know cops don't just let you walk away once you've shot someone unless they have awfully compelling evidence that you were engaged in an act of self defense.

Of course, we'll only hear what really happened a couple weeks from now after the media's moved on to something else and Jesse Jackson can't find any more cameras in Florida to get in front of.
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-03-24 02:06:34 UTC
This story is really sad.

I try not to jump to conclusions, but Zimmerman's "they always get away" comment before the actual incident is pretty damning. Not to mention that a man with a firearm has plenty of options when faced with a 17-year-old armed with Skittles and iced tea.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The article also has a very interesting "designation" they give to Zimmerman. Can any of you catch it? Here's a hint: the media would have really LOVED this case if Zimmerman was white. It would have been perfect for their agenda.


I noticed that too. Nearly every article I've read throws in "hispanic" as though implying it's a significant variable.

Occasionally plays sober
SpaceSquirrels
#28 - 2012-03-24 03:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: SpaceSquirrels
Jada Maroo wrote:
You already see the usual suspects - bed wetting socialists, whimpering gun grabbers, community agitators, professional blacks - trying to use this to push for the repeal of the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws. Thankfully it won't be successful, and those laws had nothing to do with Zimmerman's actions, but it does go to show you how shameless the opponents of laws that protect people in instances of actual self defense really are.

I'm also not going to jump to condemn Zimmerman. I believe nothing shake down scam artists and liars like Jesse Jackson, the agitator-in-chief say, and their complicit media cohorts say. Is it possible this kid was wrongly killed? Absolutely. Is it possible he dressed like a thug, acted like a thug, got up in this man's face and died like a thug? Absolutely. If you don't want people to think you're thugs, stop glorifying thug life.

I do know cops don't just let you walk away once you've shot someone unless they have awfully compelling evidence that you were engaged in an act of self defense.

Of course, we'll only hear what really happened a couple weeks from now after the media's moved on to something else and Jesse Jackson can't find any more cameras in Florida to get in front of.


Lol did you read the article? Also a link to a phone conversation he had moments before he got shot. He was talking to some girl... Literally Zimmerman was following him around..first in an SUV then he got out. As for the thug thing. Kid was in a sweat shirt with it up because it was raining. I dunno about you, but I own a black sweatshirt as well... And im pretty ******* far from thug as you can get. (Eve one actually)

I'm not sure how talking to a 16 year old girl walking home with candy in your pocket is thug... But if someone was following me in an SUV... Then gets out with a gun in their hand and doesn't stated their purpose/intent. I figure at that point it's you or me. In which case being in that kids shoes if he did attack he was justified in doing so....This guy might want to kill me or kidnap me, and it turns out he was right.

Lets ask the gun nuts above what they would have done if a guy was following him with a loaded 9mm?...Not even a cop.

Seriously all Zimmerman had to do was ask the kid. "Excuse me can I help you? You look lost."

But yes when this story was first released without accreditation and race was allover it...and the name zimmerman people made it seem like a white v. black thing. Once they found out he was cuban it lost its luster.
Selinate
#29 - 2012-03-24 03:13:32 UTC
Jett0 wrote:
This story is really sad.

I try not to jump to conclusions, but Zimmerman's "they always get away" comment before the actual incident is pretty damning. Not to mention that a man with a firearm has plenty of options when faced with a 17-year-old armed with Skittles and iced tea.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The article also has a very interesting "designation" they give to Zimmerman. Can any of you catch it? Here's a hint: the media would have really LOVED this case if Zimmerman was white. It would have been perfect for their agenda.


I noticed that too. Nearly every article I've read throws in "hispanic" as though implying it's a significant variable.


Well yeah, in order for something to be considered racist, usually the two parties must first be of different races, unless one of the guys has a REALLY weird inferiority complex....
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-03-24 04:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jett0
Haha Jewish Nazis...

The part I'm drawing attention to is the "hispanic" portion, as though his violence is somehow related to that.

EDIT: Wow, N azis is filtered? It's not a dirty word, CCP Forum Filter Dude.

Occasionally plays sober
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#31 - 2012-03-24 05:38:43 UTC
The Yahoo article referred to Zimmerman (which oddly enough tends to be a Jewish name) as a "white hispanic".

Once upon a time there was no hispanic designation. It was thought of as a ethnic group. Hispanic was invented in the 60s because you need more groups in order to have groupthink and help the divide and conquer thing.

Of course the hate crimes where there is clearly hispanic on black, according to the way the feds log it, are listed under "white".


But a white hispanic - never have I saw the media reach so far up their own ass to change reality. This is an epidemic in America: people trying to change reality by believing what they want to believe real hard.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#32 - 2012-03-24 05:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Obviously you have not dealt with people in government and the media.


No, but I have dealt with people in general, and your theories keep running into one very, very simple problem:

The actions of the people in the supposed "conspiracy" are not the actions of a rational organization with the agenda that you claim it has.

If your proposed conspiracy, like in this case, requires that the people involved act in ways that are at best completely irrational, and at worst directly opposed to their supposed goals, it is tinfoil hat nonsense.

Quote:
train people in the use of weapons


Ah yes, the favorite hobby of the paranoid and delusional.

PS: unless you're training people in the use of weapons like predator drones or artillery or stealth bombers your "training" is nothing more than LARPing. No matter how much you try to be serious about it, you're still just throwing foam balls and yelling "MAGIC MISSILE!!!!".



Wow all those letters and nothing changed. Keep trying. I like the effort.

oh look an article on this raising very good questions about why the state gets to murder blacks but someone who they want to be white (and is not) will be some reason to strip people of their rights to defend themselves.


Quote:
According to ABC News, “The Sanford Police Department says it stands by its investigation, and that it was not race or incompetence that prevented it from arresting Zimmerman but the law.” Under the terms of the Florida state statutes, however, Zimmerman committed an act of criminal homicide, not justified self-defense. Yet the civilian disarmament lobby – most likely working in collaboration with police unions – moved quickly to implicate the “Stand Your Ground” law in the killing.
Police unions, the civilian disarmament lobby, and the state-centric media all subscribe to the idea that the government should have a monopoly on the use of force. This is why they oppose “stand your ground” and “castle doctrine” laws recognizing the individual right to armed self-defense.



Quote:
Yes, the familiar cast of prejudice profiteers and racial ambulance chasers – who failed to be moved by the racially charged police murders of Manuel Loggins and Kenneth Chamberlain -- has helped turn the killing of Trayvon Martin into a public works project. But the ideology that has propelled this issue to the top of the media agenda isn’t a variant of racial collectivism: It is the even more murderous doctrine of government supremacism, under which Zimmerman’s lethal actions would be considered entirely appropriate if he had been swaddled in a State-issued costume.

Within six months we should see a plethora of bills -- supported by a coalition that includes the Brady Campaign and police unions -- bearing Trayvon Martin's name, all of which will seek the repeal of "Castle Doctrine" and "Stand Your Ground" self-defense laws.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-03-24 06:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jada Maroo
SpaceSquirrels wrote:


Lol did you read the article? ...

But yes when this story was first released without accreditation and race was allover it...and the name zimmerman people made it seem like a white v. black thing. Once they found out he was cuban it lost its luster.


The problem with news reports is people assuming they're fact.

Remember when Whitney Houston died and it absolutely wasn't cocaine and now it's like "LOL, yeah it was cocaine."?

Remember when a noose was found by a black firefighter in Baltimore and everyone screamed "Racism!" until a month later when the black firefighter who found it admitted to hanging it there? (there's a LOT of stories identical to this one too!)

Remember how on 9/11 there were car bombs going off all over the place in New York and Washington being reported like every hour on the news and none of them actually occured?

This stuff happens all the time. I know because I'm a news junkie. And whenever one of these "too perfect to be true" made-for-outrage news stories happens and hundreds of articles report rumors as fact I know that if I check back a month later there's gonna be like 9 stories that follow up and contradict at least half of what got reported.

Check back on this story 2 weeks from now, a month from now, and 3 months from now, and just watch how it changes.
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-03-24 16:20:27 UTC
I dunno evidence as it stands has remained the same. Kid got shot walking home. He had a cell phone and stuff that he bought from a convenience store. He then got stalked, and shot on someone else's property.

Zimmerman claims to have shot in self defense... However he provoked the altercation by following the kid and then getting out of his car with a pistol in hand. Also assault with a deadly weapon...not on your property against a 160lb kid un armed...After the cops telling you to wait for them... eh not looking to good.

Put yourself in the kids shoes given the events... What would you have done?
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-03-24 17:26:31 UTC
I support stand-your-ground laws, but in this case it's pretty clear Zimmerman escalated the situation well beyond any kind of doubt regarding the inappropriateness of his use of force whether it was self-defense at the time he actually shot the kid or not. Add incompetent cops and you have a giant mess.

KB Link
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#36 - 2012-03-24 18:32:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Oh Damn.
Here's the latest from Fox News.....doing what it does best, reporting facts that are inconvenient to liberals.

Looks like the race hustlers spoke too soon.

Not that facts matter to the outraged idiots on the streets.

Seems the police have a witness that backs up Zimmerman's recollection of the event.

The witness, quite reasonably, does not want his identity known. Hooded gangbangers would probably burn down his house.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#37 - 2012-03-24 18:40:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Seems the police have a witness that backs up Zimmerman's recollection of the event.


1) A witness, as opposed to multiple witnesses and 911 call records, in a case where the police are suspected of unethical conduct in their "investigation".

2) Even if there's a witness to the fight, Zimmerman had no business being there in the first place. Once he disobeyed the "don't follow him" instruction and pursued Martin for no good reason, Martin had every right to harm Zimmerman in self defense. Even if Zimmerman ended up on the losing end of the fight, it was still first degree murder.

Quote:
The witness, quite reasonably, does not want his identity known. Hooded gangbangers would probably burn down his house.


Yeah, the dreaded skittles and tea gang. Those guys are just brutal, as you can see from the fact that they tortured Zimmerman to death and burned down his house. It makes perfect sense that a witness would be afraid to testify openly with them around.
SpaceSquirrels
#38 - 2012-03-24 18:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SpaceSquirrels
It's not in dispute whether or not he attacked Zimmerman... The dispute is Zimmerman provoked it by not identifying himself (as neighborhood watch) and stalked the kid...and then got out of his SUV carrying a 9mm in his hand. (After getting off the phone with the police telling him to stay put)

So once again if you were in the kids shoes... Someone is tailing you in an SUV while your walking home talking on cell phone, and then gets out with a gun in their hand and keeps following you. What would you do?

You got a few options.
1. Confront the guy.
2. Run
3. Call the cops yourself as well.
4. Defend yourself because someone walking around chasing you in their car with a gun in the hand means they want to share a beer with you right?

1 and 3 are eventually going to lead you back options 2 or 4...

All this talk of self defense the kid is way more justified in it than Zimmerman because he was minding his own business to begin with.

You don't get to claim self defense when you're the one starting **** in the first place!
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#39 - 2012-03-24 19:03:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
It's not in dispute whether or not he attacked Zimmerman... The dispute is Zimmerman provoked it by not identifying himself (as neighborhood watch) and stalked the kid...and then got out of his SUV carrying a 9mm in his hand. (After getting off the phone with the police telling him to stay put)

So once again if you were in the kids shoes... Someone is tailing you in an SUV while your walking home talking on cell phone, and then gets out with a gun in their hand and keeps following you. What would you do?

You got a few options.
1. Confront the guy.
2. Run
3. Call the cops yourself as well.
4. Defend yourself because someone walking around chasing you in their car with a gun in the hand means they want to share a beer with you right?

1 and 3 are eventually going to lead you back options 2 or 4...

All this talk of self defense the kid is way more justified in it than Zimmerman because he was minding his own business to begin with.

You don't get to claim self defense when you're the one starting **** in the first place!


Apparently the dead black idiot picked 5.

#5) Attack somebody you don't know, and die like a beeeyotch when they turned out to be armed. Too bad he wasn't smarter.

EDIT: Oh wait - word is from the White House: he's the son Obama never had. I guess that explains a lot.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#40 - 2012-03-24 19:16:32 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
#5) Attack somebody you don't know, and die like a beeeyotch when they turned out to be armed. Too bad he wasn't smarter.


Correction:

#5: Attempt to defend yourself against an attacker, and fail because, in addition to being larger and stronger, he has a gun and murders you.

The only question here is whether you're honestly too stupid to miss the part where Zimmerman was the aggressor and Martin was absolutely justified in using force to defend himself (whether or not he actually managed to do so before being shot), or whether you're just a racist {censored}.