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I'm a Particle Astrophysicist, ask me anything

Author
Whitehound
#361 - 2012-03-23 16:46:21 UTC
Selinate wrote:
You see, this is one of the biggest misconceptions about magnetic fields.

A magnetic field does not attract. It does not repel. That is an electric field. All particles have an electric field. However, a particle only needs charge to respond to a magnetic field, in itself if a particle is still, it has no magnetic field.

A magnetic field simply causes charged particles to go round in a circle. However, moving electric fields also cause a magnetic field, but no, it's not pointless to use magnets on something that does not have a magnetic field. This is a misconception.

You mean this is your biggest misconception about magnetic fields. It is pretty pointless to use magnets on anything that does not somehow have a magnetic field.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Selinate
#362 - 2012-03-23 16:52:31 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Selinate wrote:
You see, this is one of the biggest misconceptions about magnetic fields.

A magnetic field does not attract. It does not repel. That is an electric field. All particles have an electric field. However, a particle only needs charge to respond to a magnetic field, in itself if a particle is still, it has no magnetic field.

A magnetic field simply causes charged particles to go round in a circle. However, moving electric fields also cause a magnetic field, but no, it's not pointless to use magnets on something that does not have a magnetic field. This is a misconception.

You mean this is your biggest misconception about magnetic fields. It is pretty pointless to use magnets on anything that does not somehow have a magnetic field.


0/10. Try trolling someone else, anyone with a degree knows you're an idiot now.
Whitehound
#363 - 2012-03-23 17:06:43 UTC
Selinate wrote:
0/10. Try trolling someone else, anyone with a degree knows you're an idiot now.

Do not get mad just because you miss the point. It is not even your thread. Your comments are cute, but not really helpful. That you like to split hair for no other reason than to think out loud while you are still learning is of no interest to anyone.

Ask yourself, what is the point of using something if it does not interact with what you are trying to manipulate?

So cringe all you want. You are a fake.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Selinate
#364 - 2012-03-23 17:14:01 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Selinate wrote:
0/10. Try trolling someone else, anyone with a degree knows you're an idiot now.

Do not get mad just because you miss the point. It is not even your thread. Your comments are cute, but not really helpful. That you like to split hair for no other reason than to think out loud while you are still learning is of no interest to anyone.

Ask yourself, what is the point of using something if it does not interact with what you are trying to manipulate?

So cringe all you want. You are a fake.


Didn't I just tell you to troll someone else? Are you really that needy for attention?
Whitehound
#365 - 2012-03-23 17:37:34 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Didn't I just tell you to troll someone else? Are you really that needy for attention?

You would not know what attention is if I gave some to you, noob.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2012-03-23 19:16:19 UTC
oh my, such frustration! such tension! how entertaining =D

let's start at the end and work our way backwards, shall we?

first, these two statements...

Quote:
A magnetic field does not attract. It does not repel. That is an electric field. All particles have an electric field


and

Quote:
It is pretty pointless to use magnets on anything that does not somehow have a magnetic field, you know?


... are incorrect (the first being completely incorrect and the second being incorrect in the context the discussion concerning magnetic confinement fusion).

the force acting on a charged particle of charge q and velocity V in the presence of a magnetic field B is precisely F = qV X B where all bold face characters are vectors. there is actually much more going on in this equation, and there are other ways it can be expressed, but this is generally the most familiar to people. the value of F can be either positive or negative, and so the charged particle can experience both attractive and repulsive forces with respect to the source of the magnetic field. this confusion may be from the close relationship between electric and magnetic fields.

consider a charged particle traveling in a straight line that suddenly enters a region of space with a local magnetic field of B. when it enters this region it experiences a force proportional to its velocity and it begins to move along a curved trajectory. now, lets say we didn't know that this field was a magnetic field. knowing the mass, charge, and velocity of the particle we could still conclude that there IS a magnetic field present because of how the charge accelerates. HOWEVER, what if we decided to move with the charge, matching its initial velocity of V? from our perspective the charge now has a velocity of 0. when we enter the region of space with the field, we will see the charge begin to accelerate! because we see that the charge had a velocity of 0 from our perspective, we can measure the acceleration and conclude that it is under the effect of an ELECTRIC field!

from these two conclusions we can see that both electric and magnetic fields are related by relativity transformations (be it special or Galilean). the electric and magnetic force were the first two fundamental forces to be unified mathematically, forming the electromagnetic force.

your statement that all particles have an electric field is, presently, incorrect by simple counter example: the neutrino, which has no charge or electromagnetic moment of any kind. it is a fully neutral lepton. i included the qualifier "presently" because if the Higgs field exists, and can be successfully coupled to the EM field, then this may no longer be the case, though current evidence in so far as we can measure it, suggests otherwise.

the second statement should also be answered by the above discussion, linking the electric field, magnetic field, and v together. whether or not a system has a magnetic field is a matter of reference frame.

Whitehound
#367 - 2012-03-23 19:44:55 UTC
Tsadkiel wrote:
... and the second being incorrect in the context the discussion concerning magnetic confinement fusion).

the second statement should also be answered by the above discussion, linking the electric field, magnetic field, and v together. whether or not a system has a magnetic field is a matter of reference frame.

As much as I like what you are trying to do with this thread are you being wrong. My comment was not given to you, but to Selinate and as such should not be interpreted by you. You are being too proud of yourself.

I have given three questions above, which you can answer. (Comment #352)

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#368 - 2012-03-23 19:48:33 UTC

ooooook, there are some fairly important corrections to this statement that i feel i need to make... i mean no offense by this

Quote:
The big problem with these is that none of them run continuously, they all pulse over and over again to produce fusion. These pulses use a LOT of energy. Hint, this is also why I scoffed at people in a thread a long, long time ago who suggested a space craft that runs off fusion of deuterium in free space. The energy required to acquire that hydrogen and fuse it? BHAHAHAHAHA.


i go over the details of different fusion processes (known as confinement methods) in post #307 of page 16 of this thread. Magnetic Confinement fusion using a TOKAMAK device is the current most promising method for using fusion as a source of energy. the ITER project, which is currently under construction, should, even within engineering uncertainties, produce a few percent more electrical power than it takes to run. this method is STABLE is is designed around maintaining a long term state of equilibrium within the confined plasma. the pulse reactions you are referring to are most likely Inertial Confinement, which is often used to study heavier or short lived fusion processes.

the method of fueling a ship using interstellar deuterium was first proposed in 1960 and is known as a Bussard Ramjet. the device that catches the local deuterium ions (and other fussable material) is known as a Ram Scoop, and is simply a set of two "loops" of magnetic field extending out in front of the ship. as the ship moves through the interstellar gas, the relative velocity causes the ions of the gas to accelerate along the field line into the ship. this can be done very cheaply in space if we can create super conducting materials that remain so at interstellar temperatures. the magnets can then simply be "charged" with current, which they will then hold until quenched. the feasibility of such a device is primarily reduced by the estimated deuterium densities of interstellar space, and not the technology itself. it had a great deal of support among the scientific community when it was first proposed, and was even mentioned by Carl Sagan in Cosmos. even it if cannot fuel a starship entirely on its own, the idea has merit just from an efficiency standpoint. do not cast it aside so casually.

Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2012-03-23 20:08:44 UTC
The Lobsters wrote:
Two part question


1. Gyroscopes, and the forces contained/created by them. Why do they prefer to stay in a certain alignment. I've never had a decent answer on that one and I've asked a few scientists chums.


2. Fusion reactors. No longer a scientific problem. Now an engineering problem, we should see them soon enough.

Aren't they going to be big-assed gyroscopes powered by big-assed magnets? Are there going to be any secondary space/time effects when we start to produce forces of that scale?

You thread's mega btw!


so, the fusion stuff has been answered. now for gyroscopes!

all of the unique properties of the gyroscope comes from the principle of Conservation of Angular Momentum! just as linear momentum is conserved in the collision of vehicles and billiard balls, so to is angular momentum conserved in the spinning of bicycle wheels and gyroscopes.

consider a rotating disk. its angular momentum is a vector perpendicular to this disk. if you tilt the plane of this disk you must also tilt this vector, changing the disks angular momentum. in order to do this, you must do work on the disk, which requires the application of a force. the gyroscope "wants" to stay in it's initial position because it needs to conserve its total angular momentum. it cannot do this perfectly though, because there are usually other forces acting on the gyro, including gravity and friction.

this is a hard concept to explain properly without a thorough understanding of mechanics, so if i come up with anything better, i will edit this post.
Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2012-03-23 20:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsadkiel
Whitehound wrote:
Why look at something that is far away, unreachable and happened in the past?

Why the need to find and to explain gravity when it is all around us?

Why make a difference between time and gravity?


1) a common question that i get asked a lot, which basically boils down to "what's the point?". there are many answers to this question, the most important of which is that knowledge about the past helps us predict the future. the physics we gleam from the universe by examining very distant, very old objects is still relevant because the current evidence suggests that the physical laws of the universe do not change with time. this is known as Temporal Symmetry, and i comment on this earlier in the thread. such new physics also inevitably leads to new technology though a better understanding of the universe itself.

2) to understand something like gravity is to harness and use it. without a proper understanding of gravity we wouldn't have cellphones, GPS, the Hubble Telescope, or any understanding or knowledge of the existence of Legrange points. also, because it's cool.

3) i do not understand this question. time is a dimension of the universe, while gravity is an effect on and within it. to ask "why make a difference between time and gravity?" is akin to asking "why make a difference between length and acceleration?". the only answer i can give you is "because they are different..." :p
Selinate
#371 - 2012-03-23 20:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Selinate
Tsadkiel wrote:

ooooook, there are some fairly important corrections to this statement that i feel i need to make... i mean no offense by this

Quote:
The big problem with these is that none of them run continuously, they all pulse over and over again to produce fusion. These pulses use a LOT of energy. Hint, this is also why I scoffed at people in a thread a long, long time ago who suggested a space craft that runs off fusion of deuterium in free space. The energy required to acquire that hydrogen and fuse it? BHAHAHAHAHA.


i go over the details of different fusion processes (known as confinement methods) in post #307 of page 16 of this thread. Magnetic Confinement fusion using a TOKAMAK device is the current most promising method for using fusion as a source of energy. the ITER project, which is currently under construction, should, even within engineering uncertainties, produce a few percent more electrical power than it takes to run. this method is STABLE is is designed around maintaining a long term state of equilibrium within the confined plasma. the pulse reactions you are referring to are most likely Inertial Confinement, which is often used to study heavier or short lived fusion processes.

the method of fueling a ship using interstellar deuterium was first proposed in 1960 and is known as a Bussard Ramjet. the device that catches the local deuterium ions (and other fussable material) is known as a Ram Scoop, and is simply a set of two "loops" of magnetic field extending out in front of the ship. as the ship moves through the interstellar gas, the relative velocity causes the ions of the gas to accelerate along the field line into the ship. this can be done very cheaply in space if we can create super conducting materials that remain so at interstellar temperatures. the magnets can then simply be "charged" with current, which they will then hold until quenched. the feasibility of such a device is primarily reduced by the estimated deuterium densities of interstellar space, and not the technology itself. it had a great deal of support among the scientific community when it was first proposed, and was even mentioned by Carl Sagan in Cosmos. even it if cannot fuel a starship entirely on its own, the idea has merit just from an efficiency standpoint. do not cast it aside so casually.



TOKAMAK is not the most promising really. I'm not sure where you're getting that. Anywhere from the Japanese design to a dense plasma focus all have their own promise, but even the TOKAMAK at MIT doesn't run continuously and still needs to be pulsed instead of ran continuously. I wasn't talking about inertial confinement either.

Also, the ITER was supposed to be finished what, 5 years ago? A decade ago? I lost track, but the point is it's one of those never-ending projects that keeps on losing it's funding over political squabbles and such and hence ends up being postponed.

Also, I'd like some examples of super conducting materials that don't require to be set at extremely low temperatures, or a plasma which takes a lot of energy to sustain.
Selinate
#372 - 2012-03-23 20:57:58 UTC
Tsadkiel wrote:
oh my, such frustration! such tension! how entertaining =D

let's start at the end and work our way backwards, shall we?

first, these two statements...

Quote:
A magnetic field does not attract. It does not repel. That is an electric field. All particles have an electric field


and

Quote:
It is pretty pointless to use magnets on anything that does not somehow have a magnetic field, you know?


... are incorrect (the first being completely incorrect and the second being incorrect in the context the discussion concerning magnetic confinement fusion).

the force acting on a charged particle of charge q and velocity V in the presence of a magnetic field B is precisely F = qV X B where all bold face characters are vectors. there is actually much more going on in this equation, and there are other ways it can be expressed, but this is generally the most familiar to people. the value of F can be either positive or negative, and so the charged particle can experience both attractive and repulsive forces with respect to the source of the magnetic field. this confusion may be from the close relationship between electric and magnetic fields.

consider a charged particle traveling in a straight line that suddenly enters a region of space with a local magnetic field of B. when it enters this region it experiences a force proportional to its velocity and it begins to move along a curved trajectory. now, lets say we didn't know that this field was a magnetic field. knowing the mass, charge, and velocity of the particle we could still conclude that there IS a magnetic field present because of how the charge accelerates. HOWEVER, what if we decided to move with the charge, matching its initial velocity of V? from our perspective the charge now has a velocity of 0. when we enter the region of space with the field, we will see the charge begin to accelerate! because we see that the charge had a velocity of 0 from our perspective, we can measure the acceleration and conclude that it is under the effect of an ELECTRIC field!



How are charged particles repelled by a magnetic field? With a magnetic field in itself this is impossible. It does not "repel", if the magnetic field is weakened the charged particle simply moves further away but not by a force that repels it, nor does it really attract it directly towards the magnetic field line. This is suspicious. If you want to do what you mentioned in the second paragraph, fine, but the basic definition of a magnetic field is as you already said, which again, doesn't really attract or repel. In fact, a magnetic field on it's own does zero net work.
Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#373 - 2012-03-23 21:01:26 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Tsadkiel wrote:

ooooook, there are some fairly important corrections to this statement that i feel i need to make... i mean no offense by this

Quote:
The big problem with these is that none of them run continuously, they all pulse over and over again to produce fusion. These pulses use a LOT of energy. Hint, this is also why I scoffed at people in a thread a long, long time ago who suggested a space craft that runs off fusion of deuterium in free space. The energy required to acquire that hydrogen and fuse it? BHAHAHAHAHA.


i go over the details of different fusion processes (known as confinement methods) in post #307 of page 16 of this thread. Magnetic Confinement fusion using a TOKAMAK device is the current most promising method for using fusion as a source of energy. the ITER project, which is currently under construction, should, even within engineering uncertainties, produce a few percent more electrical power than it takes to run. this method is STABLE is is designed around maintaining a long term state of equilibrium within the confined plasma. the pulse reactions you are referring to are most likely Inertial Confinement, which is often used to study heavier or short lived fusion processes.

the method of fueling a ship using interstellar deuterium was first proposed in 1960 and is known as a Bussard Ramjet. the device that catches the local deuterium ions (and other fussable material) is known as a Ram Scoop, and is simply a set of two "loops" of magnetic field extending out in front of the ship. as the ship moves through the interstellar gas, the relative velocity causes the ions of the gas to accelerate along the field line into the ship. this can be done very cheaply in space if we can create super conducting materials that remain so at interstellar temperatures. the magnets can then simply be "charged" with current, which they will then hold until quenched. the feasibility of such a device is primarily reduced by the estimated deuterium densities of interstellar space, and not the technology itself. it had a great deal of support among the scientific community when it was first proposed, and was even mentioned by Carl Sagan in Cosmos. even it if cannot fuel a starship entirely on its own, the idea has merit just from an efficiency standpoint. do not cast it aside so casually.



TOKAMAK is not the most promising really. I'm not sure where you're getting that. Anywhere from the Japanese design to a dense plasma focus all have their own promise, but even the TOKAMAK at MIT doesn't run continuously and still needs to be pulsed instead of ran continuously. I wasn't talking about inertial confinement either.


from my perspective it is the most promising because it will be the first method to be implemented which may output more electrical power than it takes to run. the TOKAMAK design revolves around creating a stable fusion reaction, and ITER will have a fusion cycle lasting approximately 480 seconds or approximately 8 minutes. this in an eternity from the perspective of the physics occurring in the reactor itself, and so it is STABLE. the pulsing is not occurring as a physical requirement of the fusion process. it is instead the simple result of the devices high output and power consumption. no where did i sate that ITER would run continuously. i apologize for the confusion.
Selinate
#374 - 2012-03-23 21:06:15 UTC
Tsadkiel wrote:
Selinate wrote:
Tsadkiel wrote:

ooooook, there are some fairly important corrections to this statement that i feel i need to make... i mean no offense by this

Quote:
The big problem with these is that none of them run continuously, they all pulse over and over again to produce fusion. These pulses use a LOT of energy. Hint, this is also why I scoffed at people in a thread a long, long time ago who suggested a space craft that runs off fusion of deuterium in free space. The energy required to acquire that hydrogen and fuse it? BHAHAHAHAHA.


i go over the details of different fusion processes (known as confinement methods) in post #307 of page 16 of this thread. Magnetic Confinement fusion using a TOKAMAK device is the current most promising method for using fusion as a source of energy. the ITER project, which is currently under construction, should, even within engineering uncertainties, produce a few percent more electrical power than it takes to run. this method is STABLE is is designed around maintaining a long term state of equilibrium within the confined plasma. the pulse reactions you are referring to are most likely Inertial Confinement, which is often used to study heavier or short lived fusion processes.

the method of fueling a ship using interstellar deuterium was first proposed in 1960 and is known as a Bussard Ramjet. the device that catches the local deuterium ions (and other fussable material) is known as a Ram Scoop, and is simply a set of two "loops" of magnetic field extending out in front of the ship. as the ship moves through the interstellar gas, the relative velocity causes the ions of the gas to accelerate along the field line into the ship. this can be done very cheaply in space if we can create super conducting materials that remain so at interstellar temperatures. the magnets can then simply be "charged" with current, which they will then hold until quenched. the feasibility of such a device is primarily reduced by the estimated deuterium densities of interstellar space, and not the technology itself. it had a great deal of support among the scientific community when it was first proposed, and was even mentioned by Carl Sagan in Cosmos. even it if cannot fuel a starship entirely on its own, the idea has merit just from an efficiency standpoint. do not cast it aside so casually.



TOKAMAK is not the most promising really. I'm not sure where you're getting that. Anywhere from the Japanese design to a dense plasma focus all have their own promise, but even the TOKAMAK at MIT doesn't run continuously and still needs to be pulsed instead of ran continuously. I wasn't talking about inertial confinement either.


from my perspective it is the most promising because it will be the first method to be implemented which may output more electrical power than it takes to run. the TOKAMAK design revolves around creating a stable fusion reaction, and ITER will have a fusion cycle lasting approximately 480 seconds or approximately 8 minutes. this in an eternity from the perspective of the physics occurring in the reactor itself, and so it is STABLE. the pulsing is not occurring as a physical requirement of the fusion process. it is instead the simple result of the devices high output and power consumption. no where did i sate that ITER would run continuously. i apologize for the confusion.


This is exactly what I meant about pulsing though, though I'm not sure what you mean by "fusion cycle". Though the TOKAMAK might have been the first to be implemented, there are many other designs out there that use a magnetic confinement method which are just as promising.

Also, I have a hard time considering that stable from a power producing point of view. From what I remember, the main method that was considered in producing power from a fusion reactor was essentially just replacing the fission reactor with a fusion reactor in a common PWR. Having a reactor that increases and decreases in power in cycles like that? That's a terrible design, when you think of the long list of problems that would create in terms of managing the power output so that it has a constant frequency, even down to thermal stresses over the life of the system, ergo in order for it to really be considered stable for power, it needs to run continuously without stopping.
Caldari Citizen20090217
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#375 - 2012-03-23 21:07:57 UTC
Tsadkiel wrote:

the force acting on a charged particle of charge q and velocity V in the presence of a magnetic field B is precisely F = qV X B where all bold face characters are vectors. there is actually much more going on in this equation, and there are other ways it can be expressed, but this is generally the most familiar to people. the value of F can be either positive or negative, and so the charged particle can experience both attractive and repulsive forces with respect to the source of the magnetic field. this confusion may be from the close relationship between electric and magnetic fields.

consider a charged particle traveling in a straight line that suddenly enters a region of space with a local magnetic field of B. when it enters this region it experiences a force proportional to its velocity and it begins to move along a curved trajectory. now, lets say we didn't know that this field was a magnetic field. knowing the mass, charge, and velocity of the particle we could still conclude that there IS a magnetic field present because of how the charge accelerates. HOWEVER, what if we decided to move with the charge, matching its initial velocity of V? from our perspective the charge now has a velocity of 0. when we enter the region of space with the field, we will see the charge begin to accelerate! because we see that the charge had a velocity of 0 from our perspective, we can measure the acceleration and conclude that it is under the effect of an ELECTRIC field!


You said "when it enters this region it experiences a force proportional to its velocity ", implying that if it were possible to induce charge in objects moving in a magnetic field, then the objects could be deflected.

Many years ago I daydreamed a terribad idea for a deflector shield based on inducing charge in an incoming projectile, and using a magnetic field (or pulse maybe) in order to deflect it. I didn't have the physics knowledge or engineering skills to follow it up, so it got abandoned. How viable is this as a concept, and is it in any way practical with current technology?
Whitehound
#376 - 2012-03-23 22:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Tsadkiel wrote:
3) i do not understand this question.

Some of the first clocks humans invented were sun clocks, hour glasses and pendulums. Before then we did not talk about time and we did not measure it. At best did we look at the sun itself and its position to get a sense of time. Hour glasses and pendulums are devices that require gravity in order to work. Sun clocks use Earth's rotation and thus were independent from gravity, but if we were to improve the measurement would we possibly have to include the gravitation of the Sun and planets. The point however is that at the beginning of human time measurement were we not independent from gravity as we believe to be today.

Today we use atomic clocks for time measurement and we see time as another dimension. But we cannot move freely along this dimension. We also know from the theory of relativity that time slows down in strong gravitational fields. We only imagine moving back and forth in time just as we imagine travelling faster than light, but we know that both is not possible. It leads to the question if time actually is another dimension and how it is independent from other dimensions.

Hence the question, why do we make a difference between time and gravitation?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#377 - 2012-03-24 02:33:53 UTC
Whitehound, you have misquoted me. i said...

Quote:
3) i do not understand this question. time is a dimension of the universe, while gravity is an effect on and within it. to ask "why make a difference between time and gravity?" is akin to asking "why make a difference between length and acceleration?". the only answer i can give you is "because they are different..." :p


which i think answers your original question exactly. time and gravity are different things entirely. gravitational effects can indeed dilate time, just as an objects velocity and or acceleration affects the distance it has traveled.

your statement concerning time as non independent dimension is actually a question currently being worked on at fermilab. it is basically the question of time being an illusion of motion or visa versa. if you like i can try and comment on this, though i know little about the current experiments.
Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#378 - 2012-03-24 02:40:02 UTC
Caldari Citizen20090217 wrote:
Tsadkiel wrote:

the force acting on a charged particle of charge q and velocity V in the presence of a magnetic field B is precisely F = qV X B where all bold face characters are vectors. there is actually much more going on in this equation, and there are other ways it can be expressed, but this is generally the most familiar to people. the value of F can be either positive or negative, and so the charged particle can experience both attractive and repulsive forces with respect to the source of the magnetic field. this confusion may be from the close relationship between electric and magnetic fields.

consider a charged particle traveling in a straight line that suddenly enters a region of space with a local magnetic field of B. when it enters this region it experiences a force proportional to its velocity and it begins to move along a curved trajectory. now, lets say we didn't know that this field was a magnetic field. knowing the mass, charge, and velocity of the particle we could still conclude that there IS a magnetic field present because of how the charge accelerates. HOWEVER, what if we decided to move with the charge, matching its initial velocity of V? from our perspective the charge now has a velocity of 0. when we enter the region of space with the field, we will see the charge begin to accelerate! because we see that the charge had a velocity of 0 from our perspective, we can measure the acceleration and conclude that it is under the effect of an ELECTRIC field!


You said "when it enters this region it experiences a force proportional to its velocity ", implying that if it were possible to induce charge in objects moving in a magnetic field, then the objects could be deflected.

Many years ago I daydreamed a terribad idea for a deflector shield based on inducing charge in an incoming projectile, and using a magnetic field (or pulse maybe) in order to deflect it. I didn't have the physics knowledge or engineering skills to follow it up, so it got abandoned. How viable is this as a concept, and is it in any way practical with current technology?



inducing a charge in an object is certainly possible, but it would require you to physically move the charge from the source to the object. we can create coherent ion beams, so assuming the projectile can hold the charge, then, perhaps? the result would be soft scattering; the projectile would not immediately change direction as if it hit a wall, but rather, it would slowly change its trajectory along a smooth continuous path... in order to create effective shielding it would require massive MASSIVE field strengths. the exact values would depend on the momentum of the projectile and how much it needs to be scattered.
Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#379 - 2012-03-24 03:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsadkiel
Selinate

Quote:
TOKAMAK is not the most promising really. I'm not sure where you're getting that. Anywhere from the Japanese design to a dense plasma focus all have their own promise, but even the TOKAMAK at MIT doesn't run continuously and still needs to be pulsed instead of ran continuously. I wasn't talking about inertial confinement either

Also, the ITER was supposed to be finished what, 5 years ago? A decade ago? I lost track, but the point is it's one of those never-ending projects that keeps on losing it's funding over political squabbles and such and hence ends up being postponed

Also, I'd like some examples of super conducting materials that don't require to be set at extremely low temperatures, or a plasma which takes a lot of energy to sustain.


ITER was first conceived in 1985. it took 15 years for the project to reach an acceptable design point. the majority of the funding was secured in 2005, final agreements signed in 2006, and the organization legally came into existence in 2007. from 2008 to 2011 the focus of the project was on the construction of the site. the reactor itself is not scheduled to begin construction until 2015 and the first ignition of ITER is to take place in 2019. i have no idea where you got your information... the full timeline can be found on their official site here.

as for the super conductor and plasma bits concerning the Ram Scoop, i was being speculative. the current goal of superconducting material science is to get to room temperature super conductors. i don't see the creation of materials that are superconducting in the temperatures of space as not being that great a leap. my statements on the Ram Scoop we meant to point out that it is not entirely unfeasible and that the idea shouldn't be quickly dismissed.

Quote:

This is exactly what I meant about pulsing though, though I'm not sure what you mean by "fusion cycle". Though the TOKAMAK might have been the first to be implemented, there are many other designs out there that use a magnetic confinement method which are just as promising.

Also, I have a hard time considering that stable from a power producing point of view. From what I remember, the main method that was considered in producing power from a fusion reactor was essentially just replacing the fission reactor with a fusion reactor in a common PWR. Having a reactor that increases and decreases in power in cycles like that? That's a terrible design, when you think of the long list of problems that would create in terms of managing the power output so that it has a constant frequency, even down to thermal stresses over the life of the system, ergo in order for it to really be considered stable for power, it needs to run continuously without stopping.


i concede that a statement such as "most promising" is not quantitative, so i suppose we will just have to disagree here. it is completely feasible to generate continuous power from a pulsed system. for example, one could use the energy produced by a single fusion cycle (one of your pulses) to heat water. after enough pulses the water could boil, and the steam used to turn turbines in much the same way as a fission reactor functions. the creation of the coupling between ITER and the actual power grid of France will occur a while after its construction is complete. the immediate goal of ITER is to provide a platform for future fusion based research.

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How are charged particles repelled by a magnetic field? With a magnetic field in itself this is impossible. It does not "repel", if the magnetic field is weakened the charged particle simply moves further away but not by a force that repels it, nor does it really attract it directly towards the magnetic field line. This is suspicious. If you want to do what you mentioned in the second paragraph, fine, but the basic definition of a magnetic field is as you already said, which again, doesn't really attract or repel. In fact, a magnetic field on it's own does zero net work.


i already wrote about this. there is an explicit magnetic force. as i have shown, the force induced can be either attractive or repulsive. i never once said anything about work. magnetic fields do no work because the forces they induce are always perpendicular to the displacement of the object. "no work" is not the same as "no force".
Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#380 - 2012-03-24 03:30:26 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
How possible is FTL Travel? If it isn't why isn't it?

Though I believe that anything is possible through Science, because our understanding of the Universe is all Theory


i comment on possible FTL travel methods in post #260 on page 13. our current understanding of physical principles do not disallow FTL travel, merely the acceleration of a mass past the speed of light. Einstein is often misquoted about this. the energy required to move an object with mass at a specified velocity increases asymptotically towards infinity as you approach c. but there are ways around this through tricks wormholes and spacial compression and the like. check out the post! details are there