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Fanfest 2012 Breaking News: 3rd party development

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CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2012-03-23 16:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Navigator
3rd party developers will get access to a new API in addition to existing developer tools. The CREST API allows for read and write access to selected parts of EVE Online. At the Fanfest Devtrack, a developer preview was shown, to give developers a chance to prepare for this new tool. Developers will be able to apply for beta access before summer.

CCP plans to introduce a new license agreement for 3rd party developers, which will be required for using some developer tools like the new CREST APIs. The license will be free, and will have no new restrictions for 3rd party developers.

The shipviewer and starmap from the new eveonline website will be available as embeddable plugins, using custom data sources. More details coming in a dev blog in the coming days.
Aerieth
The Sleeper Sleuths
#2 - 2012-03-23 16:49:09 UTC
In before "I WANT TO CHANGE MY SKILLS WITHOUT EVER PLAYING EVE!"
Niraia
Starcakes
Cynosural Field Theory.
#3 - 2012-03-23 16:54:47 UTC
Sounds promising, and thanks for abandoning the license fee idea :)

Any idea when the devtrack recordings will be available?

♥
Dino Boff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-03-23 16:59:40 UTC
Will the new licence be more permissive?
Zaepho
Goosewarms
Tactical Hunters and Gatherers
#5 - 2012-03-23 17:00:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zaepho
Niraia wrote:

Any idea when the devtrack recordings will be available?


Try here http://bambuser.com/channel/ccpgames
Bunny Sweetcheeks
Boundless Hypocrisy
#6 - 2012-03-23 17:09:06 UTC
How does one become setup as a 3rd party developer? Will there be a certification or some process? Will it be those who already have get it (existing boys club)? Or as simple as "if you can write code you are a 3rd party developer"?
Luminocity
The Dark Revenants
PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
#7 - 2012-03-23 17:15:26 UTC
By my initial post which was made as a placeholder for further editing (which turned out to have been removed entirely by an admin - thanks much, whoever that was! Roll) I wanted to say good job on giving the 3rd party developers some love.

As of late there also seems to be an increase in dev presence in a lot of the forum threads (tech lab among other sections) as well which is highly appreciated. EVE is very unique in giving people with the interest the foundation for data interpretation and tool development to facilitate their specific interests and play styles. In my opinion this adds greatly to the sandbox.

-Lum
Avraham Avinu
Children of Noah
#8 - 2012-03-23 17:20:50 UTC
I"m super excited about this new API. RESTful, JSON, Oauth, read/write... it's about time. Programming against this API will provide a whole branch/opportunity for coders to have fun in Eve.
Zaepho
Goosewarms
Tactical Hunters and Gatherers
#9 - 2012-03-23 17:24:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zaepho
Bunny Sweetcheeks wrote:
How does one become setup as a 3rd party developer? Will there be a certification or some process? Will it be those who already have get it (existing boys club)? Or as simple as "if you can write code you are a 3rd party developer"?


To become an official 3rd party, you'll enter into a licensing agreement. The exact details will be released when this is necessary (i.e. when CREST is unleashed). for using the existing APIs and such, nothing new needs to be done.

Honestly watch the recorded session on the licensing and you'll have a good idea of what's up. Also you can check out the slides from the session at: https://plus.google.com/photos/104420254081686601186/albums/5723099856571622625
Bunny Sweetcheeks
Boundless Hypocrisy
#10 - 2012-03-23 17:29:30 UTC
Zaepho wrote:
Bunny Sweetcheeks wrote:
How does one become setup as a 3rd party developer? Will there be a certification or some process? Will it be those who already have get it (existing boys club)? Or as simple as "if you can write code you are a 3rd party developer"?


To become an official 3rd party, you'll enter into a licensing agreement. The exact details will be released when this is necessary (i.e. when CREST is unleashed). for using the existing APIs and such, nothing new needs to be done.


That's good to hear. Had flashbacks to a previous game where it was next to impossible to become a 3rd party developer.

Hopefully I can prove I'm not just a god damn hot space chic and build a kick ass tool or two. Blink
Elmanketticks
In Fidem
Outsmarted
#11 - 2012-03-23 19:36:03 UTC
I WANT TO CHANGE MY SKILLS WITHOUT EVER PLAYING EVE!

The State will not fall. Join us. Fight. Conquer.

edit: disregard that, the state has fallen.
Kandreath
De Re Metallica
#12 - 2012-03-24 03:43:39 UTC
Please imagine (if you will) a film where a crowd is gathered, some horrid 80's hair and consume then:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlowClap wrote:
..After bearing witness to a heartfelt speech or courageous performance, one single random person in the audience instinctively gradually rises to their feet and starts putting their hands together for the display. The person momentarily appears alone with his decision, that is until another person also rises to start clapping. Three more audience members follow suit. Then twelve more, then fifty, then a hundred, then a thousand. Before you know it, just about everyone in the audience is on their feet, clapping and cheering.


I doff my hat to CCP for the following:

  • For stopping the original concept all those months ago when the 3rd party developers voiced their objections.
  • For CCP taking their time and getting the concept right.
  • For realising that we do this for free and that "Transaction" != "money changes hands".
  • Offering something more in return for being bound by a more formal 3rd party developer agreement.


The person who nutted this one out deserves cake.

Now on to the details of the agreement (don't stuff that one up!...please!).
CCP Zero Gravitas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2012-03-24 11:31:32 UTC
The CREST devtrack presentation is here http://bambuser.com/v/2494220

The contactjs example client is here https://github.com/jimpurbrick/contactjs

The API documentation is here http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CREST_Documentation

I'm looking forward to seeing what you build with this!

CREST wrangler
Risingson
#14 - 2012-03-24 11:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Risingson
CCP Navigator wrote:
[...] The shipviewer and starmap from the new eveonline website will be available as embeddable plugins, using custom data sources. More details coming in a dev blog in the coming days.


Sounds fantastic ! ... I will wait for that dev blog but i hope those custom sources can be customized by 3rd party devs. Also i hope that there will be some sort of javascript event interactivity aswell as a flatten button. while being at a flatten button it would be cool if ccp would provide a strategic map via datadump where no overlaps occur like in printed version of strategic maps... that went beyond this threads topic though.
Seloena
Mighty Orca Inc
#15 - 2012-03-24 21:10:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Seloena
CCP Zero Gravitas wrote:
The contactjs example client is here https://github.com/jimpurbrick/contactjs

I tried this, but it sends me to: this site.
Any feedback on that?
Would like to try that by myself, not only by reading someones js code :p


And what we will do with that? My god.... i wish to be able do marketing on my android!
This can become true and you have no idea how happy i am now!
Very very big thnx to that guys!
Galen Kamari
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-03-25 03:57:11 UTC
Seloena wrote:
CCP Zero Gravitas wrote:
The contactjs example client is here https://github.com/jimpurbrick/contactjs

I tried this, but it sends me to: this site.
Any feedback on that?
Would like to try that by myself, not only by reading someones js code :p

It's how the log-in page will look for single sign-on server authentication. However, the demo was running on an internal test server, as I recall (I've been asleep a few times since then), so the SSO implementation there would be unlikely to have access to the live user credential database. That is, you won't be able to log in yet. Keep in mind that this a preview: the API isn't live yet, but what was demonstrated will be the first feature available for trials. For now, the sample code will just have to do for an idea of the processes (and the documentation that Zero Gravitas linked) until it's opened at closed beta.

Quote:

And what we will do with that? My god.... i wish to be able do marketing on my android!

If you go back through the DevTrack, Andie made it clear that there are different levels of exposure: universal data, communication and convenience features that don't affect the universe at large (like mail, for example), and gameplay features that directly affect the world at large. The example of a subtle difference between the latter two was the contact management features demonstrated: managing your own personal contacts only affects you, but corporation and alliance standings affects starbase defense settings, and jump bridge and outpost access. Market interaction would also be in the latter category and so something that would be limited in scope. This is especially because it would be vulnerable to botting.

Personally, I'll just be glad that CREST will result in a more sensible abstraction. Writing back is an awesome bonus.

-GK
CCP Zero Gravitas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#17 - 2012-03-25 09:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Zero Gravitas
Galen Kamari wrote:

It's how the log-in page will look for single sign-on server authentication. However, the demo was running on an internal test server, as I recall (I've been asleep a few times since then), so the SSO implementation there would be unlikely to have access to the live user credential database. That is, you won't be able to log in yet. Keep in mind that this a preview: the API isn't live yet, but what was demonstrated will be the first feature available for trials. For now, the sample code will just have to do for an idea of the processes (and the documentation that Zero Gravitas linked) until it's opened at closed beta.


Correct. The API isn't live or publicly accessible yet: we had to VPN in to the CCP network to demo it on Friday, but as we showed some of the code in the demo we wanted to make the whole example available so you could see the rest.

The API should be live in the next few months, but in the meantime you can have a look at the code and documentation and let us know if you see anything we could improve.

CREST wrangler
Seloena
Mighty Orca Inc
#18 - 2012-03-25 18:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Seloena
Galen Kamari wrote:

If you go back through the DevTrack, Andie made it clear that there are different levels of exposure: universal data, communication and convenience features that don't affect the universe at large (like mail, for example), and gameplay features that directly affect the world at large. The example of a subtle difference between the latter two was the contact management features demonstrated: managing your own personal contacts only affects you, but corporation and alliance standings affects starbase defense settings, and jump bridge and outpost access. Market interaction would also be in the latter category and so something that would be limited in scope. This is especially because it would be vulnerable to botting.

Personally, I'll just be glad that CREST will result in a more sensible abstraction. Writing back is an awesome bonus.

-GK

Well, my English is not perfect, so I could miss some informations.
Unfortunately I understand the botting danger :(

But please tell me in clear way:
How possible is that EvE players will be able to use some EvE features like adding skills, buy, sell, accept contracts or text chat with players that are online, outside the EvE client? (for example on Android)
Will you allow us to do that?

I don't ask exactly about new API, but for such ability - this could be done by extending EvE Gate or creating dedicated apps (apps by CCP, not by 3rd party) for mobile stuff.

For players like me, who are at home for 3-4 h / day during work week is very important.
I know that WoW players can do all that stuff now on their phones witch i think is more then cool thing :)
Some more discussion about that is available here

Thnx a lot for your answer!
Galen Kamari
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-03-25 19:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Galen Kamari
Seloena wrote:
How possible is that EvE players will be able to use some EvE features like adding skills, buy, sell, accept contracts or text chat with players that are online, outside the EvE client? (for example on Android)
Will you allow us to do that?

I'm sure you'll get a better answer this week from a Dev once things get back to normal after FanFest, but in the meantime...

Skills? Yes. Text chat? Yes. It's a feature that could eventually be included in the launcher according to CCP Topknot's Dev Blog (see the What about the future, man? section). Contracts? I don't know. As for when? Several months, at least.

Quote:
I don't ask exactly about new API, but for such ability - this could be done by extending EvE Gate or creating dedicated apps (apps by CCP, not by 3rd party) for mobile stuff.

The thing to remember is that these sorts of tools will be made with CREST in the future because this new API is being designed for both CCP and 3rd parties to use. Even apps from CCP will eventually use it, including new features in EVE Gate (but they will inevitably have features available to them that 3rd parties won't).

The other point is that even if it were CCP that implemented something a bit sensitive, perhaps using EVE Gate as you suggest, it's still a target for bots. Features can be abused through the website as well as the API itself, and so just as much caution is needed: if it's a bad idea to put it in the API, it's not necessarily a better idea to put it elsewhere outside the client. Unfortunate as all that may be. Sad

-GK
Seloena
Mighty Orca Inc
#20 - 2012-03-25 20:29:55 UTC
Galen Kamari wrote:
The other point is that even if it were CCP that implemented something a bit sensitive, perhaps using EVE Gate as you suggest, it's still a target for bots. Features can be abused through the website as well as the API itself, and so just as much caution is needed: if it's a bad idea to put it in the API, it's not necessarily a better idea to put it elsewhere outside the client. Unfortunate as all that may be. Sad

I understand that CCP will use CREST for their own apps, I was watching FanFest :]

I suggest that, because making bot using someones page/app (CCP f.e. EveGate) is harder than making own app/php_cron pointed to be a bot.
Also 1 developer (CCP) will do his best to prevent bots like it is done in web based MMOs - ssl / captchas / logout on weird actions / delay between actions and many more. You don't have any guarantee that 3rd party will do it.
This is why I think some of the features could go outside the EvE client into eve gate. Its just like doing other safe client. 3rd party will never be safe.

Other thing is that making bots for Eve client is not so hard. Little web search over macro stuff and your pc will do mining/miss/marketing for you. Ability to export market to file make that much easier.

So doesn't making ability to do f.e. marketing out of client just because it will allow players to use bots would be almost like switching off market in eve just because it is possible to use bots on it (don't take it exactly like that, because I understand difference in in-client and out-client and difficulty in making bots for them).
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