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Crime & Punishment

 
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goodbye (hisec) sandbox, hello daycare
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Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#41 - 2012-03-23 06:51:43 UTC
snypah~

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-03-23 07:04:42 UTC
Cen Eve wrote:
letting more people shoot each other without CONCORD = taking away the sandbox?

idgi


Your a moron as well.

Did you not read what the issue is that people are having?

Like many people said Mob Justice is fine. It the SEC STATUS HIT when you kill somebody while defending yourself from 20 people shooting at you. That is an issue.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-03-23 07:10:29 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Seriously, your alliance should consider changing its name to Self Tear Extraction and Reclamation Services.

QTF Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-03-23 07:35:25 UTC
kiki mo wrote:
LOL, more tears comments...keep em coming!

your alliance.... you know.... Roll

kiki mo wrote:

Also, for the other response about living as an outlaw...I'd almost agree with the possibility of actually being a true -10 'outlaw' as envisioned if these changes go through...but I'd like to propose then, that it be reciprical and balanced...thus, -10 players would actually be welcomed at lowsec stations where pirate factions control it...and positive standings players would be shot at by the station guns, the npc police and possibly the gate guns, depending on the security status of the system. On a humorous thought; spawn NPC police if positive-status players enter the system and attempt to 'patrol the pirates'. I hardly think it's logical that people are allowed to sit around Guristas stations and have offices there that are positive standing.

I'd think that the possible benefit to a 'balanced and reciprocal' system like this would actually have people voluntarily move to lowsec.

Thoughts?

i would say your picture looks little sharp. In real world pirate factions live "in the shadow". They don't advert their freedom. Because if they do this they get full scale war. Killing good people can lead to unneded attention from CONCORD. Other thing: why should CONCORD pay attention and place bounties for NPC pirate factions? After all pirate factions is a paint in the ... of a local authority.

Other thing: security status and corporation/faction standings. What if you are "good -10 cowboy" but your standings with said Guristas are -10 too? You want them to welcome you and even protect? It would be strange.

It would be better to make security status only matter for human players. And for anything NPC related we already have standings.
CONCORD is somehow different from other NPC tho...

Let's say leave sec statuses like current system. But remove sec status gringind with killing NPCs. Secutiry status is only for humans. Kill bad guys ("help the police") and you will get forgiven.

Make it so your faction standings help you when you have trouble. If you have fight in sov where you are +10 then faction can help you. Visit pirate space and you can even find yourself without docking permission and under fire of station guns. And the same when you -10 to local faction. Docking permissions included.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#45 - 2012-03-23 07:38:37 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

It would be better to make security status only matter for human players. And for anything NPC related we already have standings.
CONCORD is somehow different from other NPC tho...

As far as game mechanics are concerned, CONCORD standing = sec status. They are literally the exact same thing.

Also, literally hitler, just cuz

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#46 - 2012-03-23 07:40:25 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Xorv wrote:

Yes this is the part that really looks like they're pushing High Sec PvPers out of High Sec. Which would be fine if they also pushed lucrative PvE out of High Sec as well, but no sign of that happening yet. I'm still waiting for the complete story before final judgement, we haven't seen the Wardec changes yet.

The thing is you can't push people out of highsec, PVPers or otherwise. If you make it prohibitively difficult to engage in PVP in highsec the people whose entire playstyle is built around killing things in highsec will just quit and go and play another game. At that point the nullsec people who constantly advocate for changes that would make highsec PVP more difficult now, will whine that highsec is too safe and that no PVP happens there.


The reason many of those players are in High Sec is because the targets are there, and that was really my point. If CCP takes non consensual PvP out of High Sec they should also take out all the non newbie PvE. When I think of previous Sandbox MMORPGs I've played I can't think of any that have safe zones where you can also engage in PvE. Well Shadowbane had a newbie zone, but it had no value to characters after they'd spent a couple of hours there. No one would complain High Sec was too safe if all you could do there was trade, build things, and do newbie tutorial missions. I'm certainly not advocating all PvPers join Sov Nullsec alliances.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#47 - 2012-03-23 07:41:58 UTC
This idea makes Vlad sad.

I like being able flip a can and get a solo fight against a small number of opponents. I don't like dying to a huge blob. If I wanted that, I'd be back in lowsec. And sadly that seems to be what CCP is pushing for.

Well here's to hoping that they don't jack up the war dec mechanic when they rework that.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#48 - 2012-03-23 07:42:31 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Xorv wrote:

Yes this is the part that really looks like they're pushing High Sec PvPers out of High Sec. Which would be fine if they also pushed lucrative PvE out of High Sec as well, but no sign of that happening yet. I'm still waiting for the complete story before final judgement, we haven't seen the Wardec changes yet.

The thing is you can't push people out of highsec, PVPers or otherwise. If you make it prohibitively difficult to engage in PVP in highsec the people whose entire playstyle is built around killing things in highsec will just quit and go and play another game. At that point the nullsec people who constantly advocate for changes that would make highsec PVP more difficult now, will whine that highsec is too safe and that no PVP happens there.


The reason many of those players are in High Sec is because the targets are there, and that was really my point. If CCP takes non consensual PvP out of High Sec they should also take out all the non newbie PvE. When I think of previous Sandbox MMORPGs I've played I can't think of any that have safe zones where you can also engage in PvE. Well Shadowbane had a newbie zone, but it had no value to characters after they'd spent a couple of hours there. No one would complain High Sec was too safe if all you could do there was trade, build things, and do newbie tutorial missions. I'm certainly not advocating all PvPers join Sov Nullsec alliances.

I actually think they should make one of the gates near the EVE gate one way, and turn that pocket into a newbie zone. Can't get to jita, or even highsec, without leaving the zone, and if you explore around that area, even the names are perfect for it.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
discordigant
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-03-23 08:36:23 UTC
Karma Bad wrote:
BUT really , how much more punishment can highsec pvper's take.



BAHAHAHAHAHA High sec ganking is not PVP
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-03-23 08:39:28 UTC
discordigant wrote:
Karma Bad wrote:
BUT really , how much more punishment can highsec pvper's take.



BAHAHAHAHAHA High sec ganking is not PVP


It not about ganking. Alot of people in threat are morons it seems.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#51 - 2012-03-23 09:13:04 UTC
I'm not so sure about the sec status hits, that needs some work.

However, the suspect thing seems like it could work.

Would give the hisec people (and I admit I am one) a chance to defend themselves and 'their system' against the hisec greifer.
Because, lets be honest, preying on the weak, while it may be fun for some, its hardly balanced.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#52 - 2012-03-23 09:39:51 UTC
--Ninja salvaging has effectively dead since the Noctis crashed salvage prices.
Mission runner baiting, now on life support since the Orca nerfs - will be effectively dead.

The kill itself was rarely a problem, it was the time spent getting trying to get aggression. "Always bet on stupid" was the motto, however.

Well, CCP finally figured out how to save the stupid. Give them a life preserver that they can't figure out how to take off.
"Bear safety condom on = bear don't die."

But, like I said, that profession has been on life support for awhile. Ninja looting, alternative gameplay, RIP. Good job, CCP.


--People seem to be so focused on 'can flippers'. Can flipping has been a joke for a very long time....very low returns on your time, lots of boredom.

Suspect flags are about killing off ganking 'for profit'.

Most of this does not effect me directly, because I almost exclusively kill Exhumers and the loot is simply not that important....I'll carry on instapopping miners day in and day out.

But for those gankers who need to turn a profit - simply looting the wreck (that you killed) will allow anyone to attack you.

First, the RISK:
-spending hours scanning targets
-getting the kill (not guaranteed while ship/insurance loss IS guaranteed)
-cargo must drop....
-cargo must not be stolen by others...
and now....
-you must survive simply collecting the loot - on busy trade routes, no less.

Have fun scooping a successful freighter gank with another freighter.

The risks and inconveniences are being piled on. I'm not seeing any rewards on the other side of the equation.

I would have liked to see PODs drop implants.
I would like to see Orcas made scannable and drop loot - the corporate cargo bay is too easily exploited by haulers.

But I suppose CCP only caters to carebears in highsec these days....Roll
Sutskop
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-03-23 10:00:09 UTC
Karma Bad wrote:
I have come to love this game over the years..... BUT really , how much more punishment can highsec pvper's take.


"hisec pvp" is currently basically risk free, so stop whining, you hardcore outlaw hisec canflippers.
I welcome every change to aggro mechanics that make hisec a bit more multiplayer and not the grind place it is. Currently the only ones losing ships there are noobs silly enough to shoot back, the ones that weren't told to not shoot anybody in hisec but instead ignore their surrounding, and that is too boring and counterintuitive for a pvp game.
Sutskop
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-03-23 10:05:44 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:

First, the RISK:
-spending hours scanning targets
-getting the kill (not guaranteed while ship/insurance loss IS guaranteed)
-cargo must drop....
-cargo must not be stolen by others...


Those are not risks. You are using a throwaway ship from the beginning.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#55 - 2012-03-23 10:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
As Dr. Eggnog is currently saying: TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE LEAVING BEFORE THE 3 MONTH MARK.

Noobs are treated "horribly".

The primary reason being you guys can't even let them get a descent start.

Nobody hanging around =no profits for CCP=No EVE=No game for YOU at all.

It's a rather simple equation.

YOUR own extreme, out-of-control behaviors and playstyle have brought this about.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#56 - 2012-03-23 11:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Reppyk
Almost every reply in this thread is terrible. Sad

My feeling :
RR neutral will not end, but you won't see that much on Jita 44 (noob undocks, the sensor boosted legion points it, noob's friends undock and start melting the poor legion, the 11 neutral guardians try to save it, and the 231 neutral tornados around will alpha them one by one).

I'm disappointed :
- what about the flags and lowsec ? Goddamnit, what's the problem of being a "suspect" down there ?
- will sensor boosting make you a suspect ? or tracking links ?
- it's the highsec incursion nerf ? (suddenly, hundred of "suspect" logistics, everywhere !)
- still no word about corp jumping, dec shield, invulnerable pos
- no ponies.
- canflipping seriously ? nobody gives a **** about it
- the worst nerf ever for the gankers (good luck getting the loot from the wreck in an indus and making it alive).
- 1mn agression timer for the logis please. It would nerf a bit too the retards playing station games with carriers in low/00NPC (or even sov).

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#57 - 2012-03-23 11:04:02 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:

First, the RISK:
-spending hours scanning targets
-getting the kill (not guaranteed while ship/insurance loss IS guaranteed)

Thats not risk, thats effort. There is a difference, you know.

Risk is 'I might get blown up' or 'I might lose all my isk'

You have a guaranteed explosion of you ship, so no risk there.

Only thing you are actually risking is wasting your time, and well, you are already playing a game about internet spaceships, so I am pretty sure thats moot.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#58 - 2012-03-23 11:06:01 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Only thing you are actually risking is wasting your time, and well, you are already playing a game about internet spaceships, so I am pretty sure thats moot.
I have seen "a few" gankers getting podded.
(but that's not really the point of this thread)

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#59 - 2012-03-23 11:39:39 UTC
I don't see how you can have issue with incurring a sec penalty hit for a criminal act, especially considering any of these suspect initiations don't lower your sec enough to kick you out of high-sec. That's left to the GCC acts like suicide gangs.

The versus system sounds fundamentally damaging to low sec small gang and solo PVP initially but it remains to be seen as some of you high-sec PVPers have no intention of going to low/null as it is. I doubt it will draw away too many already in low/null and at any rate, it might be a good way for people to learn their chops before moving on to something more interesting like hunting down your targets and engaging larger numbers. I got my start in high-sec offering 1v1's so I don't fundamentally see a massive problem. I'd prefer there was still some element of risk involved since it was always fun dealing with surprise remote rep and other backup... forcing pure 1v1 kind of neuters the experience and encourages yet more of an expectation of safety in New Eden. A direction CCP really don't need to go down further.

The real problem with the proposed changes AS THEY STAND NOW is that flagging yourself to everyone does not mean you can fight everyone back should they choose to shoot you. There's no way that will go through as currently proposed though.

Overall, the changes look interesting and if they do it right it means high-sec PVP could be interesting, but will force the griefer noobs to learn to deal with numbers and face some risk when flipping noobs.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-03-23 11:55:32 UTC
kiki mo wrote:

Do you think that will work? It seems, to me at least, to be aimed at the ninjas, can-flippers and other ne'er-do-wells of hisec with the intention of creating a completely safe zone.
Are you kidding me? This is the creatiion of one of the greatest griefing tools, ever.

Swipe mission-crittical stuff in a n00bship, re-can it before you get shot-up, sit back and giggle as n00bs turn themselves in knots trying to decide whether to become criminals, or abandon their mission.

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.