EVE General Discussion

Alright so I've not been able to find a lot of details on this proposed change save a brief mention in the crime watch thread but in all the cheering over the doom of Neutral RR has anyone taken the time to consider the effects the addition of an aggression timer would have on legitimate uses of logistics?

In Null and low sec Neutral RR isn't a problem particularly null, you can proactively shoot who ever the hell you want to. So those of us who live outside of high sec are not affected by Neutral RR and never have been.

But the proposed change absent some sort of carve out for low and null sec will result in a serious nerf to the capabilities of Logistics ships and any other targeted boosting ships. Because while adding aggression to remote assistance will indeed stop a neutral logistics ship to not be able to dock in high sec it will also stop a friendly logi from jumping after covering their fleets retreat on a null/low sec gate.

The problem with adding aggression timers to neutral RR is that you end up adding aggression timers to in corp RR as well. So not only do you end up affecting neutral RR you end up screwing over all RR.

So the question is has anyone at CCP considered the effect that these changes will have on non-neutral RR? Because I'm going to be a tad miffed if the 30 days I spent training logi 5 suddenly becomes worthless just too appease high sec crybabies.

The way Greyscale said it would work is that you inherit the timer of the person you're repping. When he stops shooting for X seconds, you are both deaggressed. Logi fleets should be able to deaggress as soon as the last person they're repping stops aggressing.

But yes, I agree its not a good change for low and null sec.

-Liang

Warp away, run around for 60 seconds, then jump or dock? If you're pointed, that's what tanks and falcons are for?

Well that's not as awful as getting a fresh timer though it does leave you kind of screwed if they end up getting blown up, (unless their death eliminates the timer) also seems like it could get to be messy real fast if your repping multiple targets, I'm typically repping 3-5 different targets at a time when I'm flying logi often another scimi which adds further to the confusion do you inherit their timers too?

It doesnt really matter what color they are. ANYONE who is interfering/assisting in a battle should be fully committed to that battle themselves.

Currently you can just have a fleet of logistics docking/undocking endlessly and completely unkillable. This kind of activity really should be considered an exploit. I'm glad its being fixed.


The situation you presented says you've admitted you cant win the battle, so you want to use your logistics to repair you until your aggro timers have cleared, and run away. This is a major problem too. Its ******** that people can just run away like this. You engaged their fleet, and now you wish you didn't. Suffer the consequence. Try to save some of your fleet maybe by webbing/burning out of point range. But dont just **** around on the gate and wait out timers. thats silly.

Yeah that sounds real simple at first brush but that's the thing about unintended consequences they are generally unintended because someone didn't think through all the possibilities.

As I stated earlier in the thread you're adding a much more massive level of complexity that I think most people realize. Under the current system only a single aggressive act has to be tracked per pilot but what you are talking about here is potentially much more complex.

Consider how logi is used in large scale battles, you have 20 some odd logistical ships trying to catch people as they broad cast for reps. This means that in general as a scimi pilot you are providing reps up to 5 people at a time meaning that the system now has to track 5 different aggression timers, to further complicate matters you will also be repping other logistics ships who will likely be getting the timers of 5 other ships likely including another logi or two. and that's just scimitars and Onieros it gets even more complex with Basi's and Gardians who have to maintain a cap chain to function.

Also Remote boosting includes stuff other than repping meaning this same mechanic will get applied to Remote sensor boosters and cap transfers and tracking links and every form of targeted boosting.

But of course nothing could possibly go wrong with all that CCP is working with such elegant well documented code after all and never push out half arsed poorly tested crap.

Like I said I could give a **** about neutral RR I don't think it's as awful a thing as most people make it out to be, but I don't use the mechanic and as I don't ever plan on moving back to high sec I'm not particularly worried about it. But I am concerned about how the changes in mechanics meant to eliminate it could effect how we use it in parts of the game where neutral RR isn't a concern.

You inherit the flag of the person you RR. If that person is defending himself against an attacker, he has no flag, and thus, neither will you ( I think).

I really don't see why this is a problem though.

Also: don't act like a crybaby yourself about having a 'wasted' skills at level 5. That happens to everyone at some point, and more often then not you eventually find some use for it again.

Find more competent fleet members?

Same cry as when they changed it so dictors could not do a drop and jump.

Repping is the same as shooting. You are aiding the battle thus should have to deal with the same consequences.

Yeah because dictors have to hang around on grid to do their job.