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New Skill proposal: Strategic Pricing

Author
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-03-23 02:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Whippy
The more I think about this idea the more I like it. I like the OP's vision best. It needs to be far more dynamic then some extra info in the market screen.

Although I also agree with what someone else said. It doesn't need to be a skill, it should just be part of how the market works.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Undistinguished Gray Suit
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-03-23 02:21:11 UTC
A simpler solution that would achieve most of the OPs goal would be to simply add corporation and alliance market tabs. You wouldn't be able to list the same thing for different prices, but you could list one stack on your corp market at a reduced rate and another on the public market at a higher rate. Perhaps people involved in faction war could have a separate faction market.

Of course, this doesn't fix the spy problem Lyris raised, but nothing really will without making funamental and game wrecking changes to EVE.
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#23 - 2012-03-23 02:50:57 UTC
That would also work, Gray Suit. You are correct though: nothing will ever solve the issue of neutral alts wrecking havoc and getting around certain mechanics. That's just a part of EVE, and one reason I enjoy living in low and null sec so much.

Share this thread with your friends! I hope we can get a lot of discusssion from the player base at large and refine this concept. Maybe CCP will take notice?
Potato Jim
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-03-23 11:53:19 UTC
to the OP

What stops me, your enemy, from creating an alt and getting him into your militia, and buying all your cheap stuff.

what stops me, your good old friend in the militia(not an alt of your enemy) to buy out all your cheap stuff and melt it, either myself or with my alt.

you *assume* that everyone blue to you is your friend. it might be the "general" case, but that makes spies even more uber dangerous.

an alliance has a stockpile of ready-to-use cheap mods and fits for anyone with standing 10.
all the spy has to do is get comfy enough and get that standing, BAM, you clean up ALL the market orders, make a HUGE markup profit to fund your ongoing(or future to-be) war.

So now you need roles - the ability to buy from market orders done by your corp.
and to limit the amounts of transactions you can do at a cheap price. either limited by volume of isk or items.

for example- you might want to sell only to individual users, not to bulk buyers - so you can now think about limiting the amount a pilot can buy to 4 per day(that's a HUGE hassle, impractical and broken).

this is all fun and games on the meta level of jita, but on smaller alliances/corporation wars it can be a mess.
The amount of micro-manage on said orders would have to be insane to make sure no one "accidently" gets the standing to do so.

And again to the OP - you're playing the market game all wrong, the enemy keeps buying all your stock? good, dump loads and loads of ships into said station with various alts at various prices, you MUST BE ABOVE MINERAL PRICE, or anyone and i mean anyone would just buy and melt it. if the enemy wants to drive your ship prices over 50% of their regional average, that's fine. you're still making money. it would be much simpler to just give isk to the people who buy ONE thrasher from your alliance at the inflated price as compensation.
when your enemy is stuck with 1000 overpriced ships he can't sell, you won the market pvp.

*unless you think all your militia members are one big happy family - in which case. meh.*
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#25 - 2012-03-23 13:56:21 UTC
Again, the issue of alts and spies is brought. As I sit here and watch the Fanfest stream, it's become clear to me that CCP is abundantly aware of alts/spies and how they can be used to bypass mechanics. The simple answer is: there is nothing anyone can do to counter alts or spies. As I mentioned with alts, I'd observe their flipping and set them red. I'm the sort of player that actually uses the "notes" section of the "Show Info" window, and I WILL know it's a market-flipping alt. Same goes with spies or inter-alliance/militia competition.

And that's why I think this should be a skill-based thing. Have prereqs so that it takes longer than two weeks to acquire this skill. Then you can no longer use a throw-away trial account alt to screw over the market. In other words you force someone to spend time and real-life money or ISK for PLEX just to undercut you (which would discourage the activities you mentioned because it would lower their profits considerably! Imagine shelling out $14.95 or ISK for a PLEX every time you need to make a market-flipping alt)

"How do you promote trust, especially in a sandbox known for players stabbing each other in the back?"
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#26 - 2012-03-23 14:03:21 UTC
And I've no clue why you keep rambling about selling above mineral price. I am doing so. So stop bringing that up.

I do not think you understand the proposal. We should be allowed to deny sales to certain individuals or entities as we see fit. As it currently stands, you just throw something up on the market and only find out who's buying from you after the fact. Let us use the anecdote of a lemonade stand. If I am selling cups of lemonade for $1.00 and you buy five units, I gain by $5.00. Excellent, great. But say I only had five units to begin with, so I'm now out of stock. Next you set up your own stand and resell at $1.50. You suddenly profit by $2.50, and you weren't the producer of the product! Now, this is a smart move on your part. However, now that I have observed this activity I would logically no longer sell to you so I can secure my place in the market.

In EVE, you can't do that. You cannot choose who to sell to, or rather you can't decline a sale to a competitor/enemy.
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#27 - 2012-04-08 19:33:07 UTC
A bit of an update. I warned about the behaviour that would result if industrialists and traders aren't allowed to price discriminate or choose who to sell to.

And it is happening.

The Rens "trader" known as Miilla has been toying around with prices of all sorts of items for ages now, able to manipulate prices at will. I watched as she toyed with Maelstrom prices yesterday, on a whim. Why is she able to do this? Simple: she can buy competitors out because they cannot deny sale to her.

I do hope CCP notices how bad this can be for the economy and lets us have some discretion in who we sell to. If the problems persists I could simply see people turning to word-of-mouth trading or bartering. Gone will be the days when we can trust the market system at all, and instead the industrialist who builds, say, a Maelstrom will ship it to Rens and sit in local saying "Selling Maelstrom for X" and wait for a buyer (because if a public contract is made they can still be bought out).

PLEASE implement a way for us to deny sales to our competitors and enemies! If one person wants to crash the market system the rest of the market participants should simply be allowed to ignore them and cut off all business ties.
Bai'xao Meiyi
#28 - 2012-04-09 13:47:04 UTC
Today the Rens manipulator miilla bumped Hurricane prices up to 65 million isk. She has also manipulated the drake, stabber, tornado and hulk prices. Again, this is a needed feature for a free and fluid market. This is a common sense solution to the problem of total market control of the ridiculously rich.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-04-09 16:19:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Bai'xao Meiyi wrote:
Today the Rens manipulator miilla bumped Hurricane prices up to 65 million isk. She has also manipulated the drake, stabber, tornado and hulk prices. Again, this is a needed feature for a free and fluid market. This is a common sense solution to the problem of total market control of the ridiculously rich.

i can confirm this. she even admitted it in local.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#30 - 2012-04-09 16:56:42 UTC
Sounds like a good week to ship 'canes to Rens for a profit, but I still like the OP.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Rimase
#31 - 2012-04-09 18:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
The idea is plausible. The concept is not. I understand that purpose yet it just seems misplaced. The market rules are not submittal to the will of change of a capsuleer ever.
I tend to the idea of this though I think there's plentiful of flaws. Constructive feedback time!
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  • Rather than have the Militant player or any player be the decider, you'd have the solarsystem's sovereignty make this decision for you thus forcing you to sell your militarial goods at your own Empire's stations. This will allow your enemy Militants to purchase, keeping economy flowing, though they cannot dock the station to pick-up! They'd have to find alternative to collect.
  • :: KEY: Buyers must be aware of the order's strategic significance after purchase. Before purchase is entirely player-knowledge = power. The strategy is not the Order - the strategy is the Station they're sold from.
    (A new color-filter must be introduced to Militia players browsing their Assets they cannot dock at!)
    :: KEY: This gives Couriers a new role in life! A variation of Smuggling!
    (Not contraband but effects standing if somehow cover-blown)

  • The skill has to be a foundation of the mastering required for the player, which tends to be what EVE's player-skill is backed by (Skill-training & Player-learning). As I've said the skill required is to know where to place them against your enemy Militia yet still make a profit. By knowing where they're purchasing you can commit to selling at a neighbouring system(s) at attractive prices.
  • ::'The skill will allow intel of your warring enemy's transactions on the map of where they're purchasing from and what they're purchasing.

    RESULTS: You make ISK, enemy cannot collect and you're rewarded with LP (if you're Milita), and with enough strategic sell orders (cascaded Assets) and buy orders (trafficked from enemy possession to you) your enemy won't have the item available to them locally. If their none available for the enemy, it's quite possible a faction warfare agent would ask for a player-hauler to Convoy from one neighbouring Region! AWESOME!

  • EVE Fanfest proposed stations be under player control. Is this true? This idea can tie-in to Militia (Imperial) and Corporate (Business) wars. Player-owned low-sec and high-sec stations arrested by their associated corporation would allow for an extension from Militia-based Suppressive Trades to additional Standings-based player-corporation Suppressive Trades.
  • To me, this is quite f****** awesome for the future of EVE! Shocked

  • This maybe questions the name of the skill. What is actually going on here? You're congesting the market with multiple orders, cutting the prices against the enemy so the enemy will purchase yours. They would not be able to collect from strategic location and all enemies would be the same, and the goods are cascaded against your enemy though the market item could be devalued for the enemy and friendlies thereafter. Careful military-level decision-making requiring due-diligence.
  • :: Skill: Tactical Commerce

  • The proposed idea could very much totally devastate fluency of trades as players segregate to their own empire sovereignty-system stations. Standings would be an escalated grind and that fact that it's intended to compete against Militia ought to have you be part of faction warfare, too. However, it could spread players out of 'trade capitals' if Faction Warfare was to ever become so very much populated than ever. Things go against the idea and adds way to much extra ass-sitting market-managing. Something new has to show...
  • -

    Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!

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