These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Banned by GM for RRing sentry drones. Dev verdict required

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ghoest
#81 - 2012-03-22 12:49:30 UTC
Generally I dont believe "we were banned" posters.


But I do know about the CCP staff and this is exactly the type of stupidity I expect from them.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Herold Oldtimer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-03-22 12:58:14 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
No it isn't, you are confusing 2 different issues here.

What the OP has described does not require any automation of any kind. It is simply using existing game mechanics.

You can not compare something which requires no automation or input from the player past the initial launching of drones and reppers to something which does require constant input from a player like mining or missioning which are what bots are used for.

So again saying something only becomes an exploit because you have been doing after x amount time is just plain wrong.

Whether you should be able to do something this is a separate argument, the fact is you can and many people do in missions.

Unless CCP has stated that using drones to kill NPC's whilst having a stable tank and ability to RR your drones is a exploit, there they have done nothing wrong.

Now if its a case of a GM has repeatedly tried to convo them and has received no reply and has then presumed they must be using some sort of automation tool then that just shows an alarming lack of in game knowledge on behalf of the GM.



I'm not confusing anything since I don't have anything to confuse this with. I'm going by assumtion that they did this for far longer than what is "normal" and including a supposed scenario where they are not at their computer either.

They are then generating income by not doing anything. The game is doing it for them. Same as with bots. The player is not doing anything himself, but are having a program do it for him.

If they did other stuff aswell. Like checking market for stuff to buy or to sell, chatting with others ingame, or using the ingame browser while it is going on in the background then it is fine, they are leaving proof that the activity with the ratting is not the only thing that is going on. They are playing.

If they sert this up, then let this go for a whole day, then it is beginning to become a problem. They are not playing but are still generating income.

Cloaks are different because you are not generating any income then.
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#83 - 2012-03-22 13:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Xpaulusx
I'm not going to get overly critical of CCP, in general they have put the game in the right direction but with incidents like this, it puts doubt into alot of minds as to what the ground rules are, therefore the need for clarification. same sitiuation with the triple webbing of freighters which up till now, there was no problem and was an accepted game mechanic. Closing the barn door after the horses leftRoll

......................................................
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-03-22 14:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Prince Kobol wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
the important question to answer here that so far has been ignored completelly:

Has any character previously had received warnings for previous actions or has been temporarely banned in the past?

If so, then you should have walked a fine line since then.....


This is only of any relevance if the act of sitting in space killing NPC's with your drones whilst repping them is deemed to be an exploit.


to answer your question.
well it does matter if you can do this endlessly without any effort. Its basically a loop hole! a loop hole is an exploit and its no different from the recent web exploit.

you cant just make endless isk without doing anything whats so ever. Imagine if there was no down time....you could do this for months. Its wrong! If you moved around and salvagd mean while then its great cos you are actually doing something. Its the same like mining and jetting into can. You are doing something. - This part is crutial.

if you had previously had a warning, then do the above its just inviting a ban cos you went from a warning to a loop hole...i do expect you should get banned. Dont try to pass this loop hole as JUST remote repping! Cos its not
OmniBeton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-03-22 14:38:47 UTC
Herold Oldtimer wrote:

They are then generating income by not doing anything. The game is doing it for them. Same as with bots. The player is not doing anything himself, but are having a program do it for him.


LOL ...

Buy tons of any item, cheap.
Set up 1-month sell order with attractive, yet higher that you bought for, price.
Log out and wait a month.
You are not playing.
You are doing nothing.
Game is making isk for you.
Return after a month.
Get banned ? Don't think so.
Signal11th
#86 - 2012-03-22 14:39:10 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
the important question to answer here that so far has been ignored completelly:

Has any character previously had received warnings for previous actions or has been temporarely banned in the past?

If so, then you should have walked a fine line since then.....


This is only of any relevance if the act of sitting in space killing NPC's with your drones whilst repping them is deemed to be an exploit.


to answer your question.
well it does matter if you can do this endlessly without any effort. Its basically a loop hole! a loop hole is an exploit and its no different from the recent web exploit.

you cant just make endless isk without doing anything whats so ever. Imagine if there was no down time....you could do this for months. Its wrong! If you moved around and salvagd mean while then its great cos you are actually doing something. Its the same like mining and jetting into can. You are doing something. - This part is crutial.

if you had previously had a warning, then do the above its just inviting a ban cos you went from a warning to a loop hole...i do expect you should get banned. Dont try to pass this loop hole as JUST remote repping! Cos its not



Personally I don;t see the problem? Yet again (OB if the OP is being honest) it's just another example of someone thinking outside the box and getting screwed for it. Imagine what EVE would really be like if nobody ever tried to do something different.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Prince Kobol
#87 - 2012-03-22 14:40:43 UTC
Herold Oldtimer wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
No it isn't, you are confusing 2 different issues here.

What the OP has described does not require any automation of any kind. It is simply using existing game mechanics.

You can not compare something which requires no automation or input from the player past the initial launching of drones and reppers to something which does require constant input from a player like mining or missioning which are what bots are used for.

So again saying something only becomes an exploit because you have been doing after x amount time is just plain wrong.

Whether you should be able to do something this is a separate argument, the fact is you can and many people do in missions.

Unless CCP has stated that using drones to kill NPC's whilst having a stable tank and ability to RR your drones is a exploit, there they have done nothing wrong.

Now if its a case of a GM has repeatedly tried to convo them and has received no reply and has then presumed they must be using some sort of automation tool then that just shows an alarming lack of in game knowledge on behalf of the GM.



I'm not confusing anything since I don't have anything to confuse this with. I'm going by assumtion that they did this for far longer than what is "normal" and including a supposed scenario where they are not at their computer either.

They are then generating income by not doing anything. The game is doing it for them. Same as with bots. The player is not doing anything himself, but are having a program do it for him.

If they did other stuff aswell. Like checking market for stuff to buy or to sell, chatting with others ingame, or using the ingame browser while it is going on in the background then it is fine, they are leaving proof that the activity with the ratting is not the only thing that is going on. They are playing.

If they sert this up, then let this go for a whole day, then it is beginning to become a problem. They are not playing but are still generating income.

Cloaks are different because you are not generating any income then.


You are because a bot replicates human actions, in the OP's case no actions are being replicated because no action is required, there for nothing like a bot.

I am not saying that this is a good game mechanic or that it does not need changing but the fact is that for years people have been doing the exactly same thing with missions and there has never been an issue.

You can not allow people to use this method during missions but then ban them for using the same game mechanic killing NPC's
Prince Kobol
#88 - 2012-03-22 14:45:57 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
the important question to answer here that so far has been ignored completelly:

Has any character previously had received warnings for previous actions or has been temporarely banned in the past?

If so, then you should have walked a fine line since then.....


This is only of any relevance if the act of sitting in space killing NPC's with your drones whilst repping them is deemed to be an exploit.


to answer your question.
well it does matter if you can do this endlessly without any effort. Its basically a loop hole! a loop hole is an exploit and its no different from the recent web exploit.

you cant just make endless isk without doing anything whats so ever. Imagine if there was no down time....you could do this for months. Its wrong! If you moved around and salvagd mean while then its great cos you are actually doing something. Its the same like mining and jetting into can. You are doing something. - This part is crutial.

if you had previously had a warning, then do the above its just inviting a ban cos you went from a warning to a loop hole...i do expect you should get banned. Dont try to pass this loop hole as JUST remote repping! Cos its not


Where does it say anywhere in the EULA/TOS that you can not make is passively?

Over the last couple of month due to RL I have only been able to log into the game to update my skills and that is it and yet I have made hundreds of millions of isk, why, because I set multiple sell orders.

Should I be banned because I made my isk when I was sitting in front of my PC for hours on end?

This is not a loop hole, its a game mechanic, unless you are saying that all those mission runners should also be banned for doing the very same thing
Postradamus
Asstronauts
#89 - 2012-03-22 14:58:34 UTC
5 pages, 1 email to CCP internal affairs, 1 PM to CCP Guard, no response of any kind
OfBalance
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-03-22 15:30:59 UTC
OmniBeton wrote:

LOL ...

Buy tons of any item, cheap.
Set up 1-month sell order with attractive, yet higher that you bought for, price.
Log out and wait a month.
You are not playing.
You are doing nothing.
Game is making isk for you.
Return after a month.
Get banned ? Don't think so.


LOL ...

Buy tons of any item, without a clue.
Set up 1-month sell order instead of 3 because lol :smug:
Log out and wait a month.
Someone else lists the same items 0.01 isk lower than your order.
You are not playing.
You are doing nothing.
You are not making isk.
No return after a month.
Get bent? Yes.
Rui Manii
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-03-22 15:31:04 UTC
Postradamus wrote:
5 pages, 1 email to CCP internal affairs, 1 PM to CCP Guard, no response of any kind


They are all at Fanfest.... they will get back to your tears on Monday I would imagine.
Postradamus
Asstronauts
#92 - 2012-03-22 15:44:11 UTC
Rui Manii wrote:
Postradamus wrote:
5 pages, 1 email to CCP internal affairs, 1 PM to CCP Guard, no response of any kind


They are all at Fanfest.... they will get back to your tears on Monday I would imagine.


I hope so. My tears are delicious and they are missing out
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-03-22 15:58:43 UTC
Signal11th wrote:

Personally I don;t see the problem? Yet again (OB if the OP is being honest) it's just another example of someone thinking outside the box and getting screwed for it. Imagine what EVE would really be like if nobody ever tried to do something different.


i got no beef with innovation or thinking outside the box. I support it and always amazed at it. Having said that, i do not support botting or using exploits or loop holes specially when there is no risk to you and you can make a tone of isk without no interraction. Do what ever your want to do, but "DO" something.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-03-22 16:01:12 UTC
Postradamus wrote:
5 pages, 1 email to CCP internal affairs, 1 PM to CCP Guard, no response of any kind


Just an FYI, sending unsolicited private messages to devs, GMs, ISD and etc... is counter productive. It DECREASES the chances that you will have your petition handled the way you want it to.

Use the proper channels:

1) Petition
2) Escalate Petition

Contact Internal Affairs *ONLY* if you believe a CCP employee is abusing their position. DON'T contact them if you only disagree with the GMs ruling.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-03-22 16:14:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Prince Kobol wrote:

Where does it say anywhere in the EULA/TOS that you can not make is passively?

Over the last couple of month due to RL I have only been able to log into the game to update my skills and that is it and yet I have made hundreds of millions of isk, why, because I set multiple sell orders.

Should I be banned because I made my isk when I was sitting in front of my PC for hours on end?

This is not a loop hole, its a game mechanic, unless you are saying that all those mission runners should also be banned for doing the very same thing


you are mistaking the issue. Its not about doing it massively. Its about doing it "without" any effort.
yes spam the market/contracts as much as you want with all th stuff you want, i dont care.
i got a life too and i dont spent as much time either as i want.

its a "loop hole in the game mechanic" otherwise you wouldnt get banned! So there is a loop hole in it. Dont try and twist stuff around. You know what i mean. You may not like it, but there it is...Its defenetly not intended.

I dont believe PVE was designed to be a passive (do nothing and be rewarded). This is why all forms of bots are been hunted down. Any bot, from pve bots to market bots to transportation bots. It promotes doing nothing. CCP key word is been PROACTIVE!
Signal11th
#96 - 2012-03-22 16:26:29 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Personally I don;t see the problem? Yet again (OB if the OP is being honest) it's just another example of someone thinking outside the box and getting screwed for it. Imagine what EVE would really be like if nobody ever tried to do something different.


i got no beef with innovation or thinking outside the box. I support it and always amazed at it. Having said that, i do not support botting or using exploits or loop holes specially when there is no risk to you and you can make a tone of isk without no interraction. Do what ever your want to do, but "DO" something.



He is doing something, making isk without any work, I imagine we all would prefer to do that in real life if we could.

From what I can see you bemoaning the fact that "somebody has to click something"

What's the difference between me afking in a carrier(apart from the obvious 0.0 hazards) in a sanctum (not that I actually do this presently but have done in the past),

What happens if I get somebody else to do the clicking for me? Is that against the rules? As with other people I usually setup some trades for month long exposure and leave them to buy/sell I'm making isk without ever clicking anything for a long time? What's the difference?

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Prince Kobol
#97 - 2012-03-22 16:27:06 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

Where does it say anywhere in the EULA/TOS that you can not make is passively?

Over the last couple of month due to RL I have only been able to log into the game to update my skills and that is it and yet I have made hundreds of millions of isk, why, because I set multiple sell orders.

Should I be banned because I made my isk when I was sitting in front of my PC for hours on end?

This is not a loop hole, its a game mechanic, unless you are saying that all those mission runners should also be banned for doing the very same thing


you are mistaking the issue. Its not about doing it massively. Its about doing it "without" any effort.
yes spam the market/contracts as much as you want with all th stuff you want, i dont care.
i got a life too and i dont spent as much time either as i want.

its a "loop hole in the game mechanic" otherwise you wouldnt get banned! So there is a loop hole in it. Dont try and twist stuff around. You know what i mean. You may not like it, but there it is...Its defenetly not intended.

I dont believe PVE was designed to be a passive (do nothing and be rewarded). This is why all forms of bots are been hunted down. Any bot, from pve bots to market bots to transportation bots. It promotes doing nothing.


However its a mechanic that has been used for years in missions.

If what the OP has stated is the truth, then it should mean all those people who mission afk in their domi's and rattlesnake's should also now be banned from here on in.

Also you tell me how the game needs to be changed to stop people from doing this and how it can be enforced?

Are we now saying people are not allowed to RR their drones?

Does it mean that if you go afk at any point you can now be banned?

Or do we say its okay so long as you do not not do this for some arbitrary amount of time that somebody has picked out of thin air?

Is CCP going to improve the AI so they are not so dumb? Are they going to make so it becomes impossible to RR drones?

If the the person in question comes back every hour to scoop a few worthless wrecks will that make it okay?

Of course these thread could be entirely pointless because the OP is full of ****, we don't know but if we presume he is tellign the truth, its these kinds of action that give GM's a very bad name.

You can not ban somebody because they are using a valid game mechanic that has been used for years in missions and have adapted it for there own purpose.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-03-22 16:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Signal11th wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Personally I don;t see the problem? Yet again (OB if the OP is being honest) it's just another example of someone thinking outside the box and getting screwed for it. Imagine what EVE would really be like if nobody ever tried to do something different.


i got no beef with innovation or thinking outside the box. I support it and always amazed at it. Having said that, i do not support botting or using exploits or loop holes specially when there is no risk to you and you can make a tone of isk without no interraction. Do what ever your want to do, but "DO" something.



He is doing something, making isk without any work, I imagine we all would prefer to do that in real life if we could.

From what I can see you bemoaning the fact that "somebody has to click something"

What's the difference between me afking in a carrier(apart from the obvious 0.0 hazards) in a sanctum (not that I actually do this presently but have done in the past),

What happens if I get somebody else to do the clicking for me? Is that against the rules? As with other people I usually setup some trades for month long exposure and leave them to buy/sell I'm making isk without ever clicking anything for a long time? What's the difference?


you can afk all you want in a sanctum but that sanctum has an end, belt rats dont.
The second part i think there is a breach in the rules. I am not sure exactly how the rules work in this case but i would be very carefull in the use of somebody elses account. I will suggest you to research on this part as i believe you can get banned.
BUT i am not sure here....
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-03-22 16:43:48 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

Where does it say anywhere in the EULA/TOS that you can not make is passively?

Over the last couple of month due to RL I have only been able to log into the game to update my skills and that is it and yet I have made hundreds of millions of isk, why, because I set multiple sell orders.

Should I be banned because I made my isk when I was sitting in front of my PC for hours on end?

This is not a loop hole, its a game mechanic, unless you are saying that all those mission runners should also be banned for doing the very same thing


you are mistaking the issue. Its not about doing it massively. Its about doing it "without" any effort.
yes spam the market/contracts as much as you want with all th stuff you want, i dont care.
i got a life too and i dont spent as much time either as i want.

its a "loop hole in the game mechanic" otherwise you wouldnt get banned! So there is a loop hole in it. Dont try and twist stuff around. You know what i mean. You may not like it, but there it is...Its defenetly not intended.

I dont believe PVE was designed to be a passive (do nothing and be rewarded). This is why all forms of bots are been hunted down. Any bot, from pve bots to market bots to transportation bots. It promotes doing nothing.


However its a mechanic that has been used for years in missions.

If what the OP has stated is the truth, then it should mean all those people who mission afk in their domi's and rattlesnake's should also now be banned from here on in.

Also you tell me how the game needs to be changed to stop people from doing this and how it can be enforced?

Are we now saying people are not allowed to RR their drones?

Does it mean that if you go afk at any point you can now be banned?

Or do we say its okay so long as you do not not do this for some arbitrary amount of time that somebody has picked out of thin air?

Is CCP going to improve the AI so they are not so dumb? Are they going to make so it becomes impossible to RR drones?

If the the person in question comes back every hour to scoop a few worthless wrecks will that make it okay?

Of course these thread could be entirely pointless because the OP is full of ****, we don't know but if we presume he is tellign the truth, its these kinds of action that give GM's a very bad name.

You can not ban somebody because they are using a valid game mechanic that has been used for years in missions and have adapted it for there own purpose.



go read again what i posted cos you are just trying to get around something i already said. I nevr said nothing about been against rr or any other nonsence posted.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#100 - 2012-03-22 16:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: highonpop
lanyaie wrote:
You cant discuss bans on the forums
Best bet escalate it to a GM



you didnt read OP

He escalated the petitions only to be told by CCP they would ignore all further petitions.

If you get banned, you're pretty much ******. CCP wont even acknowledge you after that, even if they are wrong (In this case OP sounds a bit shady, but I can see the possibility of this happening). I have come to find over the years (since 2007) that CCP has a very high opinion of their own poop smell.

To me, they resemble politicians. People asking important questions or questioning what they do, and they side-step and back-pedal faster than Micheal Jackson wearing buttered up shoes... only to come out later down the road with some odd-ball 'we-say-this-fixes-it-but-it-really-doesnt' type of thing...

Just like politicians.

And yet, we love them for it. P

FC, what do?