Ships & Modules

Lol, you really haven't been paying attention.

1. My argument is that they should fix armor tanking so that those aren't the most viable fits for the Cane and Brutix. So we don't have to jam plates on.
2. I clearly listed the EHP values I hope to see post buff and they are all below the common current tank of the Cane and Brutix and do less damage.

At this point I don't think it matters what I say because you will just make it up.

What makes you think I want to nerf Armor setups. I want to buff them.

Yes fleet Drakes commonly are. That isn't the point though. Liang is complaining that I want common viable tanks for Cruisers to be between 30-40k and Battlecruisers between 60-75k.

Most modern BCs have relatively low EHP - Myrms, Brutixes, Canes, Cyclones, and Shield Bingers. That leaves Armor Bingers and Drakes as the realistic stand outs, and they typically only have 60-80k EHP depending on the fit. In your ideal future, cruisers would be about as tanky as most BCs we see today - except they would have all the lovely cruiser features like being faster with smaller sigs.

Your suggestion would be a disaster for game balance.

-Liang

Bolded the missed point. I want to see that changed.

I want to see it changed by fixing Armor Tanking, as for Shield Battlecruisers the Darke will be fine, Ferox and Cyclone are getting EHP buffs.

What I want for Armor Battlecruisers to close the gap is simple.

* Make 1600mm Plates unfittable below Battleships like the L Armor Repair. Introduce an XLSE module also unfittable.
* Buff Plate HP above Extenders value.
* Remove Rig Penalties across the board.
* Remove Plate mass and Shield Sig increase or lessen them.

Make speed and sig a non issue and make the difference between Armor and Shield that of low slot vs mid slots.

That's supposed to be 30-40k.

I know I am and I am probably not going to get what I want, or at least not going to get most of it.

But I like to at least get my idea's out there.

Low DPS, Low Tank Battlecruisers. They all have 20-35% less tank then the current Cane and Brutix. But I do not think that this is a catastrophe at all. I think that is where they should be and Battlecruisers slow by comparison and have a fatter sig but have 35-50% more tank and 20-30% more DPS.

As I said, I want to move Cruisers to the center. I want Battlecruisers to become what Destroyers are to Frigates and not the standard fleet ship like now. I want that to be Cruisers.

See, people whine about Eve being dumbed down when it's just a simple name change, but a change like this one is true "dumbing down". The armor mass vs shield sig radius penalties are essential attributes of each type of tanking, and add flavor and depth to combat.

An Ares or Malediction is better at breaking the tracking of the ship it's tackling because it doesn't armor tank, whereas the Stiletto tries to solve that with raw speed due to its shield tank. The brickiness of fleet Drakes is countered by the fact that hitting one is as easy as hitting the broad side of a barn, while the brickiness of Harbingers is countered by the fact that they are slower than some battleships when fit for maximum tank.

On top of that, 1600mm plates should not be changed. 200mm and 400mm plates are frigate plates, and 800mm and 1600mm plates are cruiser plates. Battleships make do with 1600s, but in case you haven't noticed, the 1600mm plate does not take a significant amount of any battleship's fittings, just as LSEs do not. I would be fine with the addition of 3200mm and 6400mm plates for battleships, or of XLSEs, but the current tank progression is not the problem.

The problem is that across the board, at all tasks, battlecruisers are superior to cruisers. That is, there is not a single thing that a cruiser does well (excepting EWAR) that there does not exist a battlecruiser that does the same thing better. That is causing cruisers to fall into disuse. Changes to tank only doesn't do anything to create a niche for cruisers. It just changes mechanics for the sake of changing them.

If a battlecruiser is supposed to be a heavier cruiser, most things are already fine. "Heavier" implies a bigger tank and bigger damage, which are already the case. However, it also implies "slower, clumsier, easier to hit, and more difficulty against smaller targets", which are not the case -- at least, not significantly. Some solutions to this?

• Buff cruiser speed/agility, particularly in egregiously lacking cases like the Moa and Maller.
• Nerf BC speed/agility (increase their mass) to eliminate nano fit abuse.
• Nerf BC tracking (25% tracking penalty across the board, with equivalent explosion velocity/radius penalty on Drake?)
• Nerf BC signature radius (make 'em bigger)
• If mega-tanks are an issue (I'm not convinced they are), increase penalties of doing so (1600mm plate mass, LSE sig radius)

Simply tweaking tanks of ships doesn't balance them, and a base cruiser having many times the EHP of an assault frigate is not balance.

****, not this **** again

Not true, it just redefines the differences between them. The flavor will come from Mid Slot Utility vs Low Slot Damage.

Your theory falls apart when everything that can hit a Drake also hits a Harbinger. The Harbinger is not countered by the fact that is is slow, it is ignored or fit for Shield. and something must be done about that.


Battlships do not need more bricking, their EHP values are fine. If you are ging to fix Armor it isn't going to be more HP. 1600mm Plates have not helped all that much. Moving them to Battleship and moving 800mm's down will help.

I want them to keep the same tank most of them can get IE: 30-40k EHP. I just want those fits to be more viable.

They don't need to be worse against smaller targets. I think they should be heavier and slower but have more HP / DPS. They can keep the tracking. The first step to make them heavier is to put the Shield Tanked Armor ones back into the Armor category.

That list doesn't change the fact that you are going to shoving Shields on every Armor Cruiser. That is a major problem with the game and should be addressed.

As for EHP. Frigates are up for a buff so who knows what they will do to them and Assault Frigates. Assault Frigates were changed to work in current environments and can be again.

Not enough wordy posts ITT. Where is Tippia?

With the proviso that "BC" implies the "brawling" Tier 1/2 BCs, I'm mostly fine with all of this. They're conceptually different from the cruisers-with-BS-guns that Tier 3s are. We discussed this earlier though. However:
- It isn't necessary to nerf BC tracking along with the rest of your list.
- It isn't necessary to nerf BC sig radius. They're already bigger than some battleships.....
- Mega tanks aren't that big of an issue.

-Liang

Maybe because I'm primaried due to their knwoledge of my low EHP? Taking a t1 cruiser down is a nice opportunity. The only ways to avoid this is try to kite which is difficult due to abundance of HMLs or never enter the damn ship.

Missread the sentence.

What do you mean by face? In my opinion the ship must have enough survivability to perform its role. It's ok with EWAR or logi if they have bonused range but is totaly messed for combat cruisers.