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Lowsec'ing a high sec system by force YARR

Author
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-21 12:04:54 UTC
what if low/null sec players were able to attack structures in high sec that would warn everyone in the region... and if they managed to destroy it the sec status would drop down to 0.4 or below? :D but this could only be done in "station less systems" or systems from 0.5-0.6? :)

While the hostiles attack this stucture, Weaker versions of concord/faction police will engage their fleet, similar strenght to sleeper/sansha

They will also be flagged as killable by everyone without concord attacking back...
this means random people or random fleets can decide to engage them if they want to save the system from becomming a low sec system (heck I will flirt with the idea of systems with stations also being able to be attacked)

Once this is done, the system will be a low sec system for either 24 hours, or 7 days?... after which concord will retaliate and everything return to normal :)

What about ganking? greifing and the carebears? well, I will entertain the idea that trade routes, market hubs, and mission hubs should have their sec status above 0.6 and thus not have their concord removed by the hostile pressence

So what about the defending fleets, can the hostile shoot them?: Yes, but only on grid of the "stucture" and anywhere els in the system concord will function like normally.. The hostile gang is not allowed to shoot first, otherwise a massive wave of reinforcements will arrive from concord (same strenght as earlier suggested) but once the defenders have agressed, or provided remote assistance to a agressed defender, the hostile gang is able to fire at them freely while they are on grid

What if the hostiles become overwhelmed? and leave the grid?: If they leave the grid, concord will chase them. they will not insta kill them, but they are allowed to leave the system and burn for low sec.

Note this is of cause a bad idea, but if done right could mean some more interesting gameplay interaction :D,
just to be sure that the hostiles aren't able to take every single 0.5 or 0.6 system and make them low sec, it might be safe to say that for each system "converted" for a short duration, the stronger the responding "concord" (within the same region at least)



So just assume this isn't a bad idea and that you actually read all this crap... What changes to this idea would make it better? what parts are really really bad? and what parts are okay or actually good? - EvE needs some turmolt, the salad needs to be tossed, throw a stone at the glass house... You know what I mean

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Mufa Jaynara
Pro Synergy
#2 - 2012-03-21 12:32:49 UTC
That would be awesome, but I think your idea needs some fine tuning lol!

hmm, I would imagine many not liking this idea or being indifferent, but it would add some more meaningful high sec interaction... an alternative to war decs... high sec carebears vs low/null sec pvp'ers
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#3 - 2012-03-21 13:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Serge Bastana
Yeah, bit of fine tuning and adjustment here and there and this would make things a lot more interesting for many involved. Perhaps start on the fringes of empire away from the trade hubs and routes to stop too much crying, but this could be a lot of fun for both sides.

At first glance there are some possible tactical uses for this as well, those who can't normally move through high sec being able to send in a team to lower the sec level of a system or two so they can carry out a particular action during the period the system is turned to low sec.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2012-03-21 13:41:43 UTC
Why? What good does this do for the game as a whole? I'm not really seeing anything here other than "I want to screw with people in highsec by turning it into lowsec". I'm just not seeing any redeeming qualities at all.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#5 - 2012-03-21 14:17:11 UTC
I would like to see dynamic system security ratings as well. But I think balancing it would pretty tough - since you really want the mechanic to be a push/pull between high-sec and low-sec parties. The problem is, the high-sec parties tend to be averse to conflict and will probably not take kindly to having it forced down their throat.

Perhaps have peripheral influence zones around major hotspots for PvP ro PvE that push up against each other. For instance high criminal populations/activity in systems like Tama or Amamake would start eroding the security status of surrounding systems - maybe making the mission rats in those systems tougher or something until it flips to a low sec system. On the other hand, heavy mission running would counter the effect. I think major trade lanes should be effected, which might give high-sec players a reason to actually unite under a common cause (while still participating in PvE).

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon

Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-03-21 14:29:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
mxzf wrote:
Why? What good does this do for the game as a whole? I'm not really seeing anything here other than "I want to screw with people in highsec by turning it into lowsec". I'm just not seeing any redeeming qualities at all.


The "why" is to give people something to fight over, it doesn't always have to be because of isk, EvE is full of people who do this stuff just for fun (fun in their eyes)

That being said, I agree with one of the above posts, maybe this should be limited to systems that are next to a low sec system or null sec system to begin with? (and if people like it, could be expanded)... ofc exceptions like the important trade hubs like jita, amarr, dodixie and so on....

it wouldn't directly force everyone in high sec to fight for their space, but it would encourage it... since it would be "stucture shoot" without any supercapitals for one... or capitals at all... the stucture shoot would take a little while (or should) but the point is not really the destruction of this stucture, the point is the battle between those defending it and those attacking it

and let me stress my idea of it being temporary, be it a day... or days

so to sum up my addition...

Boarder systems... because of good fights... and lets see where it takes us :)

Miners and missioners will be able to do what they always do, if the system is about to become a low sec system for a little while, the system sirenes should be alarming, and a warning to everyone sent out, if your about to jump into a system thats just become a low sec system, it should give a different warning than just jumping into normal low sec

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#7 - 2012-03-21 14:59:16 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Why? What good does this do for the game as a whole? I'm not really seeing anything here other than "I want to screw with people in highsec by turning it into lowsec". I'm just not seeing any redeeming qualities at all.


The main reason, is high/low-sec is way too static, and a little shake-up means new challenges, strategies, opportunities, etc. Very few people will try to screw over high sec all-together, especially since there's a pretty heavy reliance on high sec for trade/logistics even for low/null sec dwellers. As long as there's some kind of push/pull (ie. conflict) mechanic added, I think it could produce something that could be fun for both sides. For instance think about narrowing/cutting off routes in low sec, producing new low-sec islands that creates new challenges/opportunities for low sec dwellers.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-03-21 16:05:16 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Why? What good does this do for the game as a whole? I'm not really seeing anything here other than "I want to screw with people in highsec by turning it into lowsec". I'm just not seeing any redeeming qualities at all.


The "why" is to give people something to fight over, it doesn't always have to be because of isk, EvE is full of people who do this stuff just for fun (fun in their eyes)

That being said, I agree with one of the above posts, maybe this should be limited to systems that are next to a low sec system or null sec system to begin with? (and if people like it, could be expanded)... ofc exceptions like the important trade hubs like jita, amarr, dodixie and so on....

it wouldn't directly force everyone in high sec to fight for their space, but it would encourage it... since it would be "stucture shoot" without any supercapitals for one... or capitals at all... the stucture shoot would take a little while (or should) but the point is not really the destruction of this stucture, the point is the battle between those defending it and those attacking it

and let me stress my idea of it being temporary, be it a day... or days

so to sum up my addition...

Boarder systems... because of good fights... and lets see where it takes us :)

Miners and missioners will be able to do what they always do, if the system is about to become a low sec system for a little while, the system sirenes should be alarming, and a warning to everyone sent out, if your about to jump into a system thats just become a low sec system, it should give a different warning than just jumping into normal low sec


The issue I see with that is that not everyone wants to fight over space like that. Many people are in highsec because they don't want to be involved with the structure-grinding mechanics of 0.0 and many others because they don't want conflict in the first place. This proposal would force conflict on people who don't want it (and everyone is just as entitled to enjoying Eve as anyone else).

Also, a "temporary" status that isn't severely limited becomes a permanent status because people will keep triggering it. You either end up with it being not limited enough (and people effectively writing off those systems permanently) or too limited (and it's not really worth doing other than just to annoy people). I don't see any middle-ground where it would actually work out well.

And it comes back to the fact that you can't force conflict on people, they will either avoid it to the best of their abilities or they will simply quit Eve and move on. You can't force people into conflict, you have to tempt them into conflict.

tl;dr: you can't force people to fight and I can't see this doing anything but annoying people unnecessarily.
Spy 21
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-03-21 16:17:36 UTC
Actually a large enough and properly motivated corp or alliance could take over a high sec system within the current game mechanics.

Just wardec the permanent residents of the system and gank the rest.

Might be fun.

Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3...

Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-03-21 17:52:30 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Why? What good does this do for the game as a whole? I'm not really seeing anything here other than "I want to screw with people in highsec by turning it into lowsec". I'm just not seeing any redeeming qualities at all.


The "why" is to give people something to fight over, it doesn't always have to be because of isk, EvE is full of people who do this stuff just for fun (fun in their eyes)

That being said, I agree with one of the above posts, maybe this should be limited to systems that are next to a low sec system or null sec system to begin with? (and if people like it, could be expanded)... ofc exceptions like the important trade hubs like jita, amarr, dodixie and so on....

it wouldn't directly force everyone in high sec to fight for their space, but it would encourage it... since it would be "stucture shoot" without any supercapitals for one... or capitals at all... the stucture shoot would take a little while (or should) but the point is not really the destruction of this stucture, the point is the battle between those defending it and those attacking it

and let me stress my idea of it being temporary, be it a day... or days

so to sum up my addition...

Boarder systems... because of good fights... and lets see where it takes us :)

Miners and missioners will be able to do what they always do, if the system is about to become a low sec system for a little while, the system sirenes should be alarming, and a warning to everyone sent out, if your about to jump into a system thats just become a low sec system, it should give a different warning than just jumping into normal low sec


The issue I see with that is that not everyone wants to fight over space like that. Many people are in highsec because they don't want to be involved with the structure-grinding mechanics of 0.0 and many others because they don't want conflict in the first place. This proposal would force conflict on people who don't want it (and everyone is just as entitled to enjoying Eve as anyone else).

Also, a "temporary" status that isn't severely limited becomes a permanent status because people will keep triggering it. You either end up with it being not limited enough (and people effectively writing off those systems permanently) or too limited (and it's not really worth doing other than just to annoy people). I don't see any middle-ground where it would actually work out well.

And it comes back to the fact that you can't force conflict on people, they will either avoid it to the best of their abilities or they will simply quit Eve and move on. You can't force people into conflict, you have to tempt them into conflict.

tl;dr: you can't force people to fight and I can't see this doing anything but annoying people unnecessarily.


Not that I don't agree completly, the scope of this should be limited unless people (even the high sec'ers) actually enjoy it. as I proposed it could be only boader systems to begin with as an experiment, and limited as to how many systems can be "converted for a short time" as it becomes basicly impossible to take more systems in same region

it wouldn't be a structure grind for the high sec people, as they will be defending it, all they need to do is kill the attackers (they will have the upper hand also, as the attacking fleet has to deal with NPC's at the same time)

So again, I understand your concern, but for the people in high sec who wants to avoid conflict, all they really have to do is scoop over 1 system for a few days. what about people trapped inside station if it was a system like torrinos?, well, either make a run for a random gate or wait a few days inside station...

One more thing, to prevent permanent "hostageing" of a system, the system could be reinforced when the time runs out, and the attackers wont be able to take it back for a day or something (this would also make those eve players who don't even know how to get away from a station in low sec, escape if someone is planning to keep taking the system again and again)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Mufa Jaynara
Pro Synergy
#11 - 2012-03-22 07:59:34 UTC
it's a shame CCP can't make this before the warfare themed expansion this summer, I bet it would take quite some work
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#12 - 2012-03-22 08:36:34 UTC
High Sec Incursions should drop security, but I'm not thrilled by the idea of destroying structures to do so.