EVE General Discussion

All those other situations where you're using a broken mechanic involving webs to prevent people from warping would also be exploits, you know… So you should be concerned if you're still using those (or, better yet, report them as well to CCP, now that they've got web exploits high on the agenda).

No. The two are not covering different things. They are merely not providing all the details of the exploit that has been outlawed in the first version. One more time: in both cases, they are outlawing the use of a broken game mechanic involving webs. They are not allowing the use of this bug for non-freighter ships in the second version; they are not allowing the use of this bug outside of lowsec; the second version is not narrowed-down — it's just explaining how the bug is being used and why it works. What they are saying is quite simply “you cannot use webs to make ships unable to cancel warp”, that is all — this is the “broken mechanic involving webs” hinted at in the first version.

Also, they were not outlawing the use of webs in the first version — just the exploitation of bugs, which should come as no surprise.

Again: take off the rage glasses, calm down, and read the two side by side. The differences are nil aside from the quite unconventional step of explaining how to perform the exploit they're outlawing and an explanation of how it came to their attention. Just because they didn't include all the details in the first version does not mean that the scope of what's being outlawed has changed.

…neither of which matters because you're assuming that they've fully understood what the problem was this whole time. That's a particularly dangerous assumption to make in relation to CCP, as history has shown (cf. the infinitracking magnetar exploit).

It's been reported to GMs kind of a lot of times, the problem is GMs have a notoriously poor understanding of game mechanics.

You'd hope that in 4 years they'd have grasped what people were reporting to them though.

It took an extra bunch of people figuring it out and an evenews24 article before they could grasp it though.

Maybe if GMs dont understand they should raise it to someone that does, or ask for clarification before saying it is explicitly NOT an exploit.

This has been around for a lot longer than the infinitracking exploit, and unlike that situation, this is a matter of core game mechanics that has been tried and tested by god-knows how many people. And even if GMs don't play the game themselves, how this works has been explained in detail through countless previous petitions. For them to claim not to know about it when such a large part of the playerbase did would just be stupid. Poeple have petitioned losses with detailed explanations of how they lost their ships to this "bug/mechanic", and have allways been told it works as intended.

The only thing that's new here, and that CCP didn't think of, is how to make use of the Vindicator hull to kill jumpfreighters. You don't even need to use webs, the same effect can be achieved with some good bumping, or even the freighter bumping off station structure as it undocks.

Instead of crying foul CCP should just acknowledge this as a legit tactic and let dumb jumpfreighters die if they can't manage to align before warping.

You are rationalizing to justify a popular exploit.

In both cases people are utilizing unintended side effect of webs.

They found about it years ago, it only took a person with certain affiliation losing a 20b jump freighter to do something about it.

This slappy fight would be more fun if they both had their old avatars.

My avatar looks better - and it did then too. :)

-Liang

A Rapier's web range far exceeds its point range, and it is not realistic to assume that it will be able to apply a point to something it webs. In fact, one of a Rapier's primary responsibilities is to web something down so that you can put a point on it. See earlier in the thread for commentary about how people have repeatedly lost ships this way. Using your definition, using a Rapier is an exploit in almost all usual situations. The severity differs - merely up to ~30 seconds usually... but the effect is the same.

-Liang

The infinite tracking exploit was an obscure exploit used by a single corporation in wormhole space that could only be reproduced in a handfull of systems. This, however, is about a core mechanic that's been used for years by numerous player groups, that's been well documented and tested by hundreds, if not thousands of players over the years. It's something the faction police does every days to unfortunate players, it's something that has happened in PvP every single day for goddamn years.

Claiming CCP didn't know exactly what was going on is goddamn retarted, it's been explained to them in detail over and over again by people frustrated over losing their ships to faction police, by people wanting to make sure their tactics are legit and it's something every good PvP'er knows how to use to his advantage. And CCP has allways said it's fine and within the game mechanics, up untli Garmon ganked a jumpfreighter and a Evenews24 article whining was written.

Hell, groups like Moar Tears have killed a ton jumpfreighters with this exact tactic and every time a loss has been petitioned they've been told that's how the game work and "tough luck". If Grimmi doesn't know about this not only does he lack anything beyond the most basic understand of warp mechanics, he clearly hasn't been paying atention whatsoever for the last few years. So he should probably talk to some of the GMs who have dealt with these mechanics previously before he goes and declares it an "obvious exploit".



Up until yesterday it was a well known game mechanic no one had any issues with. CCP said that's how it's supposed to work, and players adapted to their rules. if they feel it needs to be changed then fine, they can change it so you'll allways be able ot cancell warp no matter what. But call it what it is; a change in game mechanics. The warp mechanics might be poorly designed, but this doesn't mean taking advantage of this is cheating; it's knowing how the game works and using that to your advantage.