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Analyzer II & Codebreaker II

Author
Stampertje'n
V I R I I
Dead Terrorists
#1 - 2012-03-19 10:11:54 UTC
The simple question is : Is it worth training Hacking V and Archaeology V so you can use the T2 items

I have an alt that is only trained for salvaging, exploration and logistics. I'm pretty happy with the scanning ability's of that account (exploration skills are on 4/4/4/5. So with a cov-op + sister launcher & probes + rigs I can scan down almost everytihng) The only thing i'm doubting about is if i should train those skills to V. It's 2 times 10 days

I'm scanning 4 0sec system everyday. And always doing all the DED / radar / magnetronic sites i
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#2 - 2012-03-19 10:38:14 UTC
Stampertje'n wrote:
The simple question is : Is it worth training Hacking V and Archaeology V so you can use the T2 items

I have an alt that is only trained for salvaging, exploration and logistics. I'm pretty happy with the scanning ability's of that account (exploration skills are on 4/4/4/5. So with a cov-op + sister launcher & probes + rigs I can scan down almost everytihng) The only thing i'm doubting about is if i should train those skills to V. It's 2 times 10 days

I'm scanning 4 0sec system everyday. And always doing all the DED / radar / magnetronic sites i


You will find the odd one that requires level 4 skills (perhaps with rigs) to even open the cans. Level 5 just makes life easy. With level 5 you won't require special ship fittings and it speeds things up (quite) a bit. If you have other priorities then level-4 is (as far as I know) all you'll ever need.

T-
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-03-19 10:39:26 UTC
I'm glad I trained Codebreaker II, means I spend less time in hostile space waiting for cans to open. Personally I wouldn't bother with Analyzer II, as the only Magnetometric sites I do are the ones that need Salvager module, which I'd recommend training to V as well for Salvager II.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#4 - 2012-03-19 11:37:28 UTC
Higher access chance, faster cycle time and longer reach. If you do it a lot it sure helps.
Joel Mi
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-03-19 16:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Joel Mi
i have questions about this

1 - besides training that skills you guys mention to lv5, is it worth placing rigs for faster salvaging, hacking and archaeology?
2 - another question: i understand that these skills do not increase or change in getting better items (from salvaging, hacking, etc), but by getting the items in less cycles does it means that i can get more than if i do more cycles?
example ( salvaging a ship, contains 10 armor plates and 10 alloyed trit bars. if you salvage it in 2cycles you get 8 armor plates and 8 alloyed trit bars, if you salvage in 1cycle you get 10armor plates and 10 alloyed trit bars... same for hacking, and using the analyzer?)


thanks
Tabernack en Chasteaux
Phoibe Enterprises
#6 - 2012-03-19 16:45:06 UTC
Joel Mi wrote:
i have questions about this

1 - besides training that skills you guys mention to lv5, is it worth placing rigs for faster salvaging, hacking and archaeology?
2 - another question: i understand that these skills do not increase or change in getting better items (from salvaging, hacking, etc), but by getting the items in less cycles does it means that i can get more than if i do more cycles?
example ( salvaging a ship, contains 10 armor plates and 10 alloyed trit bars. if you salvage it in 2cycles you get 8 armor plates and 8 alloyed trit bars, if you salvage in 1cycle you get 10armor plates and 10 alloyed trit bars... same for hacking, and using the analyzer?)


thanks


1 - Generally nope. The only ones I've ever seen are salvage tackle rigs on a dedicated salvaging ship.
2 - Nope. Number of cyles has no effect on the amount of loot you get.
Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders
#7 - 2012-03-19 16:56:28 UTC
Using T2 for better chance and faster cycle in hostile space is great. The range difference really doesn't matter much usually. If you are in high sec, using T1 at lvl 4 is pretty good. But like everything else, faster is usually better.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.

Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#8 - 2012-03-19 17:13:43 UTC
For rigs, you have to think about the nature if the ship...

T1 or t2 probing frigate: usually you use the rigs that increase scan strength.

Exploration tengu: cap, shield, or missile rigs.

Exploration Drake: same as tengu

Noctis: salvage or cargo expanders.

Most people do not have a dedicated codebreaker or analyzer ship, so the rigs specializing in those areas are rarely used.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2012-03-19 17:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
For salvaging C5 & C6 Sleeper sites, we used one Noctis and one Hurricane that did the cans.

A Hurricane was chosen because of its cargo, high-slots, acceptable number of mids, and speed moving between cans. It had an unexpected bonus of people not wanting to gank the Noctis with a Hurricane on grid (one potential ganker even told us this), even though it was unarmed.

The Hurricane was fit with either 3x Codebreaker II or 3x Analyzer II as the site required. It took about as long to open all the cans as it did to salvage it, sometimes longer.

The Hurricane was rigged with 2x Cargo and 1x Access, and the pilot had a Salvaging Implant.
Bombzai
KwaiZai Inc
#10 - 2012-03-19 18:55:47 UTC
Tabernack en Chasteaux wrote:
Joel Mi wrote:
i have questions about this

1 - besides training that skills you guys mention to lv5, is it worth placing rigs for faster salvaging, hacking and archaeology?
2 - another question: i understand that these skills do not increase or change in getting better items (from salvaging, hacking, etc), but by getting the items in less cycles does it means that i can get more than if i do more cycles?
example ( salvaging a ship, contains 10 armor plates and 10 alloyed trit bars. if you salvage it in 2cycles you get 8 armor plates and 8 alloyed trit bars, if you salvage in 1cycle you get 10armor plates and 10 alloyed trit bars... same for hacking, and using the analyzer?)


thanks


1 - Generally nope. The only ones I've ever seen are salvage tackle rigs on a dedicated salvaging ship.
2 - Nope. Number of cyles has no effect on the amount of loot you get.

There are some radar/mag sites in kspace that will fail via 'booby trap' if too many cycles are run on the cans, but they are infrequent. You'll be able to tell if this has happened by a notification in the local channel and if you have drones out they'll take damage, as well as destroying the can contents.
Tabernack en Chasteaux
Phoibe Enterprises
#11 - 2012-03-19 20:30:13 UTC
Bombzai wrote:
...as well as destroying the can contents.


From personal experience, I can say that this is not true. I have received loot from cans on which I have triggered the booby trap.

Booby traps simply have a random chance of going off on a failed attempt, and the probability is not a function of the number of failed cycles. The point stands that a higher chance of success will mean fewer cycles, and a smaller cumulative chance of triggering the booby trap. In any case, the trap damage isn't even enough to kill an untanked covert ops frigate. I know this as well from personal experience :P

I'm not sure what the range of a booby trap is - anyone have info on this? With T2 mods you might be able to stay out of the blast radius.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2012-03-19 20:36:25 UTC
For w-space mag/radar sites I use dedicated hurricanes ... three T2 analysers / code-breakers plus appropriate T1 rigs. It's very rare for any can to need a second cycle to be opened.

Lvl5 of the relevant skill, the use of multiple T2 can-opener modules and the use of appropriate rigs, only serves to make the process quicker ... sometimes way quicker. It doesn't give you any more stuff (unless you count the possibility of being less likely to be disturbed because you're int he site for less time) but it does give it to you more quickly.

I believe that some cans require at least lvl4 of the skill ( ?or functional equivalent with rigs) to be opened at all, and I well remember trying some sleeper cans when I had low skills ... and them taking like forever.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#13 - 2012-03-19 20:49:38 UTC
IMO, for general exploration, I would crank up all of my scan skills before taking them to 5. Just my opinion. While a T2 codebreaker will be good for some sites, nice high scan skills help for all of them.

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-03-19 21:23:43 UTC
Yes it's worth it.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-03-20 22:09:54 UTC
assuming time isn't a concern, whats the minimum skill required to open cans in nullsec? just lvl 1 with t1 codebreaker/analyzer?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-03-21 08:01:36 UTC
Maureen Biologist wrote:
assuming time isn't a concern, whats the minimum skill required to open cans in nullsec? just lvl 1 with t1 codebreaker/analyzer?

I believe minimum skill for some cans is lvl 4.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Ajita al Tchar
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-03-21 14:46:24 UTC
Joel Mi wrote:
i have questions about this

1 - besides training that skills you guys mention to lv5, is it worth placing rigs for faster salvaging, hacking and archaeology?
2 - another question: i understand that these skills do not increase or change in getting better items (from salvaging, hacking, etc), but by getting the items in less cycles does it means that i can get more than if i do more cycles?
example ( salvaging a ship, contains 10 armor plates and 10 alloyed trit bars. if you salvage it in 2cycles you get 8 armor plates and 8 alloyed trit bars, if you salvage in 1cycle you get 10armor plates and 10 alloyed trit bars... same for hacking, and using the analyzer?)


thanks


I think that this really depends on your personal opinion of how well you're doing on hacking/salvaging/killing. For example, my main "clean up" alt trained Salvaging, Hacking and Archeology to 5 very shortly I started seriously running sites in w-space and I always fit salvage rigs on my dedicated clean-up ships. Reason being that Sleeper wrecks are on average tougher than k-space wrecks and all the salvaging time added up was taking longer than I liked, plus there was no detriment to fitting salvage rigs on a ship that's not meant to do much else besides cleaning and not getting ganked while doing it. If you do something often, you generally want to not sink unnecessary time into doing it so you can do more of it Big smile So, I fit salvage rigs on all of my ships that clean up sites with any fair number of wrecks, including mission sites. I don't bother with hacking and analyzing rigs since these modules don't get used nearly as often and so some lack of efficiency there isn't all that noticeable. Preference. I think my older cheapo salvage ship had 2 salvage rigs and an agility rig (for increased chances of GTFO when things go ****-up)

But despite saying "preference", I would make this generalization. If you're using an all-in-one ship for both the radars/mags AND combat sites 4/10 and higher (+their equivalents), it's probably best to avoid salvage rigs and the like. There are more useful things to put in their place, like tank, gank or speed. The demands on your ship from these combat sites are very different compared to those from hacky-looty sites, gotta err on the side of giving more attention to the combat abilities since that's the harder part. Or so I see it, at least.
Ajita al Tchar
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-03-21 14:52:54 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Maureen Biologist wrote:
assuming time isn't a concern, whats the minimum skill required to open cans in nullsec? just lvl 1 with t1 codebreaker/analyzer?

I believe minimum skill for some cans is lvl 4.


To add to this, you can avoid the skill training if you really needed to by just slapping some hacking rigs on your ship. What matters is the "access difficulty bonus" value for the module and that can be altered in more than one way. While training the skill to 4 takes little time, the rig solution can be useful if you never trained Hacking past 2 on some character and all of a sudden you realize you need to hax this one can but you can't without waiting 1day+ for the skill. For example, the mission where you have to hack into prisons in the Caldari Epic Arc, IIRC. I think I remember that running it with a character that only had Hacking to 2 and that only because it was needed for invention I couldn't open the cans, but rigs solved that problem.