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Why do I suck?

Author
bunghe chimichonga
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-03-14 02:24:13 UTC
Just wondering if anybody more experience d then me can tell me why I ******* suck at pvp? I'm in rvb and I have 2 kills one of which is a rookie ship and like 20 deaths. It feels like I can't apply any dps at all. I usually fly rifters thrashers arbitrators and ruptures. Thanks in advance
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#2 - 2012-03-14 02:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Magnum
I have some suggestions. Not knowing any other details I'll start with the most important one, and then speculate on the rest:

1. Ask your question here, and give details.
- being former RvB myself, I know they'll go out of their way to fix your problem.

2. low skills?
- arbitrators and ruptures are both reasonably SP-intensive for cruisers. If you don't have a mixture of drone, turret, turret support, and fitting skills it'll be hard to get a good performance out of either, if you've got a competent opponent. RvB players who fly cruisers usually fit T2. Never did myself, but I only ever flew them in fleets. Plus I already had level 5 in all that stuff so it didn't matter as much if I went meta.

3. poor maneuvering, resulting in low traversal against more powerful opponents or high traversal against smaller ones?
- if you're going up against a better-armed opponent, you need to maneuver to keep traversal down. The arbitrator needs to evade, since you'll be keeping some range most likely between yourself and the target. The rupture is sort of a brawler so it's less important in that case... unless you're fighting someone who can outmaneuver you and you can't hit.

4. bad choice of targets (SPs play a role in this, but ship fittings and ship types are more important)
- this is the hardest issue to address, and can take a long time in this game to really become knowledgable in, and even then you can't account for every unconventional fitting (which is reason #893454 why Eve is so good even when it's bad.)

5. bad fittings on your ships?
- there's a variety of fits that are only great in a few situations, a few fits that are decent in most situations, and a galaxy of fits that are always terrible.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]

Dhar'aul
Timberton Holdings
#3 - 2012-03-14 06:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dhar'aul
Pro RvB tip: shy away out of minnie ships. They are primaried in the beginning of any engagement due to their high dps and low buffer.

My adivce: fly some Invuln/medium shield extender merlins and don't engage 1 vs more than 1, you will loose.
Something along these lines gives roughly 10k EHP + you get a 40-ish dps shield passive tank. It is not a 'end it all' fit but if you can keep ~6k range you may find you manage to outlast some foes.


[Merlin, fodder]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Medium Shield Extender II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I

200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#4 - 2012-03-14 08:52:37 UTC
bunghe chimichonga wrote:
Just wondering if anybody more experience d then me can tell me why I ******* suck at pvp? I'm in rvb and I have 2 kills one of which is a rookie ship and like 20 deaths. It feels like I can't apply any dps at all. I usually fly rifters thrashers arbitrators and ruptures. Thanks in advance


Good ship fittings and having a plan are important but more importantly (and this applies to any ship you fly) you *must* choose your targets wisely.

T-

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#5 - 2012-03-14 10:28:23 UTC
Looking at your losses you are dying a lot to more than one person. This is common in EVE but you can't expect to be a hero tanking many ships in a gang fight in Rifters, Thrashers or Ruptures.

RvB if it's still like it used to, has a lot of opportunity to get arranged 1v1's in frigs. Fit your Rifters with T2 and get people to do 1v1's with you. You will still likely lose a decent amount of fights, but at least you will have chance to win in 1 vs 1 situations. This will help you learn a bit more rather than just being in a gang fight for 20 seconds and being a easy kill for 4 or 5 ships.
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#6 - 2012-03-14 12:01:01 UTC
Minmatar just isn't very good for PvP, too bad you wasted those skillpoints.

Weak tank, low dps, so Minmatar is usually forced to do the only thing it can -run away. In frigate fleets this doesn't really work, so you, son, are hosed.

J/K, new guys are just commonly primaried first in RvB.

Hang on there, improve your tank first so you don't instapop, keep moving, and be chill - you'll get the hang of it soon. Focus on improving situational awareness, is the primary inside your range? Analyze your losses, keep logs open. Other guys above gave good advice, try to get arranged 1vs1s, soloing around is perhaps not the best thing to do at first. Many RvB frig soloists are really, really good and will be happy to eat a new guy for breakfast before you can even figure out what happened.

Of course later... soloing is really interesting. Do it as soon as you think you can do it :)


btw primary order:

1. Incursus



2. other frigs, order doesn't matter as unlike the Inc, they all have at least some tank but no real dps to be worried about


Cool

.

Willl Adama
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-14 13:59:12 UTC
Good suggestions in the thread.

One of the things that taught me the most about PvP was watching pvp videos. Check out my sig for example

Hi

Vordak Kallager
This Game Is Terrible
Warlords of the Deep
#8 - 2012-03-14 20:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vordak Kallager
Willl Adama wrote:
Good suggestions in the thread.

One of the things that taught me the most about PvP was watching pvp videos. Check out my sig for example


This, 100%. My media library has more than a week's worth of PvP video. It's not the same as flying around yourself, but it does give you some measure of experience without putting in the time/effort/risk. It helps you know what to do in different situations, what fights you want to take, which not to take, how to fit, how to call primary, etc etc. All of Garmon's videos are great. Also check out Prometheus Exenthal's Frigank series for some sexy frigate action. Pretty much anything from Genos Occidere is usually great, to be honest, and Matari Exodus are pretty pro as well. Big smile

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
Quantum Inquisition
#9 - 2012-03-14 21:01:20 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Willl Adama wrote:
Good suggestions in the thread.

One of the things that taught me the most about PvP was watching pvp videos. Check out my sig for example


This, 100%. My media library has more than a week's worth of PvP video. It's not the same as flying around yourself, but it does give you some measure of experience without putting in the time/effort/risk. It helps you know what to do in different situations, what fights you want to take, which not to take, how to fit, how to call primary, etc etc. All of Garmon's videos are great. Also check out Prometheus Exenthal's Frigank series for some sexy frigate action. Pretty much anything from Genos Occidere is usually great, to be honest, and Matari Exodus are pretty pro as well. Big smile

Some of the best video you can watch is FRAPS footage of your own fights. See if you can find anything to improve on after any fight, but especially ones where your opponent gets away in hull after popping you/manages to break tackle and GTFO.
Meditril
Second Star
Cheese Party
#10 - 2012-03-15 09:17:40 UTC
As someone already said above: Minmatar ships aren't as good as people think, in capable hands they have the benefit of speed, if you know how to use it to your advantange. But in general they have weaker tank and less dps than other races.

You need to be aware that most part of PVP happens before the real PVP occurs. Which means, you should first decide what tactics do you intend to apply. So here are some decisions you should take:

  1. Are you going Brawling (short range knife fight) or Kiting (long range stay at distance)?
  2. Are you going for Ganking (apply as high dps as possible with intention to kill target before he can do much damange to you) or Tanking (out tank the enemy and kill him slowly)?


Once you decided on this then you should choose your ship and apply your fittings which are matching your tactics.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#11 - 2012-03-15 15:58:13 UTC
Taking a look at your loss mails, I see a lot of speed/gank fits, and in general ships with little to no buffer. In RvB there are a lot of frig/destroyer blob fights that are conducted at short range, which is the exact opposite from what you want to fly into with a short range high dps ship with a small buffer. High dps fits work well if you have a reasonable chance of dropping your opponent before they can chew through your tank (speed, active, buffer etc), once you start adding multiple attackers with no way to really reduce their damage (ie. you're in their damage/web/scram range) it is likely that they can chew through your thin tank before you can get the kill. Also being close to either end of the alphabet can be a pain since targets are often called out in alphabetical order after ship type/range.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon

Pixxie Twilight
#12 - 2012-03-16 04:01:06 UTC
Willl Adama wrote:
Good suggestions in the thread.

One of the things that taught me the most about PvP was watching pvp videos. Check out my sig for example


Watching the links now, thanks :)

[b]~~~ NEW PLAYER PODCAST ~  PIXXIE'S EVE ONLINE PODCAST ~~~ Latest Episode EPISODE 10*SWTOR, DIABLO 3, Inferno, HULKAGEDDON* ~~~~~~~~  On iTunes and at http://pixxietwilight.podbean.com/ ~~~~~~~~[/b]

Annie Anomie
Moira.
Villore Accords
#13 - 2012-03-16 07:23:12 UTC
Something you might consider is putting your logs through an analyzer:

http://www.eve-log.com/log.html

and seeing if you can link poor damage application to anything you're doing.

Good skills make a tremendous difference.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#14 - 2012-03-19 10:07:58 UTC
I also took the liberty to looking up you lossmails on the RvB killboards. If you have the habit of flying speedtanked rifters in engagements with multiple enemies, you're not likely to win a lot, especially not in RvB where there are plenty of other frigates and destroyers that have a lot less problems hitting something fast if it's orbiting somebody else at a distance.

Also, you're not a big fan of rigs, are you?

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Cletus Graeme
Shai Dorsai
#15 - 2012-03-19 16:48:53 UTC
bunghe chimichonga wrote:
Just wondering if anybody more experience d then me can tell me why I ******* suck at pvp? I'm in rvb and I have 2 kills one of which is a rookie ship and like 20 deaths. It feels like I can't apply any dps at all. I usually fly rifters thrashers arbitrators and ruptures. Thanks in advance


The only way someone can really tell if you suck is
(1) if they fly with you
(2) if they fight against you
(3) you fraps your fights for others to watch and advise you.

So, ask your gangmates, then your opponents, then trying frapsing.

However, you'll only get better when you're able to work out for yourself what you're doing wrong.

Most of the time people die because they make mistakes so try to work out what was/were the mistake(s) you made which cost you the fight and then try to figure out what to do next time so you don't repeat it/them.

If you don't think you made any mistakes then you don't suck and you were supposed to die so everything is fine - welcome to EvE combat :)
Kale Kold
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-03-20 21:48:04 UTC
bunghe chimichonga wrote:
I usually fly rifters thrashers arbitrators and ruptures.

I think i've found your problem.

“Some people call me insane for the destruction I’ve caused, ...I believe I was just doing my duty!” -- Testimony submitted to Caldari Navy war crimes tribunal.

TFirish3
Apollo's Rising
#17 - 2012-03-21 02:18:47 UTC
The trouble is you're flying for the wrong side Blink


A lot of good advice here. In all honesty, Rifters, Thrashers and Ruppies all do get primaried pretty quickly in RvB fleet fights, so it may just be a case of bad luck. Best advice is to just get out there and hit it though. RvB is a great community to learn in. Ask for a few 1v1s and then ask the person how they got you. Join the fleets and listen to the FCs. You'll be fine.

http://www.rollinseveride.blogspot.com

Infinity Horizon
Infinity Horizon Corporationss
#18 - 2012-03-21 06:16:49 UTC
Wrong ship. Wrong fit. Try this:

[Hurricane, P i V i P]
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Or if you just really want to do frig, try this:

[Wolf, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Overdrive Injector System II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Medium Shield Extender II
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Arch Angel EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Arch Angel EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Arch Angel EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Arch Angel EMP S

Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

230DPS & 11k EHP on the wolf
Have fun collecting tears PiratePiratePirate

YEAH !! I knew training for a Harpy will one day pay off :))

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#19 - 2012-03-22 14:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Infinity Horizon wrote:
[Wolf, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Overdrive Injector System II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Medium Shield Extender II
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Arch Angel EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Arch Angel EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Arch Angel EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Arch Angel EMP S

Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

230DPS & 11k EHP on the wolf
Have fun collecting tears PiratePiratePirate


Nice EFT fit bro.

Let me know who is crying after the target just warps away (see if you can see what you're missing).

Also let me know what it's like to be kited by anything with a MWD.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#20 - 2012-03-23 02:51:31 UTC
I can suggest a few things.

1) Buy a Breacher, fit a MWD and light missiles. Set orbit button to default of 35km. Click target, click orbit, put on MWD, and spam missiles. No one will target you because...what is a Breacher? 58DPS kiting mother lover which will cost you 250K, is what.
.
[Breacher, Gape]

'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
[Empty High slot]

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Target Painter I

Nanofiber Internal Structure I
Nanofiber Internal Structure I

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
[Empty Rig slot]

2) Arty thrasher or beam Coercer. Again, if you are dying too fast in brawls, be that sniper guy who burns to range and ninjas onto kills. ProTip: lock multiple targets and wait for them to hit hull then stab F1 to finish them off.

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