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Miners, an endangered species.
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Darronis Olachenko
#81 - 2012-03-20 17:52:04 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Posting to confirm that RMT bots are mining away in nullsec. Right now, in fact.


Fixed that for you.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#82 - 2012-03-20 17:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Darronis Olachenko wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Posting to confirm that real players in my own corporation mine away in nullsec. At will, in fact.


I am an idiot!!!


I heard you liked some fixin's so I put some fixin's in your fixin's so you could have some fixin's while you were fixin'.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#83 - 2012-03-20 17:55:40 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
The whole suicide gank thing has gotten out of hand, more often I am encountering less than year old players who've gotten hit one too many times and are ready to quit.

Bump barges, indies, freighters and Orca HP by two to three times and it will put an end to a lot of this. If there needs to be a cost balance for that, bump build requirements by two to three times as well. It still leaves space plenty dangerous, still plenty of aggro games people can play with cans and wrecks, lame use of neut RR and cheesy Orca docking bay games.

The scam situation is not much better.

Yeah, I can understand 14 year olds getting into the suicide gank thing. But the average player age in EO is 28. Roll
I just don't understand the psychology of wanting to gank some guy who's minding his own business. If it's PVP people want, they can go to low sec, null sec, FW or Red vs. Blue. Or even wardec another corp FFS. Maybe it's just the tears they want. Which is just pathetic IMO. Maybe these gankers never got a chance to bully little kids in real life.


What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#84 - 2012-03-20 17:58:33 UTC
I've noticed the same thing in the systems I mine.

I'm always alone now....it's nervewracking. Scan shows only combat ships. Chat is silent where there used to be idle chatter from fellow miners. I've gone entire sessions (3 hours or so) without seeing another miner in systems that used to have many.

Well, at least there's ore now :)
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#85 - 2012-03-20 18:01:28 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
I've noticed the same thing in the systems I mine.

I'm always alone now....it's nervewracking. Scan shows only combat ships. Chat is silent where there used to be idle chatter from fellow miners. I've gone entire sessions (3 hours or so) without seeing another miner in systems that used to have many.

Well, at least there's ore now :)



Cloud, meet silver lining.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
TravisWB
#86 - 2012-03-20 18:08:50 UTC
I remember when we had hisec mining bots back when the ore of the day was Plagio and then Scord.
I remember when nearly every Ice system in hisec would have 150+ miners on the ice.

I recall that CCP did begin some program that turned out to be pretty effective at removing actual bots as toons that we all knew locally as bots went away and never came back.

That was well over a year ago, maybe even 2 years by now.

I also remember when hisec began to be swarmed with red flagged pilots coming in from null at the beginning of the ganking that has now become rampant.

These days you can't even dare to recruit anyone that is an unknown as they are very likely a ganker waiting for an opportunity to gank a corpmates strategic cruiser when they get a chance. It happens.

It appears that the game has tilted too far towards the killboard, which is a perverse measure of success at best and the reason to exist at all at worst.

These days rich hisec asteroid belts no longer have numerous miners in system, no noob wreck scavengers or budding ratters. No small mining frigates or mining noob cruisers.

Ice belt systems in hisec now normally have closer to a dozen miners rather than what was once ten times that number.

The bots are long gone. Stop lieing to yourselves.
Adunh Slavy
#87 - 2012-03-20 18:14:07 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.



That's an excuse. You can pretend that it is not if you want to, and I am sure all the "pirates", nice and safe in high sec, will agree with this old canard. Why wouldn't they? Any statement that helps tilt mechanics in their favor is always true.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Momoyo
Rivinshield Trading Inc.
#88 - 2012-03-20 18:18:05 UTC
The main problem that hurt miners started with bots which drove down prices and discouraged miners. The alloys drove down prices even more. Now there increasing public backlash from the community against botters which I think is responsible for the suicide ganking. Its not really a problem its just a way of life but it discourages even more people from mining, especially new players that dont understand it.

Eventually when and if CCP ever addresses the botting issue in a real way there will be a transition period where there will be a scarcity of minerals and miners. Things will balance out in the end though and maybe mining will be a real profession again.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#89 - 2012-03-20 18:18:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:

What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.



That's an excuse. You can pretend that it is not if you want to, and I am sure all the "pirates", nice and safe in high sec, will agree with this old canard. Why wouldn't they? Any statement that helps tilt mechanics in their favor is always true.


I'm sure you only use the hotel mechanic in Monopoly as an excuse for griefing people with Boardwalk. You are a hypocrite.

This is a game, we don't need "an excuse" for following the rules. To imply otherwise demonstrates a lack of comprehension of the concept of gaming, to be quite frank.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Adunh Slavy
#90 - 2012-03-20 18:19:38 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:

What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.



That's an excuse. You can pretend that it is not if you want to, and I am sure all the "pirates", nice and safe in high sec, will agree with this old canard. Why wouldn't they? Any statement that helps tilt mechanics in their favor is always true.


I'm sure you only use the hotel mechanic in Monopoly as an excuse for griefing people with Boardwalk. You are a hypocrite.

This is a game, we don't need "an excuse" for following the rules. To imply otherwise demonstrates a lack of comprehension of the concept of gaming, to be quite frank.



Aww boo hoo, did I **** all over your canard? I'm sorry, try another one.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#91 - 2012-03-20 18:20:41 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:

What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.



That's an excuse. You can pretend that it is not if you want to, and I am sure all the "pirates", nice and safe in high sec, will agree with this old canard. Why wouldn't they? Any statement that helps tilt mechanics in their favor is always true.


I'm sure you only use the hotel mechanic in Monopoly as an excuse for griefing people with Boardwalk. You are a hypocrite.

This is a game, we don't need "an excuse" for following the rules. To imply otherwise demonstrates a lack of comprehension of the concept of gaming, to be quite frank.



Aww boo hoo, did I **** all over your canard? I'm sorry, try another one.


Thank you, your tears are delicious.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#92 - 2012-03-20 18:30:01 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.



What piracy, Cipher? All they do is blow you up and wait for you to rant on the chat about it.
Adunh Slavy
#93 - 2012-03-20 18:33:19 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Thank you, your tears are delicious.


Aww, nice try. But, doesn't work.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#94 - 2012-03-20 18:40:17 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:


What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.



Cipher Jones is a dumbass.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#95 - 2012-03-20 19:20:05 UTC
I've noticed quite a bit less mining activity on the loops I run scanning for radar sites.
When ratting, it's less common now to see belts that have been stripped of certain ore types, or are gone completely. Generally the belts are pretty fat.
Before Crucible, this was quite a bit different, and the release of this last update seems to be the starting point for the decrease in activity.
I think the reason for it has nothing to do with the T3 cruisers (I will openly admit that pre-Crucible, I was convinced that they would be the primary tool for ganks). Increases in ganking have little or nothing to do with the hybrid buffs, as many gank ships I see are still the good ole' Thrasher.
The primary issue now, from what I can see, is that it's just quite profitable to gank. Especially mackinaws.
When you can fit a Cat or Thrasher with T1 guns, cycle mods and a scram, you are paying out around 2mil Isk. Take it to a 0.5 ice belt, gank a Mack well before Concord gets there, and have an alt loot 'n salvage.
The salvage drops often will pay off the 2mil isk quite easily, and that doesn't include the income from any ice that the ship is carrying.
Sure, some people gank "for the tears", but they'd be foolish to not have a friend loot and salvage. I've watched people with -10 sec status do this sort of thing repeatedly by themselves with a covops trained alt who does the warp-to and salvage.
Use 2 Destroyers and a tanked Mack or cargo-fit Hulk will still go down in the half minute you have to pop them.

Destroyers are also quick with warping. You have 20 to 30 seconds to get from 0m/s to 75%(warp) from the moment someone comes in system (on d-scan or not). If they've got a cloaked alt sitting next to you, you can kiss your ship goodbye. More often than not, the cloaky alts are quite clean for killboard stats. They look like any average non-threatening player.

Moving to low-sec is an option, but there is still the issue of travel time vs. warp/align time. The rats in low make a better tank imperative, and the usual mining set up of using a hauler or Orca becomes a problem. Sure, the Orca can remote boost from a safe-ish spot, but then you have to warp to and from the Orca to dump ore, which makes the boost useless due to the amount of time lost while mining. On top of all that, Jaspet is only a tiny little up-tick in the "reward" of mining in Lowsec, while the risk is considerably more for new miners.

In regards to making asteroid belts more plentiful as grav sites, it's a nice idea, but I see scanning ships every 20minutes (or less) when I run missions (I use d-scan. yes. In high-sec). There are a lot more people scanning now than before, and Hulks have a big enough sig radius that they are easy to pin down with lower scan skills. Of course it gets down to the same thing as what is currently going on anyway. Friendly +0 sec status pilot comes into the system, scans with core probes, sits cloaked in his covops, and then warps to each grav belt looking for miners. When he finds a miner, he gets up nice and close, and then his alts/friends pop in from the system next door and warp right to him.
Grav sites won't stop what is going on.

As for CCP, I think part of the problem is the employees who are in charge of dictating where the game goes. They are into ganking as well, so tilting things away from what they enjoy is the furthest from their minds.

tl;dr: Ganking is very profitable currently, so there's not much reason to *not* do it.

Profit favors the prepared
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#96 - 2012-03-20 19:24:38 UTC
TravisWB wrote:
I remember when we had hisec mining bots back when the ore of the day was Plagio and then Scord.
I remember when nearly every Ice system in hisec would have 150+ miners on the ice.

I recall that CCP did begin some program that turned out to be pretty effective at removing actual bots as toons that we all knew locally as bots went away and never came back.

That was well over a year ago, maybe even 2 years by now.

I also remember when hisec began to be swarmed with red flagged pilots coming in from null at the beginning of the ganking that has now become rampant.

These days you can't even dare to recruit anyone that is an unknown as they are very likely a ganker waiting for an opportunity to gank a corpmates strategic cruiser when they get a chance. It happens.

It appears that the game has tilted too far towards the killboard, which is a perverse measure of success at best and the reason to exist at all at worst.

These days rich hisec asteroid belts no longer have numerous miners in system, no noob wreck scavengers or budding ratters. No small mining frigates or mining noob cruisers.

Ice belt systems in hisec now normally have closer to a dozen miners rather than what was once ten times that number.

The bots are long gone. Stop lieing to yourselves.


I went through Outuni a few days back, think there was ninety something in local, no one talking, no one doing anything at all in fact except ice mining, there were about 60 mackinaws and stuff in space at the one ice belt. Bizzarely I saw a few pods too, warp in and just sit there, waiting for like 3 minutes, then warping back to a station, then reapeating this strange behaviour. Dunno what they were up to...

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#97 - 2012-03-20 19:28:04 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:


What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.



Cipher Jones is a dumbass.




IMHO only poor pirates are dumbasses.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#98 - 2012-03-20 19:31:27 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Bizzarely I saw a few pods too, warp in and just sit there, waiting for like 3 minutes, then warping back to a station, then reapeating this strange behaviour. Dunno what they were up to...

Something sick and filthy....Heh Heh Heh....
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2012-03-20 19:33:06 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:


What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.



Cipher Jones is a dumbass.


He certainly is but he's still a better poster than you.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-03-20 19:37:30 UTC
@op, if you are a miner, and there are fewer miners around, should you not celebrate?

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.