Ships & Modules

I like the idea of lowering the PG / CPU of Battlescruisers and making 1600mm Plates and possibly new XLSE cost in the area of 1000-1500 PG. To big to squeeze on Battlecruisers effectively making them use Cruiser Mods like they are supposed too. Along with the Drake rebalance give the Cane 7 Guns one utility slot and change the RoF Bonus to optimal / falloff or tracking or something. Then bring the Tier 1's in line with the new Tier 2's.

I also want to see Cruiser Damage go up like 6 HAM Caracal or 6 Blaster Thorax. Redesigned bonuses like the Cap bonus turning into a Damage Bonus on the Maller or a Range Bonus on the Omen. Reajust Fitting and increase Cruiser Cap to the area of 1750-2250. More Drone bay coverage like 25m3 for the Maller. Moa 6 Rails, Optimal / Damage Bonus. Bring the Logi Cruisers to the level of Tier 3, slots / fitting / cap / EHP and change their secondary bonuses to Logi. Augoror with Cap / Armor Range Roll Bonus and one Armor Rep Bonus and another Cap Transfer. Exequror Armor Range / Tranking Link Roll with one Armor Rep Bonus and another Tracking Link. Basically T1 versions of T2 Logi running Medium Reps without the resist profile. EWAR cruisers can use love too like a third bonus skilled by EWAR Skill and 4 Hardpoints. For instance Blackbird, 5% Hybrid Damage, 10% ECM Strength per Cruiser level, 10% ECM Range per Electronic Warfare Level. Belicose, 5% Projectile Damage, 10% Painter Strength per Cruiser level, 10% Web Range per Electronic Warfare Level.

For HAC's give the same such as 6 Guns but they have 2 Damage Bonuses and a second other bonus. 50% MWD Sig Bloom like Assault Ships and their T2 resist profiles will make them fast hitters that can gank and tank like Battlecruisers but smaller and faster. Their counter won't be T1 Battlecruisers but T2 ones. They would effectively become fast heavy skirmish ships compared to Cruisers being just skirmish ships.

Finally increase Cruiser Speed / Agility by a little bit and cut Rig Penalties out all together. Make it so Armor Cruisers can outrun Shield Battlecruisers and Shield Cruisers are just mildly faster then Armor Cruisers. Without 1600mm Plates it becomes a game of Shield Damage vs Armor Utility with Sig increases coming from Shield Extenders and Mass Increases coming from plates. Balance Tier 3 Speed to be slightly below Cruisers but quicker then Tier 2's.

The finisher, boost Battleship Sig Rad 10-20% depending on the Ship and decrease their MWD Cap Use. That should help them chase and cover the Shield Rig Lock loss as well as make most Battlecruisers quicker to lock whilst Cruisers still have time to burn away.

The result is that Cruisers will be all around formidable ships in all area's. Speed, Tank, Damage, Cap, Utility and Range. Standard Battlecruisers will be less effective then Cruisers at Skirmish Warfare but will be stronger in Tank and Damage with a heavier weakness to battleships. Tier 3's will be better at range while keeping said range being the major requirement of survival. The biggest part of this proposal is to move Cruisers to the center which is currently held by Shield Battlecruisers.

Of course Frigates are being buffed in the new expansion as well and they will have to be sure to not make them toothless against Cruisers.

They can't WTFpwn frigs that well. Interceptors can tackle BCs really well, and AFs can get all up in BC's faces and break tracking. Killing destroyers is by design -- destroyers aren't supposed to be effective against anything above their size.

However, BCs (especially nano'd) are only a little slower than crusiers, don't cost that much more (after insurance) and they pack FAR more punch (2x more). That makes the lost agility worth the extra punch in almost every case, and makes it impossible for cruisers to even compare to BCs.

Nerf BC speed/agility (or just mass) to only be slightly better than BS, and the problems go away.

I don't like the idea of lowering Battlecruiser DPS or tracking against smaller targets. I think that Cruiser and the Tank Battlecruiser DPS should be close to on par. The difference being Faster Cruiser Speed and tank.

The 700DPS Ship, lets face it a Thorax isn't that good. It has to role into Brawl Range with a 20k EHP Tank and against a 700 DPS Cane with double the tank that starts hitting it from 20km out you are at 25% health before you get off a shot. I like the idea of a 700 DPS Armor Rax with 35k EHP that closes range quick and gets some blows in or a 900 DPS shield Rax that applies a good amount of Damage before death. Still at a disadvantage to Battlecruisers but not as toothless.

Most of the other Cruisers that don't sacrifice all tank sit at 350-500 DPS which is okay but making that 450-600 isn't going to hurt Battlecruisers EHP and now slighter DPS advantage. A 35k EHP Ship that does 550 DPS and moves quick will not out DPS / Tank a BC but it will have the tools to fight and a larger window of escape / catch. The weakness is Frigate tackle forcing it Fight BC's instead of run as it should be. The biggest concern is buffing Frigates to balance out the change.

Worse then that, the Cane runs circles around any serious Armor fit and actually at base speed outruns the Moa.

You remember last night when I told you that people ignoring tracking are dumb, and you responded that people ignoring sig radius are dumb?

Yeah.

-Liang

Just a personal opinion here, but I think BCs are used as a hammer: one quick tool for everything. Low skills, big bang. Like any ship, BCs have their place.

That is true but it isn't all Battlecruisers used as the Hammer. It is Shield Tier Battlecruisers.

I truly believe that the Hammer or the center should move to Cruisers. The Heavy Hammer should go to Battlecruisers in terms of all around the all around stats that make the Shield Battlecruiser good IE" Utility, Speed, Agility, Fitting, Range should be a more average advantage the Cruiser with good all around EHP DPS stats to cap it off.

In return Battlcruisers keep an acceptable level of Mobility with greater tank and DPS. They become the Sledge Hammer that requires precision to swing. In return Cruisers get the Center currently occupied by the Cane and Drake.

Yes Battlecruisers have their place and they should keep that place. Just adjust it so that place is not the center.

IE: Subcap list.

Frigate: Light
Destroyer: Light Medium
Cruiser: Medium
Battlecruiser: Medium Heavy
Battleship: Heavy

With Light regarding speed, avoidance and accuracy at the expense of range, DPS, tank and Heavy as DPS / Tank / Range at the expense of speed, avoidance and accuracy.

It is akin to what we have now except Battlecruisers have a few to many advantages which can be mitigated with buffs to Cruisers and Frigates to close in the gaps in the list and even light targeted nerfs like the current Drake one as well as buffs to the Tier 1 BC's.

It seems to be the strategy CCP is going for and I approve.


I have a bit of a different perspective on range. I am okay giving Sniper HAC to Tier 3's. Make it so that faster, Tankier HAC's are better in the 40-70 KM Range. With 2 Damage Bonuses they put out the DPS but are smaller, more agile and harder to kill. Leave the long range stuff to Tier 3's and Battleships instead of making then try to compete.

Make them Ships designed to take out Gangs of Tier 1/2 Battlecruisers, close range Cruisers and Destroyers. General stuff and leave long range f 70+ to L Sized weapons at the issue that HAC's can close range and if they get a warp in you are not regaining range on the field.

Make Cruisers, HAC's and Battlecruisers from short to medium range ships and and L Guns Ships Medium to Long Range but make sure none of them can out run Cruisers and HAC's flat out.

I'd probably fly that Zealot every day of the week, sporting an AB and killing everything in sight from range.

No reason to do anything except that someone prefers it.

Reasons I prefer it.

* More Role variety in Cruisers currently gimped by stats.
* Reintroduces under used ships without taking away usefulness of other ships.
* Lowers costs of Effective PvP entry with effect diminished return increases by cost.
* Boosts effective EWAR / Support on the base level without lessoning the increase f more advanced T2 versions.
* Brings the 8 Battlecruisers in line with each other without stepping on Cruisers toes or limiting their heavier role.

I would prefer a change for those reasons. I think a lot of other people would to so I will say so.


I know and adjusting HAC / BC Damage, Speed and Tank to further increase the distinction is a good thing.

1) Yes and I have given my opinion on how to remove the Tier System.
2) Yes and I have given my opinion on how to remove the Tier System.
3) Base stats over utility. They should have fewer slots and be cheaper but their effectiveness should be increased.
4) And their is only one EWAR Cruiser, the rest are toothless.
5) It will also be helped by the Drake rebalance and a slight adjustment to the Cane.

You can claim that the Tier System with no rebalance of mechanic will fix everything but I would like them to go a bit further to close the gaps between classes.

Yet the 50km pulse Zealots you want are? I don't think that is necessary with light Damage and speed buffs.

You can get 45km pulse zealots pretty easy. Its the 80km I want (but know I should never, ever have).

-Liang