These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

A conversation I wish I had a long time ago....

First post
Author
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#1 - 2012-03-19 16:07:15 UTC
Last night was one of the most interesting and informative nights of my entire campaign, and an example of the type of experience that keeps making my time as a CSM candidate worthwhile. One of the real pleasures has been getting to know pilots I might not have otherwise met, and having a chance to share stories and talk about what we love most about EVE.

The subject of the nights discussion – Incursions. I was approached by a pilot who put me in contact with Phattecia, a community leader who took interest my campaign and talked with me at great length about the future of the Incursion feature. Phatt shared with me much about the history of the incursion running, the formation of the competing shield and armor sub-communities, and I found the many cultural similarities between Incursion and militia pilots fascinating. I also realized how many parallel challenges we face in our quest for feature iterations, including being stereotyped and marginalized by the general player base.

I was particularly impressed by Phatt's decision to lead his fleets using tactics specifically tailored to reinforce good PvP habits, and the way he used Incursion-running as a stepping stone to help soften the curve for pilots looking to get involved with PvP. I've also always had a particular interest in Incursion AI, and its potential uses for enhancing PvE activity elsewhere in the game, and I particularly appreciated the wealth of information Phattecia was willing to share for me to bookmark for future reference. There was no way I could cover all the homework he's given me in a single night, but I certainly have my work cut out for me.

Most importantly, Phatt took the initiative to strike up a conversation, regardless of the "final" hour of the CSM elections here. He expressed frustration that the Incursion community doesn't have a candidate willing to commit the time to listen to their concerns and be an advocate and supporter on CSM7.

Phatt‘s dedication to his community and willingness to take a few hours to strike up a conversation with a stranger reminded me a lot of myself 6 months ago when I really started getting involved with learning how the CSM works and how I could make a difference. CSM6 members did the Faction Warfare community a favor by passing my feedback to the developers, I am willing to pay the deed forward and invest the time to make sure Incursion enthusiasts are heard as well.

When I launched my campaign I made a commitment to represent the interests of empire space, and to serve as a voice for unrepresented groups, providing an ear wherever needed. I told Phattecia I would honor this by pledging to support the Incursion communities - armor and shield alike, through listening to your concerns and speaking on their behalf as a CSM member.

I know I'm a stranger to most of you, take some time to check out my blog if you have a few minutes and learn some more about me and my work. If you are still looking for a candidate willing to commit to supporting Incursion runners this coming year, I’d greatly appreciate your vote. However, what's most important to me is that we keep the conversation going, election business aside.

Both of the feature-communities that Phatt and myself are interested in improving face similar challenges in terms of sustaining activity levels, creating long term appeal, and the balancing of fleet sizes and rewards. I look forward to speaking more with those of you that regularly run Incursions, as I think there's a lot of lessons our militia members can learn from your pilots’ discipline, communication, security, and preparedness. Don't be a stranger, send me a mail if you have something you'd like to share!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-03-19 16:59:40 UTC
ok nerd
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-03-19 17:28:40 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:
ok nerd

Still sore?
Takashi Kaeda
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-03-19 18:12:07 UTC
nerf incursions
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2012-03-19 18:25:12 UTC
Takashi Kaeda wrote:
nerf incursions


An entirely predictable response that's quickly growing stale. That's why I found it interesting to actually talk some leaders of the community that runs incursions, and learn a lot about the reasons pilots enjoy the feature beyond just the monetary rewards.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

chrome diopside
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#6 - 2012-03-19 18:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: chrome diopside
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
He expressed frustration that the Incursion community doesn't have a candidate willing to commit the time to listen to their concerns and be an advocate and supporter on CSM7.


I'd like to point out - again - that PsychoBitch actually flies Incursions. I lead a small armor fleet community myself having come from NPO and we assist TDF/BtL with Mom fights whenever our numerous wars permit us. PB actually has a lot to say about incursions in his campaign thread and in his personal web page which is linked on the candidate list.

Unlike the vast majority who just want the farming stopped so that players cannot make decent isk outside of nullsec, he takes a view that balancing the various sites better to encourage folk out of the vanguard systems and into the assault sites is more beneficial long term. While the enormous amounts of isk being paid in CONCORD bounties will have to dry up eventually, he doesn't believe in penalising players for getting their fleets maximised for profit.

He is a supportive voice for the Incursion community.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-03-19 18:49:05 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Takashi Kaeda wrote:
nerf incursions


An entirely predictable response that's quickly growing stale. That's why I found it interesting to actually talk some leaders of the community that runs incursions, and learn a lot about the reasons pilots enjoy the feature beyond just the monetary rewards.

What Hans means is...

No.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2012-03-19 19:39:15 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:

What Hans means is...

No.


Yeah, I'm not really the candidate for those that just want one word answers to complex problems. Sorry.

chrome diopside wrote:

I'd like to point out - again - that PsychoBitch actually flies Incursions. I lead a small armor fleet community myself having come from NPO and we assist TDF/BtL with Mom fights whenever our numerous wars permit us. PB actually has a lot to say about incursions in his campaign thread and in his personal web page which is linked on the candidate list.

Unlike the vast majority who just want the farming stopped so that players cannot make decent isk outside of nullsec, he takes a view that balancing the various sites better to encourage folk out of the vanguard systems and into the assault sites is more beneficial long term. While the enormous amounts of isk being paid in CONCORD bounties will have to dry up eventually, he doesn't believe in penalising players for getting their fleets maximised for profit.

He is a supportive voice for the Incursion community.


Sure. And to be fair, it sounds like a LOT of candidates have claimed to support the incursion community. Darius III made a hillarious and well-documented attempt at pandering for their votes. Whether the other candidates are even electable or have the work ethic that indicates that they'll actually follow through is a different story, but that judgement call can only be made by incursion runners themselves.

I hope EVERYONE gets to the polls in the next 24 hours, regardless of who they vote for. I was just really excited about the stuff Phatt and I had a chance to talk about last night, so I'm hoping to get to know everyone better in the weeks after the election, if not before. Incursion mechanics hold great potential for PvE improvements elsewhere in the game, and some of ideas being tossed around for improving fleet management would benefit the PvP crowd just as much. I have as much to gain by getting to know the Incursion community better, as they do by having a sympathetic ear on the next CSM.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#9 - 2012-03-19 19:57:17 UTC
I'm not sure how you went from someone I thought would represent Malcanis' High Sec Manifesto on the CSM to someone defending Incursions, but I sure am glad I didn't vote for you now.
Draco Llasa
Fors Fortis
#10 - 2012-03-19 20:06:28 UTC
I find this OP very interesting. I personally had conversations with Phat, and a list of 10+ other community leaders in the public incursion community back in September. As a result i laid out a multi-page feedback report to CCP and helps a full CSM Summit topic on Incursions during the Winter CSM summit where i almost exclusively talked directly with the various involved CCP developers to represent the issues and concerns held by the community.

Since then i have continued working and talking to many people and lead FCs to collect feedback, posting on incursion forums to collect info and am campaigning that part of my campaign is to CONTINUE that representation.

So to clarify the Incursion community has gained representation 6+ months ago and if retain a seat it will continue to be represented. It is good to see more people interested in supporting the community so that is a good thing.



Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-19 20:14:28 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:

What Hans means is...

No.


Yeah, I'm not really the candidate for those that just want one word answers to complex problems. Sorry.

While that's certainly an edgy, positive soundbyte, it makes for a terrible platform if you actually stick to it. It's good to make yourself sound like you're the candidate for the discerning, intelligent voter, because that makes the non-discerning, non-intelligent voters want to vote for you; and, by virtue of the way statistics works, that makes up the majority of all voters. But if you actually stick to that platform, which I doubt you will (in which case you're a liar like most politicians) then you are going to alienate the non-discerning, non-intelligent blokes while simultaneously inviting the discerning, intelligent gentlemen to peruse your wares and potentially discard them for being found wanting. You don't want that.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2012-03-19 20:20:51 UTC
Xorv wrote:
I'm not sure how you went from someone I thought would represent Malcanis' High Sec Manifesto on the CSM to someone defending Incursions, but I sure am glad I didn't vote for you now.


I don't see why the two are incompatible in anyway. Malcanis made a specific point of talking about the need to protect casual game play opportunities in high sec, and provide challenges to veterans and new players alike. Much of what I discussed with Phatt was along these lines, essentially how we can deliver more Incursion content to players and keep those that are interested entertained, without having to resort to agreements and treaties to prolong incursions artificially because CCP refuses to deal with the length of Incursions in the first place. It is remarkably similar to the challenge we've faced as militia leaders tying to find enough fleets and fights to keep our pilots entertained day after day.

Incursion, like every other expansion in recent history, was full of good ideas that were plopped onto the server than neglected. They are just as in need of regular maintenance as any other feature we're working to restore to its original intent.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-03-19 20:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:

What Hans means is...

No.


Yeah, I'm not really the candidate for those that just want one word answers to complex problems. Sorry.

While that's certainly an edgy, positive soundbyte, it makes for a terrible platform if you actually stick to it. It's good to make yourself sound like you're the candidate for the discerning, intelligent voter, because that makes the non-discerning, non-intelligent voters want to vote for you; and, by virtue of the way statistics works, that makes up the majority of all voters. But if you actually stick to that platform, which I doubt you will (in which case you're a liar like most politicians) then you are going to alienate the non-discerning, non-intelligent blokes while simultaneously inviting the discerning, intelligent gentlemen to peruse your wares and potentially discard them for being found wanting. You don't want that.


Or you could just see it as inteligently entering the subject to debate issues and enter a greater discourse with the players of EvE rather than prescibing or assuming how things should be. For which some other candidates would simply just assume supreme mandate to simply choose irrespective of player involvement. And their minions therefore unable to culturally accept an alternative approach to politics.

Oh wait that's pretty much the point of the thread I think, or has that escaped you. A candidate spending time with members of the comunity to reflect on issues and their concerns in detail.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2012-03-19 21:08:22 UTC
Xorv wrote:
I'm not sure how you went from someone I thought would represent Malcanis' High Sec Manifesto on the CSM to someone defending Incursions, but I sure am glad I didn't vote for you now.


Malcanis rather likes Incursions as gameplay, actually. I said so right there in the Manifesto. But I certainly think that there's a case for iteration - both of the gameplay and the rewards. Incursions were a great addition to the game, but they're overdue a balancing pass (just as anomalies needed two of) and an update in how they work.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2012-03-19 21:20:20 UTC
Easy there Grumpy, Lyris is my INTERNET SPACESHIP FRIEND FOREVER!!

If he wants to stop by and offer some very intellectual-sounding advice, no harm done. I'm sure he's just trying to help with all of his heart. Blink

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#16 - 2012-03-19 21:54:11 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Easy there Grumpy, Lyris is my INTERNET SPACESHIP FRIEND FOREVER!!

If he wants to stop by and offer some very intellectual-sounding advice, no harm done. I'm sure he's just trying to help with all of his heart. Blink


Bolded, italicized and underlined the important bit there.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-03-19 21:54:19 UTC
*waves white flag* I'm sorry Lyris *hugs*

How many marshmallows would you like in your hot cocoa?
Takashi Kaeda
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-03-19 21:56:58 UTC
There's nothing 'complex' about the problem.

EVE is about risk vs reward.

You should not be able to outpace nullsec/wormhole isk generation without undertaking an equal or greater amount of risk.

Whether this leads to mechanic changes, buffs/nerfs etc doesn't really matter but the end goal still has to be a balanced and sensible risk/reward progression.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-03-19 22:14:48 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
*waves white flag* I'm sorry Lyris *hugs*
No worries! Now we can be space friends forever, too!

Quote:
How many marshmallows would you like in your hot cocoa?

Two please!

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-03-19 22:19:55 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Easy there Grumpy, Lyris is my INTERNET SPACESHIP FRIEND FOREVER!!

If he wants to stop by and offer some very intellectual-sounding advice, no harm done. I'm sure he's just trying to help with all of his heart. Blink


Bolded, italicized and underlined the important bit there.

You, sir, are a clever devil.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

12Next page