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GMs - "We can't figure it out on our own. You do it"

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Grouchy Smurf
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2012-03-19 19:40:20 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:


Triangles, squares, pentagons, hexagons, howfarcanmylatinnumbersgo-agons


They are Greek numbers.
Not that it matters, we are almost as dead as the Roman Empire.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#102 - 2012-03-19 20:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Cyniac wrote:


In fact the system penalizes mercenary corps which try to join existing conflicts. On the contrary conflicts should be allowed to escalate much more easily. This would have two interesting effects

1) High-sec wars would have the potential to escalate rapidly with friends and allies of corps joining into the conflicts which would generate a lot more targets for everyone to worry about - this benefits both the combat corps (more pew pew!) and the non-combat corps (more friends with guns to protect or distract from the bad guys

2) People would pause and think just a wee bit more before entering a war because they will not know exactly what they would be getting into, and how far things would escalate out of control

By simply implementing this kind of concept you instantly create a lot more opportunities for fighting, as well as make some forms of play far more viable, e.g. anti-griefer crusader corps etc.



I think this is a VERY good idea

How about this

Aggressor declares war on a corporation. This is non-consensual (it HAS to be, not to ruin EVE), but the cost is related to the sizes of the attacking and defending corporations: It costs more for larger aggressors and even more for declaring war on smaller corporations. This should scale exponentially.

But the defender then has the option of asking for help from other corporations who then can partially join the fight on the defending side for free. These assisting corporations can assign individual players to join the war, so not to endanger their industry and newbie characters (this would increase the amount of valiant knights in shining armor tenfold)

Big corporations going, unfairly, after smaller corporations, would not only have to pay a huge war-bill, it would also mean they suddenly could be countered by a ton of PvP-able pilots from other corporations who would not have to expose their corporation's soft underbelly to do so (reason that keeps them back now).

Result: way more pew-pew in empire!

Some sidenotes:
-Corporations maintaining a POS should make it a lot cheaper to be declared war upon. If you can't defend one, you don't deserve one. Simple as that!
- Joining the aggressors side requires another war declaration, increased by any current wars. No option of free joining in for them. And no matter how many assisting PvP-pilots are helping defend, they don't count to the size of the defendant.
- Add options for declaring different levels of warfare like pos-only, no podding or excluding high-sec. Each with their own pricetag.
- War on alliances should work pretty much the same as they do now. Maybe adding the 'big vs. small' warbill-size, but only between alliances and no 'free assistance'. War upon an alliance should be relatively cheap for corporations. An alliance that can't defend itself against a single corporations, either by having a decent PvP-corporation under their wing, or throwing money at mercenaries does NOT deserve to exist.

I've done enough empire wardeccing myself and occasionally my corp bit off more then a dozen pilots could chew. But I'm absolutely convinced that the single best thing that can happen to a carebear corp is getting wardecced. It gives them a reason to stop playing this MMO as a single player grinding-game (something inevitably ending in a borequit or ragequit). Internal corp= cohesion is strengthened, and the stupid or lazy players that are only dead weight can be easily identified and shed. It are the badly-run corps that go fall apart, truly a mercy in disguise for its members for it gives them a chance to join a better corporation.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Glarealot
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2012-03-19 20:46:12 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Orator de Umbras wrote:

The problem with that argument is that a corporation will not declare war on another corporation that can defend itself.


Exactly right. The war dec mechanics as they now stand favor people picking and choosing their targets, and only attacking /deccing targets when they know there is no risk to themselves.

How often have I been war-decced only to have the supposed aggressor corp sit in a station all day the minute I show any signs of putting up a real fight? EVE is supposed to be all about PvP, but all I see is cowardice. There really are no "good fites" left anymore. You have all turned into care-bears, and kill-mail whoring has become the death of EVE.

I recommend a visit to null where you will quickly be stripped of those fancy ships, modules and implants, and you will stop caring again. Then maybe the good fights will come back.


This, entirely. Wardecs are a borderline risk-free mechanic that need to be looked into.

EVE is a dangerous place, and that shouldn't exempt people who want to pretend like they can PvP by picking fights with random 1 man corps while avoiding the big boys.

.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#104 - 2012-03-20 04:20:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Slighty digressing with this post, but I have to agree. Hi-sec pvpers are pathetic at the best of times; you want to pvp, then grow a pair and find a system with a security status something less then 0.5.

Why should they go to ≤0.4 when they're already in a PvP area?


Your missing the point of the post.

Hi-sec "pvpers" don't want pvp. They want ganks and grief. They spend all day ganking miners and haulers and other assorted carebears/ noobs. If anyone actually offers up an actual fight to them, they run. As fast and as hard as they can.

As I said: hi-sec "pvpers" - pathetic.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#105 - 2012-03-20 09:46:14 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Slighty digressing with this post, but I have to agree. Hi-sec pvpers are pathetic at the best of times; you want to pvp, then grow a pair and find a system with a security status something less then 0.5.

Why should they go to ≤0.4 when they're already in a PvP area?


Your missing the point of the post.

Hi-sec "pvpers" don't want pvp. They want ganks and grief. They spend all day ganking miners and haulers and other assorted carebears/ noobs. If anyone actually offers up an actual fight to them, they run. As fast and as hard as they can.

As I said: hi-sec "pvpers" - pathetic.




I would also say that all people who create bald avatars are impotent in real life, but of course we all know that generalisations are bad, right?

I have checked your killboard stats, and the vast majority of the stuff you have done (in fact, all but two of your kills are in 0.0) is in large, mindless nullbear blobs, wherein your combat role is comparatively limited compared to that of a smaller gang operating in lowsec or, indeed, in a high sec war. The mechanics and strategies of combat in 0.0 are really quite different to lowsec and high sec wars/duels/small gang work/solo/whatever, but you would know that if you had participated extensively in either of these two things.

However, given that your experience is comparatively limited on these fronts I would suggest refraining from commenting on them with lame one-liners.
Pop Bear
Doomheim
#106 - 2012-03-20 10:04:58 UTC
Information
From: Ripley12
Sent: 2012.03.11 15:01
To: **********

I have seen a potential in harvesting some isk by declaring war with your corporation. im aware of that this probably will make things abit more complicated than you thought your future would have looked.

I know you guys make isk in your way, and probably good at that.
I make isk the way i am good at. Either nuking down a few ships, Or of caurse getting a fair ransom.

I can agree that solving this matter quick is good for both. But this is what i do to make isk.

Ether pay this corp 100 milj( debatable depending on your reason) and i`ll leave your matter behind and move to next corp in line.
Or dont but then i make the War-dec within 24-78 hours.






I got this mail last week on an alt isk grinding corp I've got, I set up a dec shield just in case, and sent him a reply telling him to go f**k himself. Oddly enough no dec yetRoll
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#107 - 2012-03-20 19:00:48 UTC
Gorki Andropov wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Slighty digressing with this post, but I have to agree. Hi-sec pvpers are pathetic at the best of times; you want to pvp, then grow a pair and find a system with a security status something less then 0.5.

Why should they go to ≤0.4 when they're already in a PvP area?


Your missing the point of the post.

Hi-sec "pvpers" don't want pvp. They want ganks and grief. They spend all day ganking miners and haulers and other assorted carebears/ noobs. If anyone actually offers up an actual fight to them, they run. As fast and as hard as they can.

As I said: hi-sec "pvpers" - pathetic.




I would also say that all people who create bald avatars are impotent in real life, but of course we all know that generalisations are bad, right?

I have checked your killboard stats, and the vast majority of the stuff you have done (in fact, all but two of your kills are in 0.0) is in large, mindless nullbear blobs, wherein your combat role is comparatively limited compared to that of a smaller gang operating in lowsec or, indeed, in a high sec war. The mechanics and strategies of combat in 0.0 are really quite different to lowsec and high sec wars/duels/small gang work/solo/whatever, but you would know that if you had participated extensively in either of these two things.

However, given that your experience is comparatively limited on these fronts I would suggest refraining from commenting on them with lame one-liners.


Again you missunderstand. Do not think that I am commenting as some elite-pvper because I am not. I am however a rather elite-carebear, and I am well aware of the nature of so-called hi-sec pvp, which usually involves the griefers dropping to npc corps so fast that we don't even have time to get locater agents on them.

Anyone who is actually interested in fights will have no problem finding them; no point in hi-sec is but a couple of jumps from a low-sec gate. Hell, you can even get to nul-sec from hi-sec in some places. But why do that when you can hide in hi-sec and boast of your prowest in ganking yet another miner.....

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#108 - 2012-03-20 20:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Serge Bastana wrote:
GM's just follow CCP's rules since they're mostly volunteers and don't actually work for CCP to create the game.

They are unpaid customer service providersShockedShockedShocked?!?!?! That explains the 1-2 week petitions responses ... CCP pay your slaves better or use a better whip!!!Big smile
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#109 - 2012-03-20 21:10:36 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:


War-dec mechanics are a bit crap at the moment, but the op should not blame GMs for that.



Got to agree the problem is 1 or 2 paygrades above the GM's ( especially if they're unpaid :) Blink
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Eryn Velasquez
#110 - 2012-04-02 21:45:31 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
HOWEVER, it cannot be denied that the wardec system as it currently exists is a tool that is very often used for behavior that I, personally, would call griefing.


Any non douchebag would also call it that. The underlying problem is clearly that New Eden is full of douchebags.


I would add that further to this, we're not being given a long enough leash.


Only to prevent you mangy mutts to **** too many trees Big smile

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Piwat King
Piwat Explorations Enterprises
#111 - 2012-04-02 21:59:03 UTC
All GM's do is this

You file petitions

1st GM to open it (not neccessarily reading it) scans it briefly, opens thier "approved CCP responses" program copy and paste and then hope the player leaves it at that.

If you persist, then they finally actually read the petition, and tell you to go away since they can't do anything while quoting the usual we don't have any record of server issues at this time.....

If you persist again and ask for an escalation - the next GM will always agree with the first GM hoping that you will just go away.

Further escalation gets you to a lead GM, which takes about a month to answer your petition, and they actually look into the issue and give you a decision based on what really happened. But usually it won't be in your favor as they follow the general rule that every player in EVE is a liar and is just trying to find some way to troll/ take advantage of the system.

They don't have any knowledge of bugs/issues and they don't care, they won't reimurse you unless there really was some sort of server issue/known exploit used. If it's a valid bug you're complaining about they will merely tell you to file a bug report which in turn will get you this message

"we're already aware of this issue thank you for your report."

The End.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#112 - 2012-04-02 22:12:48 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
rodyas wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Team Super Friends.
We will rock your world.


^^ Quoting for truth. They will. I know Paradox already rocked mine.


You and your guy's love triangles


Triangles, squares, pentagons, hexagons, howfarcanmylatinnumbersgo-agons


Many polygon names come from Greek.

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#113 - 2012-04-02 22:40:02 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
-Corporations maintaining a POS should make it a lot cheaper to be declared war upon. If you can't defend one, you don't deserve one. Simple as that!


If you can't afford to declare war on them, you don't deserve that POS kill.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2012-04-02 23:30:11 UTC
I've always through there should be a few 'types' of corps..

Industrial - Can't be wardeced, and can't Wardec others. Can only be part of 'Industrial' alliances with same restrictions, no shared aggro.. Basicly like a NPC corp.. and like an NPC corp, they should pay through the teeth for the pleasure.. Say a 10% across the board tax, and taxes on additional things, like contracts, refining, etc.

'Mission' - For mission runners, get some of the benefits.. Can wardec, can be wardeced, but can pay their way out of the dec, with a payoff to concord, And repaying the cost of the dec. Can't be done after the fact [ so once the war starts, they are in it for the long haul ], and also get taxed.. say 5%

'PVP' - A corp as it is now, no restrictions.. Can Dec, can be Deced.. No tax, etc.

And of course a drop to the whole decshield mechanic.. if your in a corp that can be deced, then your deced, suck up and deal, cause you had the choice before..

The goal being to make Industrial Corps barely profitable.. They get their 'safe' corp, but they will have a hard time competing against PVP corps that do industrial. Mission corps would just be something in between.. So changes and testing to find out what works best..


But there's no solution that will please everyone, or even most.. Just another idea..
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#115 - 2012-04-03 00:06:54 UTC
Sentinel Smith wrote:

But there's no solution that will please everyone, or even most.. Just another idea..


Everything is a result of a fight between two contrasting forces each doing the possible to skew such fight in their advantage.

On one side we have the extremist super harasser who can't play without griefing to hell.
On the other there's the carebar who would want to have complete immunity or an opt in PvP flag that he will never set to "on".

In the middle there are PvPers who want to pew pew, carebears with teeth, and a number of other intermediate setups.
CCP has to mediate between the extremes to make a game as much enjoyable for everybody as possible.

Everything should be possible at a cost (also called "compromise") and this is what EVE lacks ATM.
Putting all the rewards in the hard core griefer hands is as bad as removing all the risk in the full carebear hands.
It should cost / require more effort to be at one of those extremes than being in the middle.

At the moment it's not so. Either the extreme griefer had all the advantages plus be able to escape when things did not go as expected or the extreme carebear has all the advantages by now being able to use a dec shield.

BOTH have to suck bitter juice to earn the privilege to be at one of the opposite extremes. Therefore it should be easy for less harassing but more "general PvP" corps to engage and disengage than the extreme harasser.
It should be easy able to engage and disengage for more teethy carebears than full carebears.

This could be implemented with a scale of different war behaviors, where the attacker accepts a set of possible good and bad consequences and the defender can do the same. The more the good consequences the smaller the rewards and the higher the risk and vice versa.

I.e. 2 consensual PvP corps would dec in a "free for all" fashion as both accept everything in exchange of everything.

An attacker willing to get a "total war" meeting a defender who does not want to move a finger would exclude the former from some effects (say some immunities or opening the attacker to attack off neutrals) while the defender would have to give up to a fat sum of money or whatever "stingy" can be conceived.

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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-04-03 00:24:48 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
Until then, I fear that you will simply have to bear with the current game mechanics and the fact that corporations can indeed shed their wars at the moment by joining and leaving an alliance the same way as individual pilots can avoid wars altogether by staying in NPC corporations, as already indicated by GM Homonoia previously.


I find it very interesting that you immediately enforce some exploits, boomerang and webs on undock, but the exploits that you personally disagree with, war decs, you let people exploit to their hearts content

What happened to fair play? What happened to letting the developers make the rules and you enforce them. Why do I need to wait 2+ years for you to fix the war dec exploit but you'll ban boomerang exploiters immediately. We are both using current game mechanics.

You are inconsistent. You are not treating every player fairly. You are bypassing the developers and making your own rules up. You are corrupt.
Vyl Vit
#117 - 2012-04-03 06:55:51 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
This is incorrect. All GMs are paid CCP staff. However, we are not programmers and we do not have the capabilities to fix bugs or change code.
So...what's the holdup? Get in there and learn that code! Learn that code! Learn that code!

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-04-03 08:17:43 UTC
The next expansion will be dealing with all ward dec exploits... errr Unique unknown features. just wait a couple of months and you problems will be either solved or changed

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships