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a bit of PI confusion
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Kathamar
Galstrom Enterprises
#1 - 2012-02-24 17:49:53 UTC
PI question. I have more than enough Raw materials to meet my basic factory production needs. I have 6 basic factories feeding 3 advanced. basics pump out 20 units every 30 min. and advanced cycle 40 units every hour. yet the advanced are running out of mats (icons show either 0% or 50% of required mats). I'm not understanding how this is possible. all the mats are routed correctly. at 20 units every 30 min = 40 an hour, with advanced needing 40 an hour how can they run out? my basics require 9000 of each raw material between the 6 of them and I am extracting a bit over 10,000 of each. where has my math failed?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2012-02-24 18:10:03 UTC
because the maths don't work the way you think they do

ex -> st -> 2x BIF -> ST -> AIF -> LP

EX = extractor. Let's say it's pulling 12k units the first hour, then settles down at 9k/hour for the next few hours (or thereabouts, but you get the idea).

ST = Storage (or launchpad, if it's an old setup where storage sucked)
BIF = Basic Factory
AIF = advanced factory
LP = Launchpad

The first draw from the Extractor dumps 12,000 units into Storage, then this happens:
1. BIF 1 pulls 6k units (3k to process, and 3k reserve)
2. BIF 2 pulls 6k units (3k to process, and 3k reserve)
(wait half an hour)
3. BIF 1/2 finish their job, dump 20 P1 (each) into Storage. They now have 3k processing, and no reserve.
4. AIF pulls those 40 units and starts processing (the P1 #2 is either imported, or comes from another BIF chain we're ignoring). P1 #1 has no reserve, P1 #2 has 40 units in reserve.
(wait half an hour)
5. EX finishes another cycle, and drops 9k units into ST
6. BIF 1 finishes the cycle and pulls 6k units (3k process, 3k reserve)
6.5 ST has 20 units of P1
7. BIF 2 finishes the cycle and pulls 3k units (no reserve)
7.5 ST has 40 units of P1
8. AIF pulls 40 units of P1 #1 into reserve (now has reserves of both P1 and P2). Halfway through a cycle.
8.5 ST has 0 units of P1
(wait half an hour)
9. BIF 1 finishes a cycle, and starts on another (no reserve left)
9.5 ST has 20 units of P1
10. BIF 2 finishes a cycle, and idles as there was no reserve, and ST has nothing
10.5 ST has 40 units of P1
11. AIF finishes a cycle, and outputs 20 P2. Pulls 40x of both P1 materials from Storage
11.5 ST has 20 units of P2, 0 units of P1
(wait half an hour)
12. EX finishes another cycle, 9k units go to ST
13. BIF 2 pulls 6k units to fill processing and reserve
14. BIF 1 pulls 3k units to fill reserve.
14.2 BIF 1 finishes cycle, starts on reserve (now has 0 reserve)
14.5 ST has 20 units of P1

and so on until you run out of materials... or until your hourly yield can't sustain a BIF, and they start alternating in even more weird patterns.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Kathamar
Galstrom Enterprises
#3 - 2012-02-24 18:26:09 UTC
thank you it makes more sense now. however that means there really isnt any way to keep them going at 100%, 100% of the time. :( not without more extractor heads and basic factories anyway. oh well. guess I had to train upgrades 5 sooner or later :)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#4 - 2012-02-24 18:31:05 UTC
there is ... you just have to work things out to where you can handle a dip in production from time to time (i.e. the tail end of extraction programmes). Alternatively, you help your extractor out by buying a little of the cheap part off the market.

is P0 cheap enough to import, turn into P2, and still make a profit? then do that.
Is P1 #2 cheap enough to import, combine with the P1 you make, and etill turn a profit? then do that
Is it cheap/easy enough to mine P0 #1 and P0 #2 on two different planets and then combine them on a third? then do that

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2012-02-24 20:55:53 UTC
If you only supply a processor with exactly what it needs per cycle, it will eventually become idle and not operate continuously UNLESS its buffer is first filled.

I've experienced this with:
P1 -> P2a
P2a + import P2b -> P3
where the P3 factory would become idle. Once I imported enough P2a to fill the P3 buffer, the P3 factory operated continuously. I only had to do the import once, as long as all the buffers remained full.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#6 - 2012-02-25 02:27:56 UTC
this is common starting from scratch. what happens is the second run from the basic factory completes the same time the second run starts for the advanced factory. This is why the advanced factory never has more than 50% re load. because as soon as t hits 100% the advanced is cycling as well putting it back to 0% but starting the new cycle.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#7 - 2012-02-25 11:57:07 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
this is common starting from scratch. what happens is the second run from the basic factory completes the same time the second run starts for the advanced factory. This is why the advanced factory never has more than 50% re load. because as soon as t hits 100% the advanced is cycling as well putting it back to 0% but starting the new cycle.


THIS is the correct answer, I will confirm.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Kale Shannow
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-03-19 07:57:44 UTC
I've found that if the output from the extractors is large enough, the first few extractions then provide a big enough buffer of P0 for the processors to run from without running out

If you work out what your average extraction quantity is per extractor cycle, and make sure it's more than the amount required by your P1 processors you should be ok

I'm new to PI but that seems to be the way it's working for me.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#9 - 2012-03-19 11:20:50 UTC
Kale Shannow wrote:
I've found that if the output from the extractors is large enough, the first few extractions then provide a big enough buffer of P0 for the processors to run from without running out

If you work out what your average extraction quantity is per extractor cycle, and make sure it's more than the amount required by your P1 processors you should be ok

I'm new to PI but that seems to be the way it's working for me.



Just in TIME to help with advice needed on February 25, 2012.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#10 - 2012-03-19 12:24:13 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kale Shannow wrote:
I've found that if the output from the extractors is large enough, the first few extractions then provide a big enough buffer of P0 for the processors to run from without running out

If you work out what your average extraction quantity is per extractor cycle, and make sure it's more than the amount required by your P1 processors you should be ok

I'm new to PI but that seems to be the way it's working for me.



Just in TIME to help with advice needed on February 25, 2012.

lol ^_^

but true

Blog | Tutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
Kale Shannow
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-19 23:48:58 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kale Shannow wrote:
I've found that if the output from the extractors is large enough, the first few extractions then provide a big enough buffer of P0 for the processors to run from without running out

If you work out what your average extraction quantity is per extractor cycle, and make sure it's more than the amount required by your P1 processors you should be ok

I'm new to PI but that seems to be the way it's working for me.



Just in TIME to help with advice needed on February 25, 2012.



Ahhh crap. Sorry guys! Was only on the second page of the forum, didn't look at the date.