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Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet in the game???
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2012-03-18 19:17:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DarthNefarius wrote:
You want to biiiiiitch about out of porportion faucet that makes a few into super rich at the cost of the other 99.99% look at Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe..
You mean those things that don't inject any ISK? Those things that require significant (and continuous) investments in manpower to acquire and keep running? Those things that exist exclusively in nullsec where they create wars and the losses of cubic kilometres worth of assets? Yeah, no. They're not really an issue for the economy.

Nice straw man though — fits right in with the ridiculous straw man of the OP.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#62 - 2012-03-18 19:18:06 UTC
Azure Moonlight wrote:
Bounties arent a problem and never were and its not at all surprising they generate the most ISK. I think noone ever said otherwise. Incursions whereas are a problem, because they are totally out of proportion. A minimal number of players generating 1/3 of all bounty income on the server?
Thats a small bunch of suddenly VERY rich people. That is hurting the economy and not primarily bounty income and what is attached to it.

The problem with this mentality is that you're ignoring the fact that it's only the best people that get paid once systems start getting crowded. Not that vanguards don't need a nerf, because they do (and the larger sites need a buff) but come on, is it really that shocking that group oriented top tier PVEers make more isk doing PVE than people doing other forms of pve? Incursions SHOULD pay more than level 4s, and they SHOULD be about on-par with more risky forms of solo-pve. High rewards are an incentive to get people to work together, just as they're an incentive for people to take risks.

Complaining about how much incursions pay compared to sites that you solo in nullsec is like complaining that highsec level 4s pay more than lowsec level 3s. Mind you there really should be a mechanic to force incursions in nullsec systems, but that's about the only problem with them on a highsec vs nullsec level. (though it is worth noting that CCP really should undo the changes where they made 90% of nullsec useless for the sole reason of encouraging people to fight over the 10% that isn't)
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-03-18 19:25:27 UTC
Azure Moonlight wrote:
Bounties arent a problem and never were and its not at all surprising they generate the most ISK. I think noone ever said otherwise. Incursions whereas are a problem, because they are totally out of proportion. A minimal number of players generating 1/3 of all bounty income on the server?
Thats a small bunch of suddenly VERY rich people. That is hurting the economy and not primarily bounty income and what is attached to it.

What is really scarry is that ~9 Bil from Incursions, is on top of the ~33 Bil for bounties. That is an aditional ~9 Bil being pumped into the economy that is not getting taken out by very many sinks to it. That is a setup for rapid inflation.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-03-18 19:31:49 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Azure Moonlight wrote:
Bounties arent a problem and never were and its not at all surprising they generate the most ISK. I think noone ever said otherwise. Incursions whereas are a problem, because they are totally out of proportion. A minimal number of players generating 1/3 of all bounty income on the server?
Thats a small bunch of suddenly VERY rich people. That is hurting the economy and not primarily bounty income and what is attached to it.

What is really scarry is that ~9 Bil from Incursions, is on top of the ~33 Bil for bounties. That is an aditional ~9 Bil being pumped into the economy that is not getting taken out by very many sinks to it. That is a setup for rapid inflation.

You mean TRILLIONS, not billions. Three orders of magnitude difference, per month.
Farang Lo
Doomheim
#65 - 2012-03-18 19:33:03 UTC
quite stupid that 25% isk generated drop into 1% of eve population
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#66 - 2012-03-18 19:33:50 UTC
Farang Lo wrote:
quite stupid that 25% isk generated drop into 1% of eve population


There's only one solution: Occupy Incursions Cool

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#67 - 2012-03-18 19:56:10 UTC
Considering how risk-averse incursion fleets seem to be, it doesn't seem like a very hard thing to do (i've seen a 11-strong fleet with 3 logistics stand down because someone had a war dec from a 2 man corp with no online members, this caused an aggro timer to one of the logistics and the entire operation stood down for 15 minutes).

I can only wonder what declarations of war or sudden appearances by thrashers and tornados can do.

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2012-03-18 20:05:23 UTC
Bat Country shall look into this to see what we can do.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-03-18 20:23:01 UTC
Ottersmacker wrote:
Considering how risk-averse incursion fleets seem to be, it doesn't seem like a very hard thing to do (i've seen a 11-strong fleet with 3 logistics stand down because someone had a war dec from a 2 man corp with no online members, this caused an aggro timer to one of the logistics and the entire operation stood down for 15 minutes).

I can only wonder what declarations of war or sudden appearances by thrashers and tornados can do.

If you are not in an NPC corp we don't want you, is that going to be next, besides the officer fit Zelot/Guardian?

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#70 - 2012-03-19 01:04:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
You want to biiiiiitch about out of porportion faucet that makes a few into super rich at the cost of the other 99.99% look at Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe..
You mean those things that don't inject any ISK? Those things that require significant (and continuous) investments in manpower to acquire and keep running? Those things that exist exclusively in nullsec where they create wars and the losses of cubic kilometres worth of assets? Yeah, no. They're not really an issue for the economy.

Nice straw man though — fits right in with the ridiculous straw man of the OP.


Correct the moon goo faucet. Don't tell me it is not a faucet that is not lining the wallets of a very few .
You are telling me there are not considerable investments in man hours devoted to incursion running?
I often fly 6 billion ISK ships in certain fleets & am surrounded by man ships that cost the same or more... 20-80 man fleets.
It required alot of work to get these fleets running hunny.
YOU ARE TELLING ME MOON GOO IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR THE ECONOMY?!?!?! YOUR BS IS PILED SKY HIGH IN THAT STATEMENT GIRL
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#71 - 2012-03-19 01:09:06 UTC
Ottersmacker wrote:
Considering how risk-averse incursion fleets seem to be, it doesn't seem like a very hard thing to do (i've seen a 11-strong fleet with 3 logistics stand down because someone had a war dec from a 2 man corp with no online members, this caused an aggro timer to one of the logistics and the entire operation stood down for 15 minutes).

I can only wonder what declarations of war or sudden appearances by thrashers and tornados can do.



BEEN DONE BEFORE... what happens now is the war decked doesn't get reps & dies... standing order for his stupidity for not reading my fleets MOTD.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#72 - 2012-03-19 01:10:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Farang Lo wrote:
quite stupid that 25% isk generated drop into 1% of eve population

prove that statisic... Until you do I say incursion runners are 10%+ of the eve population... prove me wrong... Yep you can't becuase you are clueless about the real numbers
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#73 - 2012-03-19 01:17:47 UTC
Azure Moonlight wrote:
Bounties arent a problem and never were and its not at all surprising they generate the most ISK. I think noone ever said otherwise. Incursions whereas are a problem, because they are totally out of proportion. A minimal number of players generating 1/3 of all bounty income on the server?
Thats a small bunch of suddenly VERY rich people. That is hurting the economy and not primarily bounty income and what is attached to it.


Since when has nuevo rich ever become a problem in an economy?!?!?! Quite the opposite: Nuevo rich always invigorate economies
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-03-19 01:25:50 UTC
Null sc requires supercaps. To get isk for supers people turned to botting. A bunch of bot isk drove inflation. Now 0.0 is going to get nerfed because alliance leadership turned a blind eye to botting.
Terajima Kazumi
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-03-19 01:29:38 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
You want to biiiiiitch about out of porportion faucet that makes a few into super rich at the cost of the other 99.99% look at Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe..
You mean those things that don't inject any ISK? Those things that require significant (and continuous) investments in manpower to acquire and keep running? Those things that exist exclusively in nullsec where they create wars and the losses of cubic kilometres worth of assets? Yeah, no. They're not really an issue for the economy.

Nice straw man though — fits right in with the ridiculous straw man of the OP.


Correct the moon goo faucet. Don't tell me it is not a faucet that is not lining the wallets of a very few .
You are telling me there are not considerable investments in man hours devoted to incursion running?
I often fly 6 billion ISK ships in certain fleets & am surrounded by man ships that cost the same or more... 20-80 man fleets.
It required alot of work to get these fleets running hunny.
YOU ARE TELLING ME MOON GOO IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR THE ECONOMY?!?!?! YOUR BS IS PILED SKY HIGH IN THAT STATEMENT GIRL

Moon goo doesn't create ISK, it merely moves it.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#76 - 2012-03-19 01:37:19 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Terajima Kazumi wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
You want to biiiiiitch about out of porportion faucet that makes a few into super rich at the cost of the other 99.99% look at Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe..
You mean those things that don't inject any ISK? Those things that require significant (and continuous) investments in manpower to acquire and keep running? Those things that exist exclusively in nullsec where they create wars and the losses of cubic kilometres worth of assets? Yeah, no. They're not really an issue for the economy.

Nice straw man though — fits right in with the ridiculous straw man of the OP.


Correct the moon goo faucet. Don't tell me it is not a faucet that is not lining the wallets of a very few .
You are telling me there are not considerable investments in man hours devoted to incursion running?
I often fly 6 billion ISK ships in certain fleets & am surrounded by man ships that cost the same or more... 20-80 man fleets.
It required alot of work to get these fleets running hunny.
YOU ARE TELLING ME MOON GOO IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR THE ECONOMY?!?!?! YOUR BS IS PILED SKY HIGH IN THAT STATEMENT GIRL

Moon goo doesn't create ISK, it merely moves it.


Moon Goo is used to create items & affects those items costs. It has a VERY real affect to the economy.
Are you going to tell me next that the cost of oil does not affect the economy?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-03-19 01:49:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
The difference between null bounties and HS incursions is that null has always been there available to people whereas incursions just took everyone who did existing combat PVE in HS (and many other places) and tripled their income for no extra needed effort or skills or risk.

Obviously living in null also inherently carries with it a level of risk that running incursions in HS simply doesn't.

The fact that incursions were introduced is not really the issue.
The issue is that they are severely unbalanced compare to any other form of PVE in terms of risk vs. reward and that there were no new isk sinks introduced along with the faucet.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Terajima Kazumi
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-03-19 01:52:29 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Terajima Kazumi wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
You want to biiiiiitch about out of porportion faucet that makes a few into super rich at the cost of the other 99.99% look at Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe..
You mean those things that don't inject any ISK? Those things that require significant (and continuous) investments in manpower to acquire and keep running? Those things that exist exclusively in nullsec where they create wars and the losses of cubic kilometres worth of assets? Yeah, no. They're not really an issue for the economy.

Nice straw man though — fits right in with the ridiculous straw man of the OP.


Correct the moon goo faucet. Don't tell me it is not a faucet that is not lining the wallets of a very few .
You are telling me there are not considerable investments in man hours devoted to incursion running?
I often fly 6 billion ISK ships in certain fleets & am surrounded by man ships that cost the same or more... 20-80 man fleets.
It required alot of work to get these fleets running hunny.
YOU ARE TELLING ME MOON GOO IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR THE ECONOMY?!?!?! YOUR BS IS PILED SKY HIGH IN THAT STATEMENT GIRL

Moon goo doesn't create ISK, it merely moves it.


Moon Goo is used to create items & affects those items costs. It has a VERY real affect to the economy.
Are you going to tell me next that the cost of oil does not affect the economy?

Economic impact != currency issuance.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#79 - 2012-03-19 01:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Don't tell my that ISK faucets are only thing causing inflation... the minerals/botting problem is part of the inflation here ( funny less botts will be causing inflation ) &the monoloplies on moon goo faucets can create inflation too. But if you want to only cry about the ISK faucets bounties are the biggest faucet & they can be botted too. Incursions are not being botted.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#80 - 2012-03-19 02:04:00 UTC
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Stop explaining the truth to the trolls..
…and the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.


I miss the good trolls like Tom Gerard who at least injected humor into their like whoring and ambiguous statement making.

Incursions are done everywhere but wormhole space, and wormhole space injects more ISK than Incursions. You can cry about how dangerous WH space is but since you have no kills or deaths there, I will take anything you say about wspace with a grain of salt. And by take with a grain of salt i mean "reject it for the rubbish theorycrafting it is".

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it