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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Looking for a new player to mentor in the ways of ship combat
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#81 - 2012-03-16 23:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

I put enough cheap resist buffer on it to kite some NPCs in a level 3 mission.

Level 3 mission in a 0.4 system? Wut?

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
It was a junk fit for a one-time job


Junk fit for a one time job... now featuring T2 modules. Again, wut?

So, given your intended job (kiting a mission), and keeping in mind that this would have been better done by a frigate in the first place at a much smaller price, let's play the "good fitter" game! I made up my own fit for the job, from cheaper components that are likely even more readily available without flying "far away".

Quote:

[Stabber, lolkiter]

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon I, EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon I, EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon I, EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon I, EMP M
Assault Missile Launcher I, Mjolnir Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher I, Mjolnir Light Missile

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender I
Large Shield Extender I

Damage Control I
Power Diagnostic System I
Power Diagnostic System I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I


Hobgoblin I x1

Compared to your fit, (and assuming max skills) this one:

  • 2 mil ISK cheaper
  • Can run the MWD forever without running out of cap, compared to 2m 20s. Why? Shield extenders don't use power like invulns do. Basic fitting fact.
  • Has 4.1k EHP more buffer for kiting (17.4k vs 13.3k), and twice the passive shield regen (36.7 dps vs 17.4 dps)
  • 150 m/s faster (2600 m/s vs 2424 m/s)


The only diadvantage? Higher signature radius, but since you're kiting just staying at longer range solves that. My point? Your fit demonstrates none of your supposed of fitting competence.

Not to mention... how the hell does a Machariel catch a MWDing Stabber? The Stabber is more agile and faster.

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
If you feel differently, then you're free to play however you want. But don't call me wrong for playing how I want.


You are free to fit your ships however you want, and consider you're doing it right. That is seriously up to you. But when you take that attitude and those skills and you offer to teach newbies... that's a problem.

If you saw someone who insisted that 1+1=3, you could just laugh it off and let him believe that. But if that person wanted to teach grade school children mathematics, while claiming to be "good at math", you would want to smack him down. Correct?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#82 - 2012-03-17 13:15:17 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Recent losses just aren't any better, either. What is this stabber fit all about? ( http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15538728#lostLoadout )Let us take this as your one fit ... what was the purpose of it? Why did you stack resists instead of any local rep or buffer? Why have you wasted 66% of your low slots on cap mods? Why are there no damage mods at all? Why are you using meta 0 guns? Why are you not trying to increase your falloff? Why are you not trying to increase your agility? Why is there no ewar or warp disruption?


Excuses x 500


I can call bullshit on the very first excuse: there were better guns on sale locally. I know this because you were in ******* MOLDEN HEATH, a handful of jumps from Rens and one jump (ONE) from a major mission system that always has guns in stock.

Basically, you were mission bearing out of Gulf and had a mission in lowsec, so built something for the task. What you built was pretty terrible.

Your excuses, broken down:
-The meta 0 guns were the only cheap ones available nearby-
Just not true, see above. You should also realize the value of T2 guns when you are kiting (barrage).

-I didn't need agility because I was kiting by outrunning-
Yet you died because you couldn't warp out in time. See the problem?

-I would have liked some weapon mods but removing even one cap mod would have prevented me from running the microwarp often enough-
If you're kiting to avoid damage, then you can rig for damage application as you wont need them for tanking.

-It was a junk fit for a one-time job, but you still have failed to poke holes in it-
Consider it poked. Though I admire your stoic defense in the face of complete adversary, you may want to consider why no one agrees.

-Is it wrong to fit a junk ship hastily?-
No, but ONLY having junk fits to show for yourself is telling a story. If we accept as true (and I don't, BTW) that all your other fits are fantastic, then you STILL need to accept that you're losing ships because you can't be bothered to fit them properly. Which, given it has happened 59times, should be telling you to stop doing it.

-But don't call me wrong for playing how I want-
I haven't. What I feel is wrong, however, is coming on here and looking for new players to teach in your own brand of doing it wrong. I don't care if you lose 100 active hulltanked Nightmares a week, just don't post a thread about how you're going to teach that to new players.

-And don't call me incapable of "doing it right" when my preferred method differs from yours-
I will call you "capable" when you can demonstrate such. I have offered you THREE times to take ANY ship and fit it for ANY purpose and post the results here. You seemingly won't do this. If you are SO sure of yourself, prove us wrong.

-You people say I have offered no evidence-
You haven't - you've even specifically refused on three occasions to do so.

-yet when I explain my fits or offer someone else help on fits, you ignore what I say and just try to poke holes in it-
No, we hear what you say. You're just wrong. Sorry.

Fitting aside, you want to teach someone PVP but you couldn't escape from a mach when you already had a 40km headstart?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#83 - 2012-03-17 14:46:46 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

It worked great until the machariel came in. I thought that I was safe since he was 40km away, so I just microwarped away to watch. But he pointed me at 40km and closed in to 25km within about 10 seconds. I played with the machariel on EFT and decided it was remotely possible to do that, but that means he must have had a really expensive setup. Anyway, I learned my lesson there.

It was a junk fit for a one-time job, but you still have failed to poke holes in it. Is it wrong to fit a junk ship hastily?

And don't call me incapable of "doing it right" when my preferred method differs from yours.

You people say I have offered no evidence that I fit well or that I don't fit poorly, yet when I explain my fits or offer someone else help on fits, you ignore what I say and just try to poke holes in it, regardless of whether or not it makes sense.


Get ready for holes since you requested.

A mach came in on you and could point from that far away because you never noticed a cloaky neutral in system with boosts nor the combat probes the dude used to find you = not fit to teach ANYTHING

YES, a junk fit is useless as is a proper fit if you never learned to use d-scan. Your "preferred" methods are nothing short of "crash test dummy" and that should NOT be taught to others. At least by starting this thread you gave any new guys reading it a guide on what NOT to do.


P.S. isn't this the stabber with 2 invuls and an explosive rig you're talking about? Since you intended to "kite" have you ever heard of T2 guns shooting barrage with ambit extensions? cap recharge rigs? CDFEs?......5 pages and you still haven't looked into stacking penalties so at this point I seriously doubt you can learn. Can I have your stuff when you quit?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#84 - 2012-03-17 16:39:45 UTC
Kiting fit with no warp disruptor, seems like a pro fit to me.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-03-17 17:20:18 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Recent losses just aren't any better, either. What is this stabber fit all about? ( http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15538728#lostLoadout )Let us take this as your one fit ... what was the purpose of it? Why did you stack resists instead of any local rep or buffer? Why have you wasted 66% of your low slots on cap mods? Why are there no damage mods at all? Why are you using meta 0 guns? Why are you not trying to increase your falloff? Why are you not trying to increase your agility? Why is there no ewar or warp disruption?


Excuses x 500


I can call bullshit on the very first excuse: there were better guns on sale locally. I know this because you were in ******* MOLDEN HEATH, a handful of jumps from Rens and one jump (ONE) from a major mission system that always has guns in stock.
so I didn't want to go 1 jump. I wanted to go straight from base to mission. I'm lazy and proud of it.

Basically, you were mission bearing out of Gulf and had a mission in lowsec, so built something for the task. What you built was pretty terrible.

Your excuses, broken down:
-The meta 0 guns were the only cheap ones available nearby-
Just not true, see above. You should also realize the value of T2 guns when you are kiting (barrage).
I can't use T2 guns, and didn't plan on spending that much anyway

-I didn't need agility because I was kiting by outrunning-
Yet you died because you couldn't warp out in time. See the problem?
Actually I could have warped out in time, I even said I chose not to. Did you even read what I said? No, you went in with the sole purpose of poking holes in my statement, regardless of how much or little sense it made, just as I said you would.

-I would have liked some weapon mods but removing even one cap mod would have prevented me from running the microwarp often enough-
If you're kiting to avoid damage, then you can rig for damage application as you wont need them for tanking.
shield resist rigs are far cheaper I think, though I'm not really sure what you just said.

-It was a junk fit for a one-time job, but you still have failed to poke holes in it-
Consider it poked. Though I admire your stoic defense in the face of complete adversary, you may want to consider why no one agrees.
as I have previously stated, you all have a biased view because you don't like my killboard. There is nothing logical in this massive sheep offense. Just because there are a lot of you doesn't make you right. If millions of people insist that three point three continued times three equals ten, it doesn't make it true.

-Is it wrong to fit a junk ship hastily?-
No, but ONLY having junk fits to show for yourself is telling a story. If we accept as true (and I don't, BTW) that all your other fits are fantastic, then you STILL need to accept that you're losing ships because you can't be bothered to fit them properly. Which, given it has happened 59times, should be telling you to stop doing it.
I mostly have junk fits on my killboard for two reasons: 1.) I often fit lazily, especially when I expect to lose it, and 2.) because I don't go into PVP with my good ships much. I do a little, but I usually get out just fine. So what's on my killboard are mostly junk fits, because I almost never fly anything well fit into PVP unless I'm in a big fleet. I keep explaining this, but you guys aren't listening anyway.

-But don't call me wrong for playing how I want-
I haven't. What I feel is wrong, however, is coming on here and looking for new players to teach in your own brand of doing it wrong. I don't care if you lose 100 active hulltanked Nightmares a week, just don't post a thread about how you're going to teach that to new players.
You don't even know what I would teach about fitting. If I was losing 100 active hull tanked Nightmares per week, it doesn't mean I necessarily would recommend that strategy to others.

-And don't call me incapable of "doing it right" when my preferred method differs from yours-
I will call you "capable" when you can demonstrate such. I have offered you THREE times to take ANY ship and fit it for ANY purpose and post the results here. You seemingly won't do this. If you are SO sure of yourself, prove us wrong.
I told you, you guys aren't really going to talk logically about this, so I was too lazy to even bother. The only reason I'm writing this is because I'm at a clinic having tests done on me and I'm really bored.

-You people say I have offered no evidence-
You haven't - you've even specifically refused on three occasions to do so.
I've refused a LOT more than three times

-yet when I explain my fits or offer someone else help on fits, you ignore what I say and just try to poke holes in it-
No, we hear what you say. You're just wrong. Sorry.
PWNT

Fitting aside, you want to teach someone PVP but you couldn't escape from a mach when you already had a 40km headstart?
Fitting aside is right. My ability to fit ships or lack thereof as you people believe has no bearing whatsoever on my ability to escape a Machariel in a stabber. That's flying ships, not fitting ships. But in my defense, I already said I microwarped away immdediately and he still moved faster. According to EFT it is possible for a machariel to move at about 4.5km/s, while my stabber could only go 3km/s. And there are officer warp disruptors with up to 40km range. And finally, I'm not ashamed I didn't know it was possible for a Machariel to do that. Many people I've spoken to speak very highly of the Machariel, but still have trouble believing it can do that. Also, I don't always keep track of officer modules because I never buy them. So once again, you have nothing on me. You're just seeking arguments for the sake of argument. You've decided I'm wrong and there's nothing I can do to change your mind.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-03-17 17:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Khanh'rhh wrote:
If you're kiting to avoid damage, then you can rig for damage application as you wont need them for tanking

I just figured out what you meant by that. The problem there is that damage rigs raise the powergrid cost, meaning I would need powergrid modules instead of capacitor modules. It would have been easier to fit damage mods in the lows. But I didn't bother because I was shooting drone frigs that die in 1 volley anyway. I usually only fuss about damage when I'm having trouble breaking tank on a battleship in a level 4 mission.

Petrus Blackshell wrote:
If you saw someone who insisted that 1+1=3, you could just laugh it off and let him believe that. But if that person wanted to teach grade school children mathematics, while claiming to be "good at math", you would want to smack him down. Correct?

I'm not insisting that my bad fits on my lossboard are "correct" at all. On the contrary, I'm insisting that your assertion that me 'losing bad fits and not losing good ones makes me bad at fitting' is a flawed assertion.

I'm gonna run up that other thing you said on EFT when I get home, so I can give you a more educated response, as I don't remember why I chose hardeners over extenders at the moment.

If you must know, I was running a level 3 amarr mission in lowsec, and I got more standings for most of the missions in its 7-mission arc than most level 4 missions gave. It was worth a lot more than a stabber, as it shaved months off of my Amarr standings repair.

Homo Jesus wrote:
A mach came in on you and could point from that far away because you never noticed a cloaky neutral in system with boosts nor the combat probes the dude used to find you = not fit to teach ANYTHING

YES, a junk fit is useless as is a proper fit if you never learned to use d-scan. Your "preferred" methods are nothing short of "crash test dummy" and that should NOT be taught to others. At least by starting this thread you gave any new guys reading it a guide on what NOT to do P.S. isn't this the stabber with 2 invuls and an explosive rig you're talking about? Since you intended to "kite" have you ever heard of T2 guns shooting barrage with ambit extensions? cap recharge rigs? CDFEs?......5 pages and you still haven't looked into stacking penalties so at this point I seriously doubt you can learn. Can I have your stuff when you quit

I was in lowsec, not nullsec. There were plenty of folks in that system I didn't have any affiliation with. I expected them to come at me just like they did on the previous mission which sent me into the lowsec system nextdoor. Fail one.

And as I said above, that mission set was well worth the hassle. The guy scanning didn't show up on d-scan, which I WAS using, and it DOES have a maximum range, and if I HAD seen him I WOULDN'T have fled ANYWAY. Fail two.

I applied my "crash test dummy" method okay here, though I have a lot of better stories about the same method. It's probably my best flying skill. And I can teach it to new people if I want to. It's a valid option. When I teach, I present lots of potential options and ask the person what they want to achieve and what skills they can bring to the table, then help them choose a reasonable path. Just as I would teach to someone similar to me in flying tactics, the "crash test dummy" method works great for me and gets me what I want overall. But I'll teach someone else to pursue their best talents, regardless of a difference between theirs and mine, because THAT is what makes a teacher, not ability to DO the things they teach. Fail three.


You guys keep bringing up this thing about stacking penalties and I don't even know what you're talking about. Unless....no you guys couldn't be that bad...right? You aren't talking about the Raven I lost in a suicide gank are you? Nah, you guys are clearly too awake to make a mistake like that.

Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Kiting fit with no warp disruptor, seems like a pro fit to me.

I'm sorry, how stupid of me! I should always remember from now on to scram the rats I'm shooting at, so they can't get away!

Sorry for any formatting errors. The new autosave draft feature apparently removes all of the characters at the end of every line.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#87 - 2012-03-17 19:04:46 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'm not insisting that my bad fits on my lossboard are "correct" at all. On the contrary, I'm insisting that your assertion that me 'losing bad fits and not losing good ones makes me bad at fitting' is a flawed assertion.


What I don't think you realize is that if you fly enough in any situations that involve risk or skill, losses are inevitable. Thus, if you actually have the PvP experience to teach newbies, your lossboard should show at least some decently fit ships. It does not. That means that

a) You don't have the PvP experience to teach newbies, or
b) You suck at fitting and shouldn't be teaching newbies or
c) All of the above

I am going off the evidence I have, and that evidence only contains suboptimal or downright crappy fits. We have invited you to provide better and you have not delivered, so my opinion is unchanged.

For future note, even with a drag racing fit (which you won't see in PvP), a full Snake implant set, a Machariel only goes 2600 m/s non-overheated. Battleships also warp at 3 AU/s, so you had something like a 10-20 second window in which you would have been able to catch the Machariel on d-scan. Do it better.

FWIW, though, small amount of respect earned for following a mission arc into lowsec.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#88 - 2012-03-17 21:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
See, the fact that you think the Mach needed an officer warp disruptor to point you at 40km is a clear example of you having no idea what you are talking about. In case you're wondering, it's 43+km on a T2 disruptor. Or, more accurately, any ship with a T2 point can point you at 43+km in the right scenario. A tackle interceptor 53+km and an Arazu 86+km. (I only have the range written down for the faction points and mathed it back to T2, but it's roughly that).

You haven't explained why you got caught in a mission either. Surely you know Dscan can keep you 99% safe from a BS warping to you? How do you teach BASIC things like Dscan awareness, if you die in that scenario yourself?

I don't see why you've been playing over a year and don't have T2 guns trained either. If you have them trained in another race, use that.

Your repeat excuse for EVERYTHING is basically "I am lazy and couldn't be bothered but oh yes, I did know that now you've mentioned it to me"

So even if that is true, you're still too lazy to fly one ******* jump to make a fit VIABLE so what the hell use are you as a teacher?

Quote:
If millions of people insist that three point three continued times three equals ten, it doesn't make it true

Strawman argument. Now go find millions of people who think that.

EDIT:

I would like to point out this fantastic bit of back peddaling

Quote:
Should I waste an extra half hour and several million isk shopping far away

Me: dude, it was NEXT DOOR
Quote:
so I didn't want to go 1 jump


So, which is it? Half an hour away, or 1 jump? You're just flinging **** around and shouting down people drawing legit criticism against your fits with a story that keeps changing to fit the facts. A story for every single loss. You just happened to have been in one of your "non serious" ships every time one of your little segways into being an idiot happened, right? Like "Oh I thought I would undock and listen to the energy transfer" - no chance you just had no idea of docking mechanics / session change timers and just mashed dock in a panic and died, is there? Hint: this is what happened.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#89 - 2012-03-18 00:03:14 UTC
This thread should now be known as:

Looking for a new player to mentor in the ways of the foolish.










I think Spaceball One had a smarter captain.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#90 - 2012-03-18 02:18:29 UTC
Homo Jesus wrote:
This thread should now be known as:

Looking for a new player to mentor in the ways of the foolish.

I think Spaceball One had a smarter captain.


I think y'all are going about this the wrong way.....

Here's a piece of feel-good St. Patty's Day Whiskey Motivated Advice...

Why do you care if he shitfits his ships???

It's the peeps that try and fail that really learn something... having some pissant person like me tell you the absolute best way to fit your ship doesn't really help understand why it's the best way to fit your ship. Typically people blindly follow your advice and don't learn anything, or they nitpick your advice until it bitchslaps in the eye. Pretty much only experience drills it into your head.... what's that adage: wisdom comes from shtifits and bad experiences, or something like that...

So Yeah... He lost his mach to a stabber... or something like that.. It got him to examine how the mach accomplished that, and he learned something.... He might not have it all down right (like not knowing his gang link bonuses yet), but he'll get there sooner than later.

My point is... A Noob has soooo much **** to learn in EvE, that anyone willing to donate their time to help them through the game is really only going to improve their experience. Additionally, he's encouraging noobs to PvP, which is nothing but good IMO... Even if he provides mediocre advice, that just leaves room for improvement later on. Really, I wouldn't know **** about **** in this game if I didn't start off shitfitting my ships...

Look at some of my early losses:

They're so god damn bad my d$ck shrivels every time I look at em... Truth be told though, it's the lessens I learned from my failures that really gave me the knowledge I have now.... That's why I just killed a Wolf with my drunken battle Helios... (understand how I did that Reaver, and you'll improve as a pilot).

In conclusion of this incoherent drunken rant:
Give'em a break... let him teach noobs... even if he is a noob; as it will only help them, and him...

So, unless you have proof that his incompetence will hurt noobs, STFU... Just because he's has shitfits on his killboard doesn't mean he wont' help a noob into pvp and it doesn't mean he wont help a noob in the long run. Besides, in my experience, handing people expert knowledge on a silver platter doesnt' accomplish nearly as much as letting people fall down, break a leg, and then seek that knowledge after the fact!!!
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-03-18 03:23:37 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'm not insisting that my bad fits on my lossboard are "correct" at all. On the contrary, I'm insisting that your assertion that me 'losing bad fits and not losing good ones makes me bad at fitting' is a flawed assertion.


What I don't think you realize is that if you fly enough in any situations that involve risk or skill, losses are inevitable. Thus, if you actually have the PvP experience to teach newbies, your lossboard should show at least some decently fit ships. It does not. That means that

a) You don't have the PvP experience to teach newbies, or
b) You suck at fitting and shouldn't be teaching newbies or
c) All of the above

I am going off the evidence I have, and that evidence only contains suboptimal or downright crappy fits. We have invited you to provide better and you have not delivered, so my opinion is unchanged.

For future note, even with a drag racing fit (which you won't see in PvP), a full Snake implant set, a Machariel only goes 2600 m/s non-overheated. Battleships also warp at 3 AU/s, so you had something like a 10-20 second window in which you would have been able to catch the Machariel on d-scan. Do it better.

FWIW, though, small amount of respect earned for following a mission arc into lowsec.


I never said I have a good amount of PVP experience, in fact I have said plenty of times that I don't. But I have talked to people who do have PVP experience and I have done some PVP, and thus I know enough to get someone started. I couldn't hope to mentor an experienced pilot in the ways of PVP (except perhaps ship fitting) but I can teach a newbie a ton of great things that will save them loads of trouble with the steep learning curve. I know the mechanics of PVP, even if I am terrible at execution. I also know how to teach well. Thus, I would make a great instructor for newbies.

As for the Machariel, overheated and with fleet boosters from a fully skilled fleet command ship, and with a full snake set of implants, it can indeed go approximately 4500 m/s. Of course, nobody would expect to see that in some random Machariel you encounter, so you can understand why I didn't feel threatened by the Machariel. But once you have removed all other possibilities, the only option that remains, however unlikely, must be true. The only way he went that fast was he had fleet boosts from a Claymore, a snake set, and he was overheating his MWD. And lastly, I'm really tired of reiterating that I DID see the Machariel coming and didn't feel threatened. As Khanh'rhh said, d-scan will keep you 99% safe from a battleship. Well this was in the 1%. Get over it. In EVE, the 1% happens at least 10% of the time, you all should know that.

And why have I earned respect for doing missions in lowsec? I don't see it as an accomplishment. I'm not afraid of lowsec but I'm smart enough to avoid it when I'm not prepared to reap any benefits of being there.

Khanh'rhh wrote:
So, which is it? Half an hour away, or 1 jump?

Actually I play EVE excruciatingly slowly. If you sat watching me, you would understand that 1 jump and half an hour are actually one and the same most of the time.

I'm not changing my story at all, you guys are either reading too much into what I say or just not reading it carefully.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-03-18 03:31:26 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
See, the fact that you think the Mach needed an officer warp disruptor to point you at 40km is a clear example of you having no idea what you are talking about. In case you're wondering, it's 43+km on a T2 disruptor. Or, more accurately, any ship with a T2 point can point you at 43+km in the right scenario. A tackle interceptor 53+km and an Arazu 86+km. (I only have the range written down for the faction points and mathed it back to T2, but it's roughly that).


It's actually 24km on a T2 disruptor, 28.8km overheated. I didn't check the faction ones at the time, but I do know off the top of my head that a Dark Blood warp disruptor has a range of 28km, or 33.6km overheated. There might be a faction one that can reach out to 40km, but more likely it was an officer one. Machariels do not have a bonus to warp disruptor range. If there is some other way to increase this range that I don't know about, then I apologize for that misunderstanding. It doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about overall, it means there's something I don't know about warp disruptor range. And what do interceptors have to do with this? We're talking about a Machariel, not an interceptor. If I wanted to be like you, I'd claim that what you said here is a clear example that you don't know what you're talking about because Machariel =/= interceptor.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#93 - 2012-03-18 04:32:00 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
See, the fact that you think the Mach needed an officer warp disruptor to point you at 40km is a clear example of you having no idea what you are talking about. In case you're wondering, it's 43+km on a T2 disruptor. Or, more accurately, any ship with a T2 point can point you at 43+km in the right scenario. A tackle interceptor 53+km and an Arazu 86+km. (I only have the range written down for the faction points and mathed it back to T2, but it's roughly that).


It's actually 24km on a T2 disruptor, 28.8km overheated. I didn't check the faction ones at the time, but I do know off the top of my head that a Dark Blood warp disruptor has a range of 28km, or 33.6km overheated. There might be a faction one that can reach out to 40km, but more likely it was an officer one. Machariels do not have a bonus to warp disruptor range. If there is some other way to increase this range that I don't know about, then I apologize for that misunderstanding. It doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about overall, it means there's something I don't know about warp disruptor range. And what do interceptors have to do with this? We're talking about a Machariel, not an interceptor. If I wanted to be like you, I'd claim that what you said here is a clear example that you don't know what you're talking about because Machariel =/= interceptor.


Listen up, young padawon, learn the ways of the Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Manuevers. Important, it is!

A lvl 5 CS with this ganglink will give a 26% boost to scrams, webs, and disruptor range...
28.8 * 1.26 = 36 ish....

Add to this, Faction Pts have a base 30 km range, NOT overheated (see Domination and Republic Fleet)....
Add to this, T2 version of the ganglinks are 25% stronger....
Add to this, Mindlink Implants will boost the effect even more....
Add to this, T3 Ganglink bonuses boost the effect more than CS's....

And you can easily get a pt to reach 40 km's....

Other relevant gang link: Skirmish Warfare - Rapid Deployment... Fast, you will be!!!!

And drunk, I am!!!!



Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#94 - 2012-03-18 11:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
See, the fact that you think the Mach needed an officer warp disruptor to point you at 40km is a clear example of you having no idea what you are talking about. In case you're wondering, it's 43+km on a T2 disruptor. Or, more accurately, any ship with a T2 point can point you at 43+km in the right scenario. A tackle interceptor 53+km and an Arazu 86+km. (I only have the range written down for the faction points and mathed it back to T2, but it's roughly that).


It's actually 24km on a T2 disruptor, 28.8km overheated. I didn't check the faction ones at the time, but I do know off the top of my head that a Dark Blood warp disruptor has a range of 28km, or 33.6km overheated. There might be a faction one that can reach out to 40km, but more likely it was an officer one. Machariels do not have a bonus to warp disruptor range. If there is some other way to increase this range that I don't know about, then I apologize for that misunderstanding. It doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about overall, it means there's something I don't know about warp disruptor range. And what do interceptors have to do with this? We're talking about a Machariel, not an interceptor. If I wanted to be like you, I'd claim that what you said here is a clear example that you don't know what you're talking about because Machariel =/= interceptor.


My point is this.

You didn't "feel threatened" by a mach that was 40km away from you.

So, what would you tell a new player if there was a Mach 40km away from him, or an Arazu 80km away? That he can be pointed, or not? (if an Arazu is 120km away you better start running)

You didn't think you were in any danger, and thus the only advice you can give is that there wasn't any danger. Boom - new player loses **** based on your teachings.

Not knowing the possible ranges of warp disruptors is pretty bad in respect to PVP, no?

And you are still making huge claims to fame regarding your fitting skills yet can still produce not a single positive fit, and there are nearly 60 bad examples we CAN see.

At this point I'm about to start following you around and ship scanning you and posting the results.

Also, the "I'm not changing my story, it takes me half an hour to make one jump" story is hilarious, because whether it is true or false, it's equally bad.

Also also, when I said "Dscan keeps you safe 99% of the time" I was referring to the fact you can align and warp out before he lands. Because unless you have some magical way of knowing exactly where he lands (true in gated missions at least) you need to be bailing before he does. Once someone is on grid with you, and they chose the engagement, your survival rate is closer to 5%.

Again, super SUPER basic stuff, here. This is literally PVP 101 - when to run away, and you're getting it terribly wrong.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-03-18 22:42:55 UTC
Am I the only one who is actually amazed how someone who calls him a good ship fitter (or even the best in his former corp) doesn't know jack **** about Stacking penalty and tells here he never heard of it.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-03-19 19:50:58 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
See, the fact that you think the Mach needed an officer warp disruptor to point you at 40km is a clear example of you having no idea what you are talking about. In case you're wondering, it's 43+km on a T2 disruptor. Or, more accurately, any ship with a T2 point can point you at 43+km in the right scenario. A tackle interceptor 53+km and an Arazu 86+km. (I only have the range written down for the faction points and mathed it back to T2, but it's roughly that).


It's actually 24km on a T2 disruptor, 28.8km overheated. I didn't check the faction ones at the time, but I do know off the top of my head that a Dark Blood warp disruptor has a range of 28km, or 33.6km overheated. There might be a faction one that can reach out to 40km, but more likely it was an officer one. Machariels do not have a bonus to warp disruptor range. If there is some other way to increase this range that I don't know about, then I apologize for that misunderstanding. It doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about overall, it means there's something I don't know about warp disruptor range. And what do interceptors have to do with this? We're talking about a Machariel, not an interceptor. If I wanted to be like you, I'd claim that what you said here is a clear example that you don't know what you're talking about because Machariel =/= interceptor.


My point is this.

You didn't "feel threatened" by a mach that was 40km away from you.

So, what would you tell a new player if there was a Mach 40km away from him, or an Arazu 80km away? That he can be pointed, or not? (if an Arazu is 120km away you better start running)

You didn't think you were in any danger, and thus the only advice you can give is that there wasn't any danger. Boom - new player loses **** based on your teachings.

Not knowing the possible ranges of warp disruptors is pretty bad in respect to PVP, no?

And you are still making huge claims to fame regarding your fitting skills yet can still produce not a single positive fit, and there are nearly 60 bad examples we CAN see.

At this point I'm about to start following you around and ship scanning you and posting the results.

Also, the "I'm not changing my story, it takes me half an hour to make one jump" story is hilarious, because whether it is true or false, it's equally bad.

Also also, when I said "Dscan keeps you safe 99% of the time" I was referring to the fact you can align and warp out before he lands. Because unless you have some magical way of knowing exactly where he lands (true in gated missions at least) you need to be bailing before he does. Once someone is on grid with you, and they chose the engagement, your survival rate is closer to 5%.

Again, super SUPER basic stuff, here. This is literally PVP 101 - when to run away, and you're getting it terribly wrong.


This is why I choose not to comment on most of this stuff.

The mis-quoting and taking out of context runs strong in this one.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-03-19 19:52:13 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Am I the only one who is actually amazed how someone who calls him a good ship fitter (or even the best in his former corp) doesn't know jack **** about Stacking penalty and tells here he never heard of it.


Your evidence, please? Quote in which I said this, and lossfit which demonstrated lack of knowledge of stacking penalty?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#98 - 2012-03-19 20:57:40 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Am I the only one who is actually amazed how someone who calls him a good ship fitter (or even the best in his former corp) doesn't know jack **** about Stacking penalty and tells here he never heard of it.


Your evidence, please? Quote in which I said this, and lossfit which demonstrated lack of knowledge of stacking penalty?


Here:

ReaverGlitterstim wrote:
I don't know what you're talking about as far as using more than 3 modules with stacking penalty, but you're probably picking at a gank ship or something else where there's clearly no purpose for anything but more offense upgrade.


In regards to this:

Gank raven

It's stupid because, assuming this is a suicide gank raven, you want a point / scram or even just webs in the mids. 4 TPs is silly due to the stacking penalty. Oh, wait, you were in Tekaima, which in it's location a few jumps from Market hubs is HOURS away from refitting.

If you knew the stacking penalty properly (like, for instance, you WERE a good ship fitter) you would know it's worth having the first, and arguably the second, ballistic control as a T2 mod.

I mean there's **** lots of problems elsewhere, too, like you telling someone a crucifier as a tackle ship is a bad idea. It's not. You complain about autocannons on an Amarr ship - which is actually a GOOD idea in some cases.
You also critisize Canibal's active tanked battle bessies, which are awesome. You think a Navy mega is "too expencive for PVP" yet one of the most frequently flown battleships in PVP is the Macharial, which is 3 times the price.
You also gave bad fitting advice IN THIS ACTUAL MOTHERFUCKING THREAD yet still go on about how you're a good fitter. Stuff like this:
Quote:
Keno's punisher fit should drop the armor repair and get a damage control unless it is a mission fit, because in almost all situations, buffer tank trumps active repair on frigates
which is just ******* laughable and suggests you have no idea on how to mitigate damage till its at a level your active tank can handle.

So in summary:
- You don't know typical ships fielded
- You don't know their capabilities
- You can't recognise the purpose of a fit when it is shown to you
- You are ignorant of PVP tactics
- You have already given bad fitting advice here
- You can counter none of the above with any evidence
- You have flatly refused to enter any evidence despite me offering a very low ceiling to do it (ANY fit - ANY purpose)
- When issues are pointed out to you the first excuse that comes to mind is what you go with

I know when you were 6 years old getting "the last word" was winning the argument for you, but you've grown up now.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-03-19 23:22:53 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
You guys keep bringing up this thing about stacking penalties and I don't even know what you're talking about. Unless....no you guys couldn't be that bad...right? You aren't talking about the Raven I lost in a suicide gank are you? Nah, you guys are clearly too awake to make a mistake like that.


Post number 86 you clearly say you don't know what stacking penalties are.

Proven you can't by far be a good ship fitter

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2012-03-21 07:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Khanh'rhh wrote:


Here:

ReaverGlitterstim wrote:
I don't know what you're talking about as far as using more than 3 modules with stacking penalty, but you're probably picking at a gank ship or something else where there's clearly no purpose for anything but more offense upgrade.


In regards to this:

Gank raven

It's stupid because, assuming this is a suicide gank raven, you want a point / scram or even just webs in the mids. 4 TPs is silly due to the stacking penalty. Oh, wait, you were in Tekaima, which in it's location a few jumps from Market hubs is HOURS away from refitting.

If you knew the stacking penalty properly (like, for instance, you WERE a good ship fitter) you would know it's worth having the first, and arguably the second, ballistic control as a T2 mod.

I mean there's **** lots of problems elsewhere, too, like you telling someone a crucifier as a tackle ship is a bad idea. It's not. You complain about autocannons on an Amarr ship - which is actually a GOOD idea in some cases.
You also critisize Canibal's active tanked battle bessies, which are awesome. You think a Navy mega is "too expencive for PVP" yet one of the most frequently flown battleships in PVP is the Macharial, which is 3 times the price.
You also gave bad fitting advice IN THIS ACTUAL MOTHERFUCKING THREAD yet still go on about how you're a good fitter. Stuff like this:
Quote:
Keno's punisher fit should drop the armor repair and get a damage control unless it is a mission fit, because in almost all situations, buffer tank trumps active repair on frigates
which is just ******* laughable and suggests you have no idea on how to mitigate damage till its at a level your active tank can handle.

So in summary:
- You don't know typical ships fielded
- You don't know their capabilities
- You can't recognise the purpose of a fit when it is shown to you
- You are ignorant of PVP tactics
- You have already given bad fitting advice here
- You can counter none of the above with any evidence
- You have flatly refused to enter any evidence despite me offering a very low ceiling to do it (ANY fit - ANY purpose)
- When issues are pointed out to you the first excuse that comes to mind is what you go with

I know when you were 6 years old getting "the last word" was winning the argument for you, but you've grown up now.


Didn't need a scram, it was a bot who wasn't trying to warp. I'd already test-fired at him to gauge CONCORD response time, so I knew he would begin warping after I fired, and that he would enter warp after CONCORD came. So there really was no point in putting on anything other than TPs and weapon upgrades. And I wasn't able to fit tech 2 upgrades at the time.
In summary:
- I can't read minds like the rest of you seem to think you can, so I admit I don't know what a fit was designed for until I'm told. I reserve my judgements until such time.
- I have not given bad fitting advice here. You say my advice is bad yet your only reasoning is that I have no idea how to do such and such which you don't even explain how to do.
- I told you guys that if I bothered to say anything in my defense, you would ignore it. And so I did, and yeah I was right. Here you are still saying I'm not saying anything in my defense.
- The rest of those points had nothing to do with fitting and were about pvp which I keep telling you guys I suck at. But even still, I could argue a lot of your points in those regards. Like the Navy Mega, Machariel is used in PVP because it's a good PVP ship. Navy Mega is better oriented toward PVE as far as I've been told, and its attributes would seem to concur. Of course, plenty of PVE ships are used just fine in PVP, but generally when they're cheap. So yes, Navy Mega IS too expensive to fly in PVP unless you know you're up against an idiot, and you can never know that for certain.

J'Poll wrote:
Post number 86 you clearly say you don't know what stacking penalties are.

Proven you can't by far be a good ship fitter


Failure to comprehend the language you speak. And you say I'm bad? I knew you guys were fussing over the Raven the first time one of you piped up about stacking penalties. It was so utterly ridiculous an assertion (given you clearly couldn't be bothered to see it was a suicide gank fit) that I decided to ignore it and see if you'd shut up about it. But no, you guys will actually go for the more ridiculous assertions and repeat them over and over again as if saying something enough times makes it true.

Anyway, I'm tired of this post. I want to thank you all for keeping it going. I've helped several new players find their way in that time. But I'm going to cease the posting here, so fly safe everyone! o7

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."