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Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet in the game???
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#41 - 2012-03-18 05:43:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Three vanguards per incursion. 6 sites per system. 11 per fleet. when there are more than 198 (- local residents) in Incursion local everybody is not getting paid. Unless there are a couple assault fleets and the occasional HG. Still <600 pilots making that bank at any given time. And with 6 fleets you WILL contest as the 6 sites don' t just pop up instantly.

You can ALWAYS make 50 mil an hour in raw ISK once you have an Incursion capable shiny, and use it to run missions instead.

You can SOMETIMES make 100 mil an hour running Incursions. Not all of the dreaded 66% can make all of that money all of the time, no matter how hard you try to hype it.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-03-18 05:51:08 UTC
I've never seen an incursion channel break 200 people, even with drive throughs that are forced to be in the channel untill they log out.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#43 - 2012-03-18 05:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Sisohiv wrote:
I've never seen an incursion channel break 200 people, even with drive throughs that are forced to be in the channel untill they log out.


Have seen 5 and 600 multiple times in the past week.

That's when its time to do something else.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-03-18 06:55:28 UTC
Mai Khumm wrote:
"There‘s certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions.  Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively.  That‘s quite a bit of money entering the economy.  However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are.  Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK."

That's an extra 10 trillion ISK that was not in the economy previously on a monthly basis. The 10 trillion ISK seems to be approximately 20% of the ISK Faucet economy ... so yeah, Incursions are having an effect.

The bounty system was here before Incursions.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-03-18 07:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
"There‘s certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions.  Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively.  That‘s quite a bit of money entering the economy.  However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are.  Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK."

That's an extra 10 trillion ISK that was not in the economy previously on a monthly basis. The 10 trillion ISK seems to be approximately 20% of the ISK Faucet economy ... so yeah, Incursions are having an effect.

The bounty system was here before Incursions.

confirming that incursion runners didn't do any PvE during the 7.5 years before incursions were released.

the "extra" amount will be much lower than 10 trillion/month.


the beauty of incursions is that the number of people profiting from them is basically hard-capped at a low level.

but of course the csm doesn't understand this and wants to turn them into an unlimited isk faucet by increasing the number of concurrent incursions and reducing the time until they respawn in the interest of "fairness" (see meeting minutes)...

if you consider the impact of PvE imbalances from a macro POV imbalanced lvl4 missions would hit the game hardest (as they are truly unlimited), anomalies (limited number of systems in sov space with good truesec, high number of sites per system - not nearly saturated atm) and belts (available in an almost unlimited number of systems but only 1-3 simultaneous ratters per system possible) would come second and incursions last (very low number of pilots that can profit from them).

through the respawning system CCP has a great mechanic they could use to fine-tune isk injection through incursions (just delay respawns by a few hours if necessary) which makes incursions basically riskless to the in-game economy.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#46 - 2012-03-18 14:31:28 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=926833#post926833 :

CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cearain wrote:
They are the major change that happened right before the inflation. Bounties didn't change. Level 4s didn't change. Insurance didn't change except for the nerf in dominion.

Incursions are killing the traditional lp stores which used to be an isk sink.

Incursions are seeding allot of isk directly into the game.

Both of these would tend to cause inflation.


No, that's incorrect. The massive jumps we see in terms of isk almost always come when we make adjustments to anomalies. The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that.


So, nerf the anomalies I say. There, problem fixed.

Mind you, I think there are issues with Incursions, the payout does not scale linearly as you go from easy sites to difficult, that needs to be adjusted. Other than that incursions are just fine.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-03-18 17:05:37 UTC
The thing is, if you just nerf anomalies, the problem doesn't go away. We will see another exodus from nullsec, just like the last time CCP nurfed the nullbears income. They will just go to highsec and grind standings to run L4's or clog Incursions. I don't want to see that, because I invent and sell guns. Twisted An empty nullsec means nobody is fighting, nobody fighting means nobody is blowing up other people, and nobody blowing up means I don't get to sell guns to people that need them to fit ships to go blow somebody else up.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#48 - 2012-03-18 17:24:32 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
I've never seen an incursion channel break 200 people, even with drive throughs that are forced to be in the channel untill they log out.


Go to Solitude when a High SEC Incursion spawns there... I rarley see more then 100 & often see much less
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#49 - 2012-03-18 17:28:00 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
"There‘s certainly a lot of money coming from Incursions.  Incursion rewards in December amounted to 9.6 trillion ISK, which is an all time high, while the rewards in January and February were 9.0 and 8.7 trillion ISK respectively.  That‘s quite a bit of money entering the economy.  However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are.  Bounty prizes paid out in February totalled 33 trillion ISK."

That's an extra 10 trillion ISK that was not in the economy previously on a monthly basis. The 10 trillion ISK seems to be approximately 20% of the ISK Faucet economy ... so yeah, Incursions are having an effect.

The bounty system was here before Incursions.

confirming that incursion runners didn't do any PvE during the 7.5 years before incursions were released.

.


Confirming I never did PvE before Incursions too... as a noob at day 1I started in NULL trying to fight blobs of titans with my rookie ship Roll
REMOVE ALL TROLLS FROM FORUMS
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#50 - 2012-03-18 17:29:33 UTC
Always good to meet someone who started the game properly.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#51 - 2012-03-18 17:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Cipher Jones wrote:
Three vanguards per incursion. 6 sites per system. 11 per fleet. when there are more than 198 (- local residents) in Incursion local everybody is not getting paid. Unless there are a couple assault fleets and the occasional HG. Still <600 pilots making that bank at any given time. And with 6 fleets you WILL contest as the 6 sites don' t just pop up instantly.

You can ALWAYS make 50 mil an hour in raw ISK once you have an Incursion capable shiny, and use it to run missions instead.

You can SOMETIMES make 100 mil an hour running Incursions. Not all of the dreaded 66% can make all of that money all of the time, no matter how hard you try to hype it.


Stop explaining the truth to the trolls.. according to them Incursions have no risk ( 0% risk == perfect security Roll ) & ships never die in Vanguards either. When you explain that to them they start making up new definitions of risk so they can justify thier BS whine threads
REMOVE ALL TROLLS FROM FORUMS
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Azriel Geist
Pure Victory
#52 - 2012-03-18 17:31:57 UTC
I make 500m isk an hour playing Eve Poker... should CCP nerf that? Roll
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-03-18 17:48:14 UTC
Azriel Geist wrote:
I make 500m isk an hour playing Eve Poker... should CCP nerf that? Roll
Your EVE Poker winnings aren't coming out of the magical ISK faucet.

Poker is zero sum. You win 500M ISK, someone (or some people) lost 500M ISK.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#54 - 2012-03-18 18:09:08 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Terazul wrote:
Overall isk injection is irrelevant.

What is relevant is isk injection PER CAPITA.

I am under the distinct impression that those figures would not be anywhere nearly as benign.

Also, what ^ said about population. We know for a fact that not even close to 25% of players are running Incursions, so it follows that the proportion of isk injected into the economy through incursion players is disproportionate to most other activities in the game.


Does your country have some internet law that disallows you from running incursions?
Does your corp or alliance disallow you from running incursions?

I personally have not run them for weeks now, since I can't commit the hours required to help a fleet. (Yeah, you can't jump in and out of Incursions like you can run missions or rat in belts.), but I defend the Incursion runners right to do what they do.

I laugh at all the people who whine about Incursions.
The "meanies won't let me play with them when I show up in a T1 fitted BC".
You don't have the skills or ISK to fit a proper Incursion ship? Welcome to Eve.

I don't have the skills or ISK to fly a super-cap. I should complain to CCP so no one can fly one if I can't.
I don't have the skills, time, or mindset to fly with badass corps like PL, who demand specific ship fits and skills. I should petition CCP to ban PL because of that.
I don't have the skills to fly a Hulk. I should petition CCP to dramatically lower the asteroid and ice belt contents.
I don't have the skills to fly a Marauder. I should petition CCP to wipe out L4 missions.


Oh, and while we are on the topic of "incursions are bad for the Eve economy", guess we should wipe out all wormhole activity. I mean, prior to Apochrypha, the ISK faucet known as L6 wormhole combat sites did not exist. Those guys pull in countless billions in a day. It is entirely irrelevant that they have invested countless ISK and skills into their ships, let alone the huge time investment in putting together a fleet or pilots who trust each other and fly the proper fleet complement.

Heck, while we are on the subject, we should wipe out ALL NPC bounties and mission loot/salvage. I mean, the NPC bounties alone are 81% of all PVE in the game. Think how quickly we could get the economy under control if we wiped out all NPC bounties, and the only way to generate ISK was from er.....well, OK, there would be no way to generate ISK in the game, but I have a moral objection to all those NPC bounty runners who are more efficient than me and make more than me. I should whine about that too.

Please CCP, any one who makes more ISK/hour than I do, please ban all their accounts. That would be the fairest thing and best for the game.


Awful post
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#55 - 2012-03-18 18:15:08 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Stop explaining the truth to the trolls..
…and the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-03-18 18:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Falin Whalen
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Stop explaining the truth to the trolls..
…and the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.

Hey, don't come in here with your logic and well reasoned arguments, this is the EvE-O forums.

EDIT: Besides I like to watch the tinfoil hatters and sperge lords fling poo at each other.Twisted

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#57 - 2012-03-18 18:44:15 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Stop explaining the truth to the trolls..
…and the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.


You want to biiiiiitch about out of porportion faucet that makes a few into super rich at the cost of the other 99.99% look at Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe... that dwarfs Incursions by a long shot. Go fling your poo I mean goo at that feature working as intended
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-03-18 18:49:08 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Tippia wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Stop explaining the truth to the trolls..
…and the truth of the matter is that incursions make for a massive ISK faucet that is completely out of proportion to how many are doing it and where they're done.


You want to ***** about out of porportion facets ***** about the Mineral/Catalyst faucet known as Tech Moons babe... that dwarfs Incursions by a long shot. Go fling your poo I mean goo at that feature working as intended

The Mittani keeps telling them to nerf tech, but does CCP listen, NOOOO, we've got to nerf titans instead.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#59 - 2012-03-18 18:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Azriel Geist wrote:
I make 500m isk an hour playing Eve Poker... should CCP nerf that? Roll
Your EVE Poker winnings aren't coming out of the magical ISK faucet.

Poker is zero sum. You win 500M ISK, someone (or some people) lost 500M ISK.


they are comming from the ISK faucet though too many incursion runners gamble during my Vanguard blitz fleets its a real problem I say nerf it gambling causes Incrursioner proverty above all else Roll also there is too much porn posts in incursion fleets nerf website posts too... nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf nerf nef nerf
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
#60 - 2012-03-18 18:56:48 UTC
Bounties arent a problem and never were and its not at all surprising they generate the most ISK. I think noone ever said otherwise. Incursions whereas are a problem, because they are totally out of proportion. A minimal number of players generating 1/3 of all bounty income on the server?
Thats a small bunch of suddenly VERY rich people. That is hurting the economy and not primarily bounty income and what is attached to it.

Yay 10 years! :D