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At a crossroads/confused about cap ship mfg
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Vince Snetterton
#1 - 2012-03-17 16:04:52 UTC
OK, this is a bit of a ramble all over the place, but things don't seem to add up

One of my chars has been showering a number of cap ship BPO's and a complete set of the cap component BPO's with ME and PE love for some months now

All my cap component BPO's are at minimum ME 100, PE 50
I am currently selling the cap component BPC's, which makes a nice passive income, with little hassle

But I keep looking at the selling prices of the cap ships, and comparing them to the expected mfg costs on my spreadsheet, and am wondering what the heck I am doing

Is there some kind of massive war going on that is driving the costs of capitals way, way up?
Even accounting for the massive spike in mineral costs, there appears to be a healthy margin in some of the ships.

I am wondering if my spreadsheet is fubar'ed because the numbers look too good in some cases

Case in point
Using current Jita mineral sell prices, my cap component BPO's, and a ME 3 Moros BPO, I estimate costs at 1.811 Billion
Current low sell in The Forge is 2.699 B, current buy is 2.002 B
Current low contract sell in empire is 2.29 B

Can my costing numbers be right, or am I totally messed up
Could a cap manufacturer take pity on me and tell me if my expected Moros mfg costs of 1.811 billion are inline with what they are experiencing
I have spot-checked my spreadsheet, but really don't want to completely double-check every cell.
If the Moros numbers are right, then the others should be solid as well.
Momoyo
Rivinshield Trading Inc.
#2 - 2012-03-17 16:44:01 UTC
Im prety sure your figures are right. reason for such low margins in jta in the competition. Capitals have less competition plus theres the risk of people losing the ships/materials so that brings the price up. Also big alliances build their own capitals so your customers will either be lowsec dwellers or high sec people. Both will expect to pay more.
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
#3 - 2012-03-18 01:32:56 UTC
The profit may seem high, but if you take build time into account, you'll see that the Profit/Slot/Time is not as impressive as it seems at first glance. I'm not at all saying you shouldn't build capitals. It's probably pretty maintenance-free, but while there may not be many items with higher profit margins, there are certiainly a lot with a higher profit/slot/timeincome.
Vince Snetterton
#4 - 2012-03-18 03:26:13 UTC
Bluestream3 wrote:
The profit may seem high, but if you take build time into account, you'll see that the Profit/Slot/Time is not as impressive as it seems at first glance. I'm not at all saying you shouldn't build capitals. It's probably pretty maintenance-free, but while there may not be many items with higher profit margins, there are certiainly a lot with a higher profit/slot/timeincome.


I guess that is the story of my mfg life.

I have heard of these mythical items that make large ISK/ slot/ hour, and I have researched dozens, if not hundreds.
But I have found none. I think of myself as a spreadsheet king when it comes to figuring out mfg costs and logistics, but flat out awful at finding highly profitable items.

I have always worked with a benchmark of 200K ISK/slot / hour as a benchmark.
Assuming you can keep your mfg slots 80% occupied, and 10 mfg slots on a char, that gives:

.8 * 10 * 24 * 30 * 200K = a little over a billion/month profit per 10 slot mfg char.
1 billion/ month/ char apparently won't win any awards in the Eve mfg world, but it keeps the lights on and pays for the account.

As for the cap production, here is snap shot using current costs and sell prices for a Moros, using PE 50 cap component BPO's, and assuming I build all my own, and using an ME 3 PE 0 Moros BPO:

Moros at ME 3 = 253 cap components, each taking 2.17 hours to build = 549 mfg slot hours.
Moros at PE 0, built at low sec NPC station = 284 hours.

Total mfg slot hours = 833.
Assume my cost of 1.811 B is correct.
Also assume I can sell dread for 2.29 B, less 1.6% brokerage and taxes = 2.253 B.

Profit = 2.253 - 1.811 = 442 M.
Divide by 833 mfg slot hours = 530K / slot / hour.

But I still won't likely make them, since making them is the easy part.
The hard part is the moving the dread to a location where potential buyers are interested, and then actually selling it.
I mentioned that I have a brutal time finding highly profitable items, and I have an equally hard time selling.

Marketing is not my strong suit.
mark wittekind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-18 04:04:45 UTC
Keep in mind that the value of the BPOs or BPCs must also be accounted for. Even if you build with BPOs the time that they are building is time they aren't copying. So, it follows that a good pricing strategy is to include the value that you could have otherwise sold the BPC for (hull + parts).

The fact that you can't build them in high-sec cuts down on the numbers that build them and they are also a large ISK investment to produce in bulk so there are fewer produces of those than, say, battleships.

This leads to the supply and demand bit. It's harder to get into capital ship manufacturing because of the startup-costs, risk, time involved, logistics strain, and know-how so the supply is lower than the demand.