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An idea against afk cloaking

Author
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#21 - 2011-09-14 02:09:03 UTC
Ok your idea has been used a thousand times. So once again... no. Evil

Try this.

Your cloak is something designed to bend light around you so you look like you are invisible. Light is energy. Radio waves are also energy.

SO WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH WOULD YOU KEEP YOUR F***ING COMMS RADIO ON WHEN YOU'RE CLOAKED?!?!? In the military we call it noise and light discipline.

Removing local would be a bad idea. But you know how when you jump into a new system you are already temp cloaked? Well when you move or sit there too long or turn on your own cloak, you are visible. When you are cloaked you should disappear from local. When you are uncloaked you show back up on local. Even for that brief second while transitioning between temp cloak and your cloak.

This presents another problem though. Now you have a whole bunch of people cloaked up in local and noone is on local. You have no idea anyone is there. Hmm...

[green]Well; make it "optional".[/green}

The chat window is like a communications radio. When you cloak you should turn off your radio.

Think about it with physics.

Anything that is bending light energy is going to catch some interference and get a little fuzzy and shimmery when a large burst of radio waves is being blasted through it backwards. So make it so that when you cloak up you also click another button right next to it to "turn off your comms". Your chat window gets minimized, and your scan signature is reduced to normal cloaky levels... zero.

You will be immediately removed from local, and your icon will show up as faded in any other chat rooms you are joined to so your friends will know you are in silent running/cloaked mode. You can still receive messages in the chat window you just won't be able to chat out unless you turn on your comms system. And it will be an on/off system too; no waiting for something to warm up or boot up or some other such nonsense.

Once you turn it on again while you are cloaked you will show up in local again, and be able to "transmit" on all "frequencies" (chat rooms). Your scan signature will also go up a few points and your shields will shimmer slightly; kind of like when you turn on the microwave near an old school tv and get that snowy effect.

No changes will happen to the cloak itself. You will still be completely invisible and untargetable. There will be no doofy scan probes or decloaking devices that will completely negate cloaking all together. You wil simply be SLIGHTLY shiny for a few seconds while you call in your buddies.

This will make it so that a cloaker could be POTENTIALLY scanned down if he were stupid enough to leave his "radio" on too long, and in the case of the [red]"Oh my GOD it's an AFK CLOAKER (oh boohoo)...[/red]

Seeing as how AFK means... AWAY FROM THE FU**ING KEYBOARD DIP SH**!!!...

Which means they can't hurt anyone even themselves no matter how you say it or look at it...

AFK cloaker "problem" solved because you don't even know they are there (because they really aren't anyway) because you can't see them on local until they turn on their comms system again to call their buddies in to bust you up.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#22 - 2011-09-14 02:57:40 UTC
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Ok your idea has been used a thousand times. So once again... no. Evil

Try this.

Your cloak is something designed to bend light around you so you look like you are invisible. Light is energy. Radio waves are also energy.

SO WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH WOULD YOU KEEP YOUR F***ING COMMS RADIO ON WHEN YOU'RE CLOAKED?!?!? In the military we call it noise and light discipline.

Removing local would be a bad idea. But you know how when you jump into a new system you are already temp cloaked? Well when you move or sit there too long or turn on your own cloak, you are visible. When you are cloaked you should disappear from local. When you are uncloaked you show back up on local. Even for that brief second while transitioning between temp cloak and your cloak.

This presents another problem though. Now you have a whole bunch of people cloaked up in local and noone is on local. You have no idea anyone is there. Hmm...



Eh... where's the problem? This is only based on a small part if my idea, allow me to reiterate.

1. When you cloak, you're removed from local. You simply no longer show up in local, period.
2. When you cloak, you also lose the ability to use local. You can't see who's in local at all.
3. When you uncloak, to minimize the boost this could have to cyno's (simply appear from nowhere and light one off...), add a 30 or 60 second delay to being able to fire off a cyno.

You're close to stealing my idea, but missed a bit of it. Lol

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Raw Matters
Blind Berserker
Valkyrie Alliance
#23 - 2011-09-16 14:38:14 UTC
I see there is a lot of emotion against cloakers circling around.

On the idea to simply remove the cloaker from local. While this appears to be a solution against cloakers, the one with the cyno in the Haven (or similar) waiting afk for a ship won't be affected. Basically any cloaker aiming for destruction/interruption instead of intel doesn't really care about local. And in worst case even an intel cloaker could simply decloak, screenshot, recloak every minute and he has all the intel he wants. I don't think this would solve any issue except for making intel cloaking slightly more annoying.

@SGT FUNYOUN: I don't see why in a fictional game something should be technically impossible. I don't think something like "ionized Particles" can be send throughout a solar system anyways, but Eve is fiction and if CCP wants, they can just invent a fictional device that can just do exactly that.

In general my idea did not aim for making cloaking impossible or severely disrupt it, but to have a tool against those who are cloaking afk and only those. I am completely fine (in terms of game mechanics) if an active player scouts through a system cloaked and probably even hot-drops me with a cyno. The 24/7 afk cloaker however ruins the motivation for new 0.0 players to stay there as the gain in terms of ISK is only slightly better (unless you are in a really lucrative system, but you probably won't get that the first time you go to 0.0), but the risk is far greater.

Now while new players need to learn pvp and need to learn how to defend against "reds" jumping in and causing havoc, there is nothing that can be actively done against an afk cloaker. And until he takes the bait, the whole system cannot be used for anything. And honestly: not everyone has the time to play Eve 10h a day just to clear their 0.0 space of cloakers with a bait. And if you are lucky to actually catch them, there is a good chance that the next afk cloaker will be in your system the next day.
Emperor Salazar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-09-16 14:54:18 UTC
Just stop posting.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#25 - 2011-09-16 15:12:56 UTC
Raw Matters wrote:
I see there is a lot of emotion against cloakers circling around.

On the idea to simply remove the cloaker from local. While this appears to be a solution against cloakers, the one with the cyno in the Haven (or similar) waiting afk for a ship won't be affected. Basically any cloaker aiming for destruction/interruption instead of intel doesn't really care about local. And in worst case even an intel cloaker could simply decloak, screenshot, recloak every minute and he has all the intel he wants. I don't think this would solve any issue except for making intel cloaking slightly more annoying.



You missed the part about the delay in being able to light a cyno when uncloaking. Say the guy in the Haven uncloaks. If you're not botting, or maybe even if you are, you now have perhaps a 30 second or so delay before he can light the cyno. How you chose to react or defend against it at that point is up to you, but you have time.

Raw Matters wrote:
I don't think...


This has been established.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#26 - 2011-09-16 19:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SGT FUNYOUN
Hmmm. So your griping about the cyno timer huh? Got a better idea. How about you learn to look around and have team of battleships like everyone else to come in and stomp whatever pops through that hole.

The point of a cloak is surprise attack and stealth. A delay in anything would totally negate the whole COV ERT OPERATIONS system.

so no.

You are once again...

wrong.

Now go back to playing WOW.
Veronica Kerrigan
VKCorp 2.0
#27 - 2011-09-17 05:34:23 UTC
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Technical mumbo Jumbo I don't want to fully quote.



Actually, comms in eve are done through paired atoms, meaning they communicate directly to the concord database that administers communications. That is why you can see everyone in local, because it is a list that concord keeps on every system at all times.
Raw Matters
Blind Berserker
Valkyrie Alliance
#28 - 2011-09-18 12:21:52 UTC
As most of the arguments against my idea have now turned into personal insults, I take this as a sign that my idea probably isn't that bad after all.

Thanks for the feedback!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2011-09-18 12:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Raw Matters wrote:
there is nothing that can be actively done against an afk cloaker
Seems appropriate since they can't actively do anything to you.

Your idea is bad for a very simple reason: it's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist (or, if you like, you're trying to fix a problem within you by “fixing” someone else).
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#30 - 2011-09-19 16:34:50 UTC
:supported: OP except the cooldown seems a bit lengthy. :shrug: other posts about keeping it simple have a good point.

All strategies have a counter to them, but are the counters to afk cloaked-pilots actually feasible? Something one player can use to either find the afk cloaking pilot, or even avoid discovery all together?

Meaning, any targets the afk cloaker looks for use something to make themselves somehow invisible/cloaked/undetectable. Those targets that do not would be easier to kill and more likely to die. Does that make sense?
Kanexus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2011-09-20 06:38:17 UTC
eve is trying to hard to explain why things work...in other words being too realistic (if that is possible)

just make cloak have time limit...like 20 mins and you have another meter that is slowly decreasing..
and cloaking and uncloaking make it take time like 30 secs if you uncloak and try to recloak....would give people enough time to try to find you at least
Saphyrie
Nefantar Expeditionary Force
#32 - 2011-09-22 20:34:09 UTC
Quote:
1. When you cloak, you're removed from local. You simply no longer show up in local, period.


I am afraid I fail to see how making it easier for cloakers and their black ops buddies to prey on defenseless targets is going to make things better.
shadowace00007
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Federation Uprising
#33 - 2011-09-22 20:43:22 UTC
*Normal troll speak*

-1 You don't fix what is not broken. It ends up like my old Tv. broken and useless.

Born Amarrian Raised Minmatar.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#34 - 2011-09-22 21:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Raw Matters wrote:
I see there is a lot of emotion against cloakers circling around.


Emotional response = uneducated knee jerk reaction.


Quote:
On the idea to simply remove the cloaker from local. While this appears to be a solution against cloakers, the one with the cyno in the Haven (or similar) waiting afk for a ship won't be affected. Basically any cloaker aiming for destruction/interruption instead of intel doesn't really care about local. And in worst case even an intel cloaker could simply decloak, screenshot, recloak every minute and he has all the intel he wants. I don't think this would solve any issue except for making intel cloaking slightly more annoying.


what? where's the problem here? there is no issue in this anywhere. I beg you to remember we're not trying to "combat cloaking". the subject is all those afkers .... I see no reason why anyone should be able to scan down a cloaked vessel.. or why we need a captcha or pos module decloak on cue nerf to cloaking when AFK cloaking is about someone not playing the game.. yes removal from local does resolve the issue. plus it makes cloaking what it should have been in the beginning, complete stealth.. no free local intel.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#35 - 2011-09-22 21:47:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Saphyrie wrote:
Quote:
1. When you cloak, you're removed from local. You simply no longer show up in local, period.


I am afraid I fail to see how making it easier for cloakers and their black ops buddies to prey on defenseless targets is going to make things better.



no more emotional reactions in forums about afk cloakers! they won't see them.. and as far and making things "easier for the cloaker" remember that no cloak local makes things harder for the cloaked ganker as well. since he doesn't know who is cloaked and sitting waiting to help set a trap for him. the bottom line is you can do nothing while cloaked but watch... to do anything active you have to decloak and deal with time delays... even setting out probes (which can't be cloaked) to scan for targets requires decloak, and then the probes are a dead giveaway someone is serach for you.

Removing cloaked from local is the best idea all the way around. The alternative idea that is next nearest is "do nothing".

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Sonya Hyde
Tribal Euphoria
#36 - 2011-09-23 01:27:29 UTC
Without a doubt afk cloakers can be the worse type of player in the game. And yes, many people are consantly trown off by a 24/7 cloaker that does nothing more than stay cloaked within your system for 3 weeks.

1. I believe that something has to be done to remove theior ability to be a non-active pilot. It is simply idiotic to sit in someone elses sytem for a week without even moving your ship. I see the point of reducing the effectiveness of military and industrial levels of a system.
2. Sitting in a system for a week (or longer) is too much. That's what lowsec is for. Camp a gate and go for the freighters carrying the big goods. Or venturing into nullsec for a rorq kill. Sitting in one place has to stop unless you are active.
3. I see nothing wrong at all with making a pilot more active. A module or even an I-HUB upgrade would be the best solution.

I like this idea. Nerf or not. If you're not active you should at least make the pilot become uncloaked for 5-10 minutes for every hour that they use cloak. Something to insure that a pilot is actually using the account and not wasting others time that would otherwise be used in a much more constructive manner. You still have the ability to pirate all you want but 24/7, 7 days a week is a bit too much.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#37 - 2011-09-23 02:04:56 UTC
Sonya Hyde wrote:
Without a doubt afk cloakers can be the worse type of player in the game. And yes, many people are consantly trown off by a 24/7 cloaker that does nothing more than stay cloaked within your system for 3 weeks.

1. I believe that something has to be done to remove theior ability to be a non-active pilot. It is simply idiotic to sit in someone elses sytem for a week without even moving your ship. I see the point of reducing the effectiveness of military and industrial levels of a system.
2. Sitting in a system for a week (or longer) is too much. That's what lowsec is for. Camp a gate and go for the freighters carrying the big goods. Or venturing into nullsec for a rorq kill. Sitting in one place has to stop unless you are active.
3. I see nothing wrong at all with making a pilot more active. A module or even an I-HUB upgrade would be the best solution.

I like this idea. Nerf or not. If you're not active you should at least make the pilot become uncloaked for 5-10 minutes for every hour that they use cloak. Something to insure that a pilot is actually using the account and not wasting others time that would otherwise be used in a much more constructive manner. You still have the ability to pirate all you want but 24/7, 7 days a week is a bit too much.


Every time you're docked up in a station and afk I can't do anything about it. I can't get the kill, I never know when or if you'll undock. They need something to ejects people from stations that have been afk for too long.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#38 - 2011-09-23 11:52:19 UTC
Saphyrie wrote:
The reason people cant stand it, is because ONE bozo can effectively shut down an entire system to mining/plex running by remaining in the system cloaked. All he has to do is kill one guy and then just stay there. No one will go out because you cant tell where he is, if he's afk or not.

Sounds like your system does not have enough pilots with the balls to be in low/zero sec.



Saphyrie wrote:
It's not fair that one pilot NOT EVEN PLAYING THE FRICKING GAME can shut down an entire star system with his presense.

Haha, maybe you should get your mum to send him an evemail to tell him to stop!

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-09-23 18:52:01 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Crappy idea, breaks cloaks.

Simplest "fix" to the afk cloaker... have them disappear from local when they cloak. Also have then be unable to see local when cloaked... no free system-wide intel

Finally, have a 30 second or so delay before you can lite a cyno when decloaking.

Bam. Simple, effective, makes cloaks more true and intel more active. Send isk.


This tbh. CCP Implement uncloak cyno delay please.


Saphyrie wrote:
I am afraid I fail to see how making it easier for cloakers and their black ops buddies to prey on defenseless targets is going to make things better.


Read the part about cyno delay. This makes it harder for bridged recons/t3 to gank hulks.
Solinuas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-09-23 19:55:08 UTC
Well you guys are all talking about nullsec, however its just as common in highsec, and prolly even more irritating, so to get a good solution it needs to work in all sec, what needs to happen is that after an hour of continuous cloak, your module turns off, and i sort of agree with the no local, i think they should still have local but cant d-scan, as one would assume that scanning while cloaked would be fairly obvious, but remaining connected to the subspace network wouldnt, as far as i know eves comns are a quantum teleportation thing I.E. not affected by cloaking, warping etc, theoreticaly it shouldnt even be affected by WH space but thats off topic now